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Oculus Spirit [96850]
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Heisman Winner [140517]
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I see the AD's propaganda machine is in full effect.***
Mar 9, 2017, 8:34 AM
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CU Medallion [61840]
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bob is machine ... well, that explains a lot.***
Mar 10, 2017, 10:20 AM
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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How do they expect us to fire Brownell,
Mar 9, 2017, 8:44 AM
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When we still haven't fired Batson?
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Orange Blooded [4559]
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Re: It amazes me that some of you people want to fire the guy
Mar 9, 2017, 8:47 AM
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Very skewed stat considering Ellis played against less ACC teams than Brownell. Nice try though.
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Oculus Spirit [96850]
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Not true. Ellis was 56-90 in ACC games and Brownell
Mar 9, 2017, 8:51 AM
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is 56-66. Therefore, Ellis played against 146 ACC teams and Brownell has played against 122 ACC teams.
Nice try though.
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All-In [40100]
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Your logic and crafty words don't fool me bob.
Mar 9, 2017, 9:01 AM
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Posts like this are why I hardly ever tnet anymore.
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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Re: Your logic and crafty words don't fool me bob.
Mar 9, 2017, 9:08 AM
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^^^^ notlovingit
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All-In [40100]
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^^^This guy gets it***
Mar 9, 2017, 9:11 AM
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Heisman Winner [134461]
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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I see your notbuyingit and raise you a
Mar 9, 2017, 9:39 AM
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Hardlypostingit
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Heisman Winner [134461]
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Re: I see your notbuyingit and raise you a
Mar 9, 2017, 9:44 AM
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I fold! 
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: I see your notbuyingit and raise you a
Mar 9, 2017, 10:20 AM
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Supposed to be I fold it ??
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Just because we haven't experienced great success ...
Mar 9, 2017, 8:54 AM
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in the past, doesn't we we can't going forward, and if that is, in fact, the expectation, I have serious doubts that Brad Brownell is the coach who can take us there.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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There shouldn't be any doubts at this point
Mar 9, 2017, 9:57 AM
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about what Brownell can do from a recruiting and coaching standpoint. He's mediocre at best in both.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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I completely agree***
Mar 9, 2017, 10:07 AM
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1st Rounder [648]
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CU Medallion [67831]
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Re: It amazes me that some of you people want to fire the guy
Mar 9, 2017, 9:00 AM
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longevity of participation award
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Cliff Ellis got fired.***
Mar 9, 2017, 9:05 AM
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Oculus Spirit [96850]
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And hopefully we learned a valuable lesson from that***
Mar 9, 2017, 9:08 AM
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: And hopefully we learned a valuable lesson from that***
Mar 9, 2017, 9:10 AM
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Cliff Ellis was a better recruiter than Brad Brownell.
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Oculus Spirit [96850]
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And he had some run-ins with the NCAA at Clemson and at
Mar 9, 2017, 9:13 AM
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Auburn.
He also had a graduation rate of less than 30% IIRC.
But a very likable guy for sure.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: And he had some run-ins with the NCAA at Clemson and at
Mar 9, 2017, 9:33 AM
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As bad as this program is,I could care less about the NCAA issues. Basketball recruiting is a dirty game not meant for coaches who are afraid to get their hands dirty.
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110%er [8681]
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Legend [16907]
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Re: And hopefully we learned a valuable lesson from that***
Mar 9, 2017, 9:11 AM
[ in reply to And hopefully we learned a valuable lesson from that*** ] |
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His replacement was Rick Barnes which was a pretty good upgrade. When we fired Shyatt, Purnell was a pretty good upgrade. If anything, the message should be that when we fire coaches we make decent improvement. When we let coaches get away we move backwards.
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Heisman Winner [140517]
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We should fire the next coach that gets us to the tournament
Mar 9, 2017, 9:17 AM
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That would almost guarantee a final four appearance under the replacement coach.
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All-In [26322]
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All-In [27366]
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It amazes me that he was allowed to stay around long enough
Mar 9, 2017, 9:09 AM
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to get that many wins.
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All-TigerNet [11472]
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well, if Brad...
Mar 9, 2017, 9:20 AM
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Has that good of an ACC record, why hasn't he gone to more NCAATs? There is the problem?
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Legend [18407]
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Re: well, if Brad...
Mar 9, 2017, 9:29 AM
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His 7 year record:
Overall ACC
22-12 t4 - ncaa (op's recruits)
16-15 7
13-18 11
23-13 6 - NIT
16-15 9
17-14 t7
16-14 13
IMO this speaks for itself. Keep in mind this is against pretty weak competition first 11 games of each year. This year we did have somewhat of an upgrade but still, if you're happy with this, keep him and extend his contract.
True, he's recruited at a good level and actually been recruiting pretty good the last few years but then look what he produces with said "talent" - nothing.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: well, if Brad...
Mar 10, 2017, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to well, if Brad... ] |
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Agreed! Ellis made more trips to the big dance. So did OP and Barnes. 1 in 7 years? Pathetic!
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Legend [18407]
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above post was meant for main thread here - sorry***
Mar 9, 2017, 9:31 AM
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His 7 year record:
Overall ACC
22-12 t4 - ncaa (op's recruits)
16-15 7
13-18 11
23-13 6 - NIT
16-15 9
17-14 t7
16-14 13
IMO this speaks for itself. Keep in mind this is against pretty weak competition first 11 games of each year. This year we did have somewhat of an upgrade but still, if you're happy with this, keep him and extend his contract.
True, he's recruited at a good level and actually been recruiting pretty good the last few years but then look what he produces with said "talent" - nothing.
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Team Captain [465]
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Ellis did this against team with MJ, Worthy,Sampson etc***
Mar 9, 2017, 9:45 AM
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Ellis did this against team with MJ, Worthy,Sampson etc***
Mar 9, 2017, 10:20 AM
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^^^^^ Got that right ^^^^^
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All-TigerNet [10210]
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imagine how fast another coach could have reached that!***
Mar 10, 2017, 6:51 AM
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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I take it...
Mar 10, 2017, 7:17 AM
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You don't care much for Bask.?
#21
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Heisman Winner [140517]
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He doesn't even like sports.***
Mar 10, 2017, 10:21 AM
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110%er [6281]
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Re: It amazes me that some of you people want to fire the guy
Mar 10, 2017, 7:55 AM
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Maybe we want to be better than .500 in conference. Just because BB has done better than others in the past does not mean it is good enough.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Yep
Mar 10, 2017, 9:52 AM
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When I saw this I knew they were keeping him.
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CU Medallion [61840]
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Yeah, well, Squiggy beat Clemson when he coached at
Mar 10, 2017, 10:22 AM
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Coastal Carolina.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: It amazes me that some of you people want to fire the guy
Mar 10, 2017, 10:38 AM
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so 8 wins a year is just fine. Never in the NCAA tourn is just fine.Just HOW LOW DO U WANT TO GO??????????
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All-In [44048]
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Putting Brownell's coaching in perspective
Mar 10, 2017, 10:40 AM
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Here are the last 10 basketball coaches we have had at Clemson:
1946-1956 Banks McFadden: 85-131 (.394) overall, 46-95 (.326) in conference play
1956-1962 Press Maravich: 55-96 (.364) overall, 25-59 (.298) in conference play
1962-1970 Bobby Roberts: 82-116 (.414) overall, 41-71 (.366) in conference play
1970-1975 Tates Locke: 62-70 (.455) overall, 20-42 (.323) in conference play
1975-1984 Bill Foster: 156-106 (.595) overall, 44-74 (.373) in conference play
1984-1994 Cliff Ellis: 177-128 (.580) overall, 56-90 (.384) in conference play
1994-1998 Rick Barnes: 74-48 (.607) overall, 28-36 (.438) in conference play
1998-2003 Larry Shyatt: 70-84 (.455) overall, 20-60 (.250) in conference play
2003-2010 Oliver Purnell: 138-88 (.611) overall, 52-60 (.464) in conference play
2010-present Brad Brownell: 124-102 (.549) overall, 56-66 (.459) in conference play
Brad's overall winning percentage at Clemson is comparable to those of Foster, Ellis, Barnes, and Purnell. I would argue that our non-conference schedule now is much tougher than it was under Foster, Ellis, or Barnes. There are now many good teams, including those at the mid-major level, which you did not have 20+ years ago.
Brad's ACC winning percentage is better than all of them except for Purnell, who holds a 0.005 advantage. The ACC of today is larger than it has ever been, and some of those additions are outstanding and some have been mediocre. Top to bottom, the ACC is as strong now as it has ever been.
Let's also remember that Cliff Ellis was fired because his teams were too inconsistent, and because he was in trouble with the NCAA. We ultimately had to vacate our wins from the 1990 NCAA Tournament (the Sweet Sixteen team that lost to UConn) due to violations. That taints his tenure, for sure.
On that note, Tates Locke cheated and got us in trouble. Foster owes a lot of his success to players illegally recruited by Locke. That cheating taints the careers of both Locke and Foster, to a degree.
Barnes ran a clean program and won. He was an outstanding coach, and he had built a very good program. It is too bad he chose not to stay at Clemson. If he did it, there is no reason why we shouldn't strive for that success again.
Brownell has not performed to the level of Purnell overall, but I would argue that the situation he inherited from Purnell was not nearly as good as it appeared on the surface. There were a lot of things going on behind the scenes at that time, including one non-existant recruiting class from Purnell as well as multiple players who were prepared to transfer out if Purnell remained the coach. I liked Purnell a lot, and he is definitely a great program builder, but I feel like he maxed out at Clemson and knew that some significant regression was forthcoming in a year or two - thus he left for DePaul.
With that said, it is year 7 of the Brownell era and the situation he inherited then is not an issue now. We aren't where we want to be, but I do think it is important to look at things in context. It's not nearly as simple as "Brownell inherited an NCAA team and ran it into the ground."
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