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I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions
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I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions


May 9, 2020, 9:18 AM

Especially from lefti....er, liberals in here.
I think he is hitting on something here, but it’s not black & white...
https://www.westernjournal.com/herman-cain-lockdown-vs-reopening-become-left-vs-right-issue/

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Re: I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions


May 9, 2020, 9:31 AM

The left cried about everything Trump has done since he won the nomination including shutting down travel from China and Europe and resisted everything Trump did between then and now. Why would it surprise anyone that they are resisting ending the lockdown?

However, half of the virus cases and two thirds of the deaths have come from five of the state which the dems run. They can stay locked down as long as they wish. Maybe the people who voted dems in office will figure it out.

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Re: I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions


May 9, 2020, 10:14 AM

He forgot to mention the left is more science based, and more likely to believe the experts on what they should do. This only gets doubled down when trump says something directly contradictory to what the guy on stage with him just said. The left thinks, for good reason that trump cares more about his #s than the people he should represent. The comment about the folks on the boat is an early Covid example. So basically the left don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

I think people are more divided now than ever, coz politics is more divided than ever. When old turtle face stands there in the Senate and talks about withholding help to “blue states”. Somehow I can’t imagine St Ronnie putting up with such nonsense.

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Abolish Qualified Immunity


"Left is more science based." That is really funny.


May 9, 2020, 10:50 AM

But you probably get it honestly. Your hero in California says "We will be science based!" Here is where you get it wrong in claiming to be more "science based":

Science is nothing tangible. It is a process, a way of determining a fact from a proposal. It is a process that produces information. What one should say is, "We will be information based." The reason you chose to say "science" rather than "information" is not an accident, whether you know it or not.

No one believes that information can make decisions. Information tells you what x will happen if y is done. It can't tell you whether y is a good thing to do. Science can give us the information needed to go to Mars. It can't tell us whether we should go.

What you are actually saying is that you will do what a scientist tells you to do, based what what he believes the information is. Good luck with that. I won't go through it again, but I explain below why you have sold your soul to the lowest bidder.

I wouldn't follow you across the street.

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Re: "Left is more science based." That is really funny.


May 9, 2020, 12:45 PM

What you just said is a bunch of mumbo jumbo BS.

I stand by what I said. If you ask me if I am more likely to believe people that spend their lives studying infections, virus, disease, or say a guy that thinks you can put freaking disinfectants in your body. Well the answer is clear. And nobody asking you to follow me across the street....you can go your own way

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Abolish Qualified Immunity


But that's just it, isnt it? You and your Comrades dont


May 9, 2020, 4:42 PM

want to let me or anyone go their own way. Instead you turn murders out of fail to put skateboarders in. Lovely vision for society your 'science' has given you. Josef Mengele was actually a brilliant scientist: you guys would get along great.

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Re: But that's just it, isnt it? You and your Comrades dont


May 9, 2020, 6:16 PM

1st off. It’s not just liberal govners that have shut things down. 2nd I would love to see something’s open up to some degree. I know lots of other dem leaning folks that would to. My Gavinor has put out his rules. They are what they are, and I can’t be accountable for every move every lib ever did.

The major difference in this discussion is (while ur spinning in every direction) is most libs understand and feel comfortable with decisions based on research and science, while pubs are Willing to risk their health and many others for their “freedom”. If it were just you it’d be fine, I spose, But we don’t drive drunk, coz we risk our lives and those of others, along with many other things for the good of the people.

And I see what you did there, context is everything. Soooooo I guess we will be crossing that street together after all. If you don’t mind I’ll follow you tho.... not sure I’m comfortable with you following me

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Abolish Qualified Immunity


Re: I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions


May 9, 2020, 3:07 PM [ in reply to Re: I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions ]

Isn't it obvious the Dem Governors are holding out for a bailout from everyone else in the country?

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Re: I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions


May 9, 2020, 3:08 PM [ in reply to Re: I’m interested in opinions re/ Cain’s conclusions ]

Isn't it obvious the Dem Governors are holding out for a bailout from everyone else in the country?

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I think he pretty much nailed it***


May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM



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He was framed


May 9, 2020, 9:38 AM

Abel tripped and hit his head on a rock

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Everything has become so #### politicized


May 9, 2020, 9:47 AM

Trump could make a clear and sound statement, and it will be twisted.

The left can make a clear and sound statement, and it will be twisted.

People have lost ability to make their own opinions and follow the party line 90+% of the time. It’s mind blowing on both sides. The blind loyalty or blind outrage is stupid. The middle has disappeared.

I lean left. Have voted right in some elections. Left in other elections. Am ready for the world to open back up again while I never shut down our business (though encouraged folks to work from home).

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Re: Everything has become so #### politicized


May 9, 2020, 9:55 AM

WHich is why the USA desperately needs a viable 3rd party for those within 10% of dead nut center.

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Re: Everything has become so #### politicized


May 9, 2020, 11:36 AM

All we have to do to achieve that is national RCV - ranked choice voting. Basically, once somebody's on the ballot, based on "x" number of real signatures, voters then get the chance to vote for their first choice, second choice, third, etc....

If nobody has a majority after 1 round, the 2nd-choice votes are tallied. If nobody still has a clear majority, the third-choice votes are added to the total...and so on until a winner is produced.

Basically it means you get to vote your conscience, without handing the election to the opposition.

Right now we're all trying to choose between hemlock and cyanide, and we've been getting some bad candidates...who then use negative obliteration politics to destroy the other side. Hence the insane partisanship.

I don't really want to watch the obliteration game. It's annoying and the screeching hurts my ears. I want to see what a politician is actually for, and RCV forces politicians to sell their platforms instead of just obliterating everybody else's.

In places that have instituted it, you get a lot more parties, a lot more choices, and a lot more civility in your politics. And the obliteration game is gone...instantly.

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Re: Everything has become so #### politicized


May 9, 2020, 12:30 PM

SO basically just let any name on the ballot? Hmm, seems you gorget money makes the wheels go round and without it those names are unkowns. A real 3rd party would require sanity from the exisiting parties if they want to survive.

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Re: Everything has become so #### politicized


May 9, 2020, 1:02 PM

Any name above a certain signature threshold, sure.

If you want to cap it to Top-5 or Top-6 or whatever to simplify the process, sure, have at it if it helps the voters.

The point is more menu options, which gives voters a chance to choose what they like as opposed to just voting against whatever they're most afraid of.

The countries that do it seem to get better choices.

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Re: Everything has become so #### politicized


May 9, 2020, 1:42 PM

Once agan it boils down to $$$$, gotta have name recognition

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And this concerns tnet how?***


May 9, 2020, 10:29 AM



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Simplist defense of accurate observations, imo.


May 9, 2020, 10:40 AM

There is clearly a partisan divide on lockdown, seemingly caused by a combination of nevertrumpism (which has no rational connection, but it seems to be a factor) and ideological differences. It doesn't take much to make the case for the former - just watch cnn to see it - but the latter takes a bit more discussion than just "the left likes seeing the govt spend money". He was likely given little space, and too much of a space restriction might have forced him into that.

During the 60's - 70's the last thing anyone could have predicted is that one day the left would be the voice supporting government autocracy as a strategy for facing a challenge like this. Then, the left seemed to be all about anti authority and individual freedom. Looking back - I will be the first to admit that I didn't see it then - we were actually looking at something far different.

IMO, the philosophy behind, and the actual wording of, the "We hold these truths..." section of the Declaration holds a sacred place in world and US history. It outlines a view of the individual and the sources on one's standing, one that is not granted by any human authority and cannot be legitimately taken away. The left of the previous generation seemed to be all about that. However, when a voice seems to be rebelling against authority but is actually saying, "I like my views better than yours and will do anything to see mine made the norm", you're looking at plain ol' authoritarianism in beads and paisley. Give them power, and they will put into action what they have always been saying: "If you don't like our views, we will simply force them on you."

So now we have a matter that couldn't be simpler: Can two people leave their houses and meet together, a decision made on the basis of informed consent, independently managing and taking responsibility for their own risks? The left says no. We can dirty that up with mounds of conflicting statistics no one knows how to interpret - the strategy the left uses - but that doesn't change the simplicity of the principle in front of us.

Practically, one can now show that we would have handled this much better without lockdown. The left seemed to think that if they they don't impose rules, everyone is going to mindlessly rush into the street purposely pass a virus around. What does happen, and what should have been happening all along, is that people will use information available to develop norms and practices of much more nuance and effectiveness than any centralized authority can develop and impose.

However, while this is a practical example of allowing individual freedom over central authority, it doesn't really matter. The principles of human identity are much more important to be defended by mere practical utility. One values his individual standing at any cost, or he will sell it for nothing. We have done the latter.

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He is essentially correct


May 9, 2020, 11:19 AM

I'm surprised he was surprised that it became a left v. right issue. (I've always been amazed that one's belief in the existence of climate change depends on one's political leanings.) Anyway...

His description of liberals is a bit heavy-handed, but the lockdown does fall right into the wheelhouse of liberal thinking (plus, it has the extra added bonus of taking down the economy and therefore, Trump).

Both (1) and (2) from his article are in play here...

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I agree it's becoming left vs. right...


May 9, 2020, 4:26 PM

but I don' t think liberals want to stay locked down to hurt trump anymore than conservatives only want to open up to help Trump. I also think it's ironic that he portrays the left as petty for making accusations of impropriety - "kill grandma" and portrays the right as being virtuous in their beliefs before basically accusing the left of wanting to destroy the economy to win an election.

I get that partisans will read this and get a boner, but anyone who thinks one side of the debate is more genuine or virtuous in their thinking is blinded by their own partisan ########.

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