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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Heisman Winner [119558]
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Germans
Jun 21, 2020, 8:40 PM
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Posted a week ago.......
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Here's the truth for the fourth time.
Jun 21, 2020, 8:46 PM
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Why ya wanna mess up the narrative with you know like a study?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Here is the problem...
Jun 21, 2020, 8:56 PM
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all that maybe absolutely true. So how are you going to get people who feel marginalized to talk about it?
Shove it down their throat like Trump?
I do not believe truth is relative, but there is such a thing as experiential perspective. Unfortunately, it's very hard to document and have scientific studies for the different treatment black people receive from police. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't really matter. I have enough acquaintances and friends who tell me this who I trust that have to believe and acknowledge their reality.
Do I think cries of racism are often overplayed? Yes. Do I think people with different agendas hijack otherwise meaningful movements? Yes.
However, I think trying to shout over them and "shake them into reality" won't get anybody anywhere.
I tend to go with idea that truth without grace is mean, grace without truth is meaningless, but truth with grace shows love.
Maybe being hard-nosed is the right way. Just seems we'll never come together if we continually throw grenades at each other.
I tend to offend both sides. And let me be clear, I am not moderate, I am conservative.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Here is the problem...
Jun 21, 2020, 9:00 PM
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Well the entire narrative that it is society and white folks alone that needs to change is misguided. Time for some introspective pondering on that side too.
Like I have said, a real honest discussion is gonna hurt feelings on both sides.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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it's gotta start with choosing to not be offended...
Jun 21, 2020, 9:06 PM
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And somebody has to choose to be humble and take that first step.
But I will say, something has to happen to stop this lawless momentum.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: it's gotta start with choosing to not be offended...
Jun 21, 2020, 9:12 PM
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Not offended at all but have tired of the narrative currently that black folks have no need to spend time looking at their own issues.
While some , maybe more than some has come from black protesters, the majority of lawlessness has come from white guilt punks.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Forgive me if you thought I was saying you were offended...
Jun 21, 2020, 9:18 PM
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I was saying both sides need to choose to quit being offended.
That's certainly not easy. This is a lot more complicated than statistics and misconceptions. These are things that have been buried a long, long time.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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I agree. I know African Americans are screaming for change,
Jun 22, 2020, 6:41 AM
[ in reply to Here is the problem... ] |
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and I think we are going to get it. But, while action is important, I think more than anything, black people want and deserve to be heard. Black people and white people undoubtedly experience and perceive 2020 America very differently. We'll have plenty of time to argue over what is objective fact and what is not, but it all starts with acknowledging the different experiences and perceptions as valid and legitimate.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I agree with you 98% and stand corrected for being...
Jun 22, 2020, 8:52 AM
[ in reply to Here is the problem... ] |
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overly aggressive.
However, there is no 'maybe,' about the truth of those particular statistics. They are exhaustive and comprehensive other than identifying whether the cops who killed blacks were black or white.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Here is the problem...
Jun 22, 2020, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to Here is the problem... ] |
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Very well put.
And you offended me. 
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All-In [42000]
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There are overwhelming problems with this analysis
Jun 21, 2020, 9:26 PM
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First, this:
The bad news, Cesario said, is that internal policy changes, such as diversifying police forces, may not reduce shootings of minority citizens.
Next, the article argues that most police shootings are justified because the one being shot attacked police most of the time. Herein lies the major problem: They're basing their data on the final conclusion of police or the state police who investigated the shooting. That is the whole crux of this argument. Police and those who investigate them are often times not honest about reasons for shooting suspects, white or black.
Putting race aside, police in America overwhelmingly shoot and kill more people than any other advanced nation. Are we really going to argue that America is leaps and bounds more loaded with violent and dangerous people who must be shot and killed? Or is perhaps the problem with our police?
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Legend [17857]
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Have you ever spent time with a police officer on duty?
Jun 21, 2020, 9:38 PM
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There is more than one way to answer your question and put an end to speculation. The best way is to ride with an officer.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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if you offer any other perspective...
Jun 21, 2020, 9:44 PM
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it's because you watch Fox News
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Legend [17857]
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Re: if you offer any other perspective...
Jun 21, 2020, 10:37 PM
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Actually, I don't even watch local news that much anymore. I get all the news here. I even get my opinions given to me too.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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that doesn't matter...
Jun 21, 2020, 10:49 PM
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I don't either
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All-In [42000]
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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So the cities are burning from rioters who loot businesses..
Jun 22, 2020, 9:13 AM
[ in reply to There are overwhelming problems with this analysis ] |
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yet not one sign among the protest says 'Quit stopping black people only because they are black?'
Yeah, but no. The signs say 'STOP KILLING US!' The protest doesn't pass Biden's sniff test.
What you brought up is another problem but it isn't the one being dealt with right now.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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All-In [42000]
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Huh?***
Jun 22, 2020, 10:44 AM
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All-In [48782]
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Every time someone sues the police for overreach and
Jun 22, 2020, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to There are overwhelming problems with this analysis ] |
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brutality, typically under 1983, the evidence is completely different from the official police account of what happened. Every time there is a police shooting with no video evidence (and even when there is video) the first narrative from the cops is literally textbook. Like, Knock and announce, wait ten seconds, knock and announce again, wait ten seconds, look in window and see someone gathering stuff that could be weapons, called in the ram, busted down the door, entered and announced identity and purpose, were fired upon returned fire.
Video - Knock, bust down door, start shooting.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Here's the truth for the fourth time.
Jun 21, 2020, 11:15 PM
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i'm not gonna argue any the stats.
ok so lemme ax you this. the b!tch in Nyc that called the police on the blk dude watching birds.....i'd like to know why you think she purposely said "an African American man is attacking me"? or whatever her exact words they included African American man. why do you think she said that?
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CU Medallion [56694]
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Re: Here's the truth for the fourth time.
Jun 22, 2020, 3:12 AM
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You think a black girl in the same situation would have called 911 and not said “a white man” was threatening her? You think she would have left out the descriptive word “white?” Or maybe leave out “man” too, since that’s biased and plays on the stereotype that men are more violent, and just say a human was threatening her?
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110%er [7182]
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Re: Here's the truth for the fourth time.
Jun 21, 2020, 11:21 PM
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Are you arguing that maybe police armed with weapons aren't always the best response to a 911 call?
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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No, the stats show that whites are disproportionately...
Jun 22, 2020, 8:56 AM
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killed by cops. Reckon that's why so many whites are marching for equal justice?
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110%er [7182]
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Re: No, the stats show that whites are disproportionately...
Jun 22, 2020, 9:57 AM
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Ummm..what? Without any idea of what you're talking about, I'm going to take a guess that you're referring to raw numbers. That's not stats. Black males are around 2.5 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a white male.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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The study is from MSU and Maryland.
Jun 22, 2020, 10:21 AM
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It would be nice to converse with someone who actually reads a study before they take a position on the findings of the study.
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110%er [7182]
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I can't believe I am actually replying to this.
Jun 22, 2020, 11:46 AM
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First off, you didn't even link the study. That's a news release with quotes from the study. If you were to use that to show your work and tell me where you're getting your numbers from, you can't because they're not there. Here's the study:
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877
Second, they authors had to put a disclaimer that their findings are being disputed. That's how peer review works. "Although the authors addressed the issues raised in a reply, they are currently reanalyzing data to more directly address the criticism." That's a very nice way of saying that they ###### up. Here's the criticism of the MSU study:
https://www.pnas.org/content/117/3/1261
Finally, their conclusion is basically just normal systemic racism. If you think minorities being more likely to be poor isn't part of the problem, you need to do some self-reflection.
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All-In [46768]
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So from what I'm gathering is
Jun 22, 2020, 9:59 AM
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there aren't enough black people dying to justify changing the system.
Got it.
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