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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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How about instead of whining...
Mar 8, 2020, 9:20 AM
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about everything Trump did you tell us all what you will do tomorrow...onto the end of the flu season.
So what would you do to stop this virus?
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: How about instead of whining...
Mar 8, 2020, 9:50 AM
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I do not blame Trump for it, not at all. We lost any hope of containment when borders were not shut down back in December to all incoming travellers. If at the time we had stopped foreign travel to the USA and required quarantine of citizens returning we had a shot.
Based upon WHO/CDC quidelines that was deemed so very un-PC we allowed ourselves to be screwed. Now we gotta deal with the outcomes.
Being that a vaccine is at least 12-18 months out that leaves a lot of problems to deal with right now. Much like the Spanish flu, this may recede in warmer months and is likely to come back with a vengence as it gets to traditional cold/flu season again.
I was required to login to a meeting where the Chief Medical guy said given a choice of getting the regular flu or COVID-19 you would be better with regular flu I logged off. They tracked attendance and asked why, told them either the guy was a liar, propagandist or just plain could not number well so to me he was useless.
Widespread testing of citizens, those testing positive shall be given home quarantine and those that fail to self isolate are put in mandatory quarantine where they have to comply. You can clean public areas till you run out of dollars on the money tree but that lasts as 100% only till the next person touches the surface. Testing will also have to be done multiple times due to the unknown incubation periods.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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I was first to say 'SLAM THE DOOR!'
Mar 8, 2020, 10:59 AM
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That was my gut reaction when I first learned of this virus.
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Oculus Spirit [97663]
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You don't stop it. You can't stop it. We all know that.
Mar 8, 2020, 10:46 AM
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WHO knows that. They also know it's a pandemic. And everyone knows the pain will be felt in the wallet, which is our #1 priority in the US. Our leaders are all wealthy, and have spent decades creating a market-based debt-driven global system dependent on markets, stagnant wages, low inflation, and cheap foreign labor. We are governed by those who stand the most to lose if the markets crater. We all stand to lose really because they've become leaders by mortgaging our current prosperity on decades of easy debt. To them the meltdown of our debt-driven economy is worse than the deaths of 1%, 5%, even 10% of Americans.
This explains much of Trump's reaction, and lack of action. It's not incompetence, it's greed.
Your best bet is do do something like Italy is starting to do, and China has done, to minimize the damage. Other option is to deny, obfuscate, and plow ahead and hope you can keep the charade going enough to keep our debt from being called. The danger Trump sees, I promise you, is the danger of an economic collapse. He thinks that will cost him the election, when his inaction to avoid an economic collapse, may be the real culprit. Time will tell. But Trump, and most of our media, and many people (mostly wealthy), live in a world where they judge this virus by the economic impact. But people, when they get sick, don't care about the economy. They care about their families, loved ones, parents, children, etc. We are the most money-driven nation in the history of history, and any pandemic/illness will absolutely humble that worldview.
China didn't do what they did as an overreaction. Italy is just now learning that. Iran has learned that. South Korea is learning that. We will learn that too. This has the capability of collapsing our economy, far worse than the mortgage crisis did. Our best bet is for states and local governments to take control, because they will respond in the interests of their citizens, and not in the interests of the markets and global trade. Most of the cases we know about have been the result of states, local universities, private labs, etc. taking control, ignoring CDC mandates and regulations, and doing their jobs. Hopefully, this will help people understand the corruption of Washington and appreciate the remnants of republican government we have still in place, which are the first to respond, and will mount the best responses. People look to Washington and federal leaders for FAR too much, while ignoring the local governments that actually have so much larger impact on their lives than they're allowed to believe b those who covet power/wealth the most.
FIVE people have been tested for coronavirus in SC. All five tested by DHEC. 2 were positive. We still don't have them "confirmed" by the CDC. The numbers you see, a large portion are not "confirmed" by the CDC. In fact, most cases "confirmed" by the CDC were confirmations of positive tests conducted by states/universities, etc. No "confirmed" cases, no deaths, no deaths, we're "controlling" it, don't manic. Markets, rest assured we have it under control. That's what's happening, but it won't last.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Tell me how and why this is different than the swine flu?
Mar 8, 2020, 11:03 AM
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Compare and contrast and you'll see we have certain advantages now that we didn't enjoy with the swine flu.
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Oculus Spirit [97663]
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It's a totally different type of virus, for starters
Mar 8, 2020, 11:33 AM
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Second, it's many times more deadly at the lowest estimates, than the Swine Flu's highest estimates. So far it is on par with the 1918 Spanish flu at a minimum.
We can make a swine flu vaccine. We did so in just 5 months, and from that point forward we could include it in seasonal flu vaccines. The rate of pneumonia complications from this are many times greater than Swine flu. Something like 40% of cases get clinical pneumonia. Swine flu has far fewer pneumonia complications. The WHO announced the Swine flu as a pandemic long before it got to the level we are at now with this. This virus is more similar to the common cold and HIV than influenza, which is why we can't create a vaccine for it. Our markets are more dependent than ever on foreign trade, much more than in 2009 even, with China being the biggest gainer. You see other countries implementing measures that weren't implemented with the Swine flu. China didn't shutter their economy for the Swine flu. ####, they tried to hide it at first. Italy didn't either. Iran didn't shut down Holy Sites. Mecca wasn't closed. Healthcare systems didn't collapse from swine flu, as they have in northern Italy, Iran, South Korea, and China.
It's worse than the flu, it's worse than the original Swine flu pandemic, which was 2X as bad as prior seasonal flu. How much worse? Who knows. But at this point it's clear it is. And probably the biggest difference is it last twice as long as the flu, at a minimum. It takes 2-3 weeks to recover. Something like 40% of confirmed cases develop pneumonia. That's the real killer. Of those, roughly half becomes severe. Keep in mind "mild" by Chinese standards, means any illness up to the point of needing supplemental oxygen. You can have it, AND pneumonia, and still be a clinically "mild" case. And it comes from a family of viruses from which we have never created a vaccine, because we can't. China didn't ban funerals and mandate cremation for swine flu victims. China didn't quarantine millions (Italy now too) because of swine flu.
Other than those minor differences, believe it is the same at your own peril. Believe it's even in the same ballpark at your own peril. The only question is how much worse it actually is.
In light of this information, please tell me the advantages we have now? It's a good thing we have less hospital beds in the US now than in the 1970's when we had half the current population. Good thing healthcare has gotten so affordable. Please, list the advantages.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Woah.
Mar 8, 2020, 2:06 PM
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With this being in its infancy here in America and the only comparable data being SOKO 'estimate,' are more opinion based than fact unless you use the SOKO information as a basis. Your entire post was based on speculations when in fact there has yet to be enough testing done in the US to even begin to make such claims.
I'm preparing for the worst. What I believe is not related to my future experience with this flu. Neither is yours. Everyone has been fairly warned how to behave during these tough times. Plenty of hype has scared the living daylights out of enough people to radically change the way they address this flu.
Advantages---
We saw this coming. As I've said all along we should have shut down casual travel to the US and allowed only our citizens to enter. Nevertheless, Trump has reacted much quicker than folks were comfortable with.
China was blindsided as was nearly all Asian nations. China was the center of the epidemic which we are not. China may have had multimillion cases in full blossom before they realized there was a problem. Wuhan is reported to have 7 million residents and people were traveling to celebrate the Chinese new year at the time.
We have some significant advantages over China and that situation. I can't believe you're using a third world country run by communist as a sample worthy of comparison. Imagine that.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Just came across this article that has good info
Mar 8, 2020, 2:54 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97663]
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By the standards China uses, yes, mild is everything
Mar 8, 2020, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's a totally different type of virus, for starters ] |
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up to needing supplemental oxygen (and consequently hospitalization).
So yeah, 80% of cases don't need supplemental oxygen or hospital admission. Some of those 80% have only VERY minor symptoms. Sniffles, maybe not even any fever.
Stats from the WHO from the largest study to date on the disease:
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf
The signs, symptoms, disease progression and severity
Symptoms of COVID-19 are non-specific and the disease presentation can range from no
symptoms (asymptomatic) to severe pneumonia and death. As of 20 February 2020 and
12
based on 55924 laboratory confirmed cases, typical signs and symptoms include: fever
(87.9%), dry cough (67.7%), fatigue (38.1%), sputum production (33.4%), shortness of breath
(18.6%), sore throat (13.9%), headache (13.6%), myalgia or arthralgia (14.8%), chills (11.4%),
nausea or vomiting (5.0%), nasal congestion (4.8%), diarrhea (3.7%), and hemoptysis (0.9%),
and conjunctival congestion (0.8%).
People with COVID-19 generally develop signs and symptoms, including mild respiratory
symptoms and fever, on an average of 5-6 days after infection (mean incubation period 5-6
days, range 1-14 days).
Most people infected with COVID-19 virus have mild disease and recover. Approximately
80% of laboratory confirmed patients have had mild to moderate disease, which includes
non-pneumonia and pneumonia cases, 13.8% have severe disease (dyspnea, respiratory
frequency ?30/minute, blood oxygen saturation ?93%, PaO2/FiO2 ratio <300, and/or lung
infiltrates >50% of the lung field within 24-48 hours) and 6.1% are critical (respiratory
failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction/failure). Asymptomatic infection
has been reported, but the majority of the relatively rare cases who are asymptomatic on
the date of identification/report went on to develop disease. The proportion of truly
asymptomatic infections is unclear but appears to be relatively rare and does not appear to
be a major driver of transmission.
Individuals at highest risk for severe disease and death include people aged over 60 years
and those with underlying conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, cardiovascular
disease, chronic respiratory disease and cancer. Disease in children appears to be relatively
rare and mild with approximately 2.4% of the total reported cases reported amongst
individuals aged under 19 years. A very small proportion of those aged under 19 years have
developed severe (2.5%) or critical disease (0.2%).
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Rock Defender [53]
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It's really bizarre
Mar 8, 2020, 5:14 PM
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Hall of Famer [24686]
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Oculus Spirit [97663]
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110%er [6101]
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Re: How about instead of whining...
Mar 8, 2020, 10:57 AM
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If it was real the WHO would have triggered their bond issues as they do in emergencies. They have yet to do so.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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I trust nothing coming from the WHO.
Mar 8, 2020, 11:05 AM
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Those incompetents gave us the test kits which failed. 90%+ of their budget is spend on bureaucrats touring the world and playing drinking games.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: I trust nothing coming from the WHO.
Mar 8, 2020, 11:09 AM
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It’s another swamp.
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Hall of Famer [24686]
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BS... The tests' reagent was supplied thru IRR, a sublet
Mar 8, 2020, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to I trust nothing coming from the WHO. ] |
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of the CDC... If anything, IRR would have been supplying reagents to the WHO... It was CDC's in-house mistake.
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All-TigerNet [10853]
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Attended church this morning...
Mar 8, 2020, 11:58 AM
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Attendance was around 50% of what it usually is and it was said it was due to the time change.
Then we were told to greet those around us...and as everyone started shaking hands, I realized another reason attendance was probably down...
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All-In [34486]
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If I were the President of the United States, I would at
Mar 8, 2020, 3:11 PM
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least be infinitesimally obligated to answer this question.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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I’d hold a presser in the Oval Office bathroom
Mar 8, 2020, 7:44 PM
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And teach people to wash their #### hands!
It’s personal hygiene.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: How about instead of whining...
Mar 8, 2020, 10:02 PM
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I'd make up lies about having more test kits than we do. Then I'd refer to the test kits as "beautiful" and "perfect," and I'd wrap up by comparing the perfect test kits with my perfect phone call to Ukraine.
That ought to work.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Thank you, President Trump.
Mar 9, 2020, 1:30 AM
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If you can find spooneye please ask him what he would do. I know he's a nice guy.
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