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YOUR BALANCE
Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?
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Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?


Oct 24, 2011, 10:25 PM

 
Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?

Read Update »


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I think athletes should get compensation for stuff like that


Oct 24, 2011, 10:27 PM

but only after they have left the university. Put it in a trust fund of sorts. That way it's not rubbed in the faces of the other players (intentionally or unintentionally) and risk disrupting the team dynamics.

These guys work hard and end up making a lot of money for the university and others. They deserve a piece of it.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I like your idea, put it in an account that they have


Oct 24, 2011, 10:37 PM

No access to until their career is over, be it injury, transfer, graduate or go pro. Also, no knowledge of the amount. Deny it if they get kicked off the team. The only drawback would be fairness to other players just as valuable to the team that don't get all the publicity. Don't know how many Walker, Benton, Catman, or Jaron Brown jerseys they could sell.

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Like theres not enough trouble with hidden money now in NCAA***


Oct 24, 2011, 11:37 PM [ in reply to I think athletes should get compensation for stuff like that ]



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I couldn't agree more and am getting blasted for it


Oct 25, 2011, 12:23 AM [ in reply to I think athletes should get compensation for stuff like that ]

on another thread lol....oh well.

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Re: I think athletes should get compensation for stuff like that


Oct 25, 2011, 10:16 AM [ in reply to I think athletes should get compensation for stuff like that ]

I like that idea, cut them the check after they graduate. Doubtful that incentive is greater than the incentive to leave early and get that first round pay check, but I have seen some fans drop some serious $$$ on college apparel.

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Re: Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?


Oct 24, 2011, 10:29 PM

definitely not.

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His NFL signing bonus will make him forget about


Oct 24, 2011, 10:30 PM

the measly few grand he might make off t-shirt sales.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Hmmmm ...


Oct 24, 2011, 10:33 PM

a free ride at a major university isn't compensation enough?

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its not when he and the other...


Oct 24, 2011, 10:35 PM

players are putting butts in the seats and jerseys on the kids with his number on them..he is making the school tons of money.the university isnt giving him squat really they will make back the cost of his education.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

OK, tell you what..........he can pay his way through school


Oct 24, 2011, 11:17 PM

and the bills for all the medical attention and then he can reap the benefit of T-shirt revenues. Wanna guess who will come out ahead?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up




The definition of awesome!


Re: OK, tell you what..........he can pay his way through school


Oct 25, 2011, 3:51 PM

Employers of professional athletes pay for the athletes' medical care, yet the athletes still receive handsome salaries.

I'm pretty sure that Sammy would get paid more than the roughly $40k in benefits he receives on a yearly basis. But that isn't the point. The players shouldn't be forced to just accept a one size fits all allocation of benefits that is decided by the colleges and the NCAA who collude to prevent "student athletes" from negotiating like any normal person can do with their employer.

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What about the ones that don't pan out


Oct 25, 2011, 7:44 AM [ in reply to its not when he and the other... ]

Clemson commits a four year scholarship to these athletes. If they don't pan out and never play a single down and never add a single butt to a seat, they keep their scholarship. For the ones that do stand out, Clemson comes out ahead, but the player gets his compensation in the end if he does things the right way and avoids the injury bug. But then that's where that $50,000+ education comes in if they took advantage of it.

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Re: Hmmmm ...


Oct 24, 2011, 10:47 PM [ in reply to Hmmmm ... ]

It isn't when you consider what his services would be worth if the colleges and the NFL hadn't essentially colluded to prevent people who haven't completed 3 years of college from going pro.

Also, players are truly employees of the school. "Student-athlete" is a crazy lie we tell ourselves to prevent athletes from being fairly compensated.

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Re: Hmmmm ...


Oct 24, 2011, 11:13 PM [ in reply to Hmmmm ... ]

Giving someone a paid education doesn't grant you the right to do as you wish with his image, particularly when he is providing a money-making service to the institution in return. A letter of intent is not a bill of sale.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

you hit the nail on the head.***


Oct 24, 2011, 11:14 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

i agree..a jersey with a number on it i can see...


Oct 24, 2011, 10:34 PM

him not getting a share of..but those shirts with he dreds and helmet he should get something out of that because they are using his likeness.just about any situation he would be able to sue the shirt makers for comp if he wanted to.

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I don't think watkins has dreads copyrighted***


Oct 24, 2011, 11:30 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

didnt say he did...


Oct 24, 2011, 11:38 PM

but we know whos those dreds represent on those shirts..they are profiting off of him.

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it would never hold up in court, no distinguishing marks***


Oct 24, 2011, 11:42 PM



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I don't think you can make an argument for


Oct 25, 2011, 9:13 AM

him making money off of these shirts in court...

But between the combination of the helmet, the dreads, and the number "2", I would think at the very least a judge would grant some sort of injunction to make the shops stop selling these shirts. While they don't have his name or actual picture on them, I would think the unique combination of these things would represent his "likeness"

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Re: it would never hold up in court, no distinguishing marks***


Oct 25, 2011, 3:32 PM [ in reply to it would never hold up in court, no distinguishing marks*** ]

disagree - there is all kinds of secondary meaning that would absolutely hold up in court.

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there are other players for clemson with dreads


Oct 25, 2011, 6:41 PM

so the combination of dreads and a clemson helmet do not explicitly indicated watkins

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

but of those players with dreds..


Oct 25, 2011, 6:50 PM

which one gets talked about the most..nuk is a great player.but if i were to buy that shirt with the helmet and dreds i know who its representing when i get it.and its not nuke

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

if you read the entire article, he has a small point.***


Oct 24, 2011, 10:37 PM



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nope. He wouldn't get paid for any #2 jerseys.***


Oct 24, 2011, 10:49 PM



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Photobucket


truebut he should for anything not done thru the school. if


Oct 24, 2011, 10:58 PM

it was your name n face you'd sue and get compensated. and rightfully so. and so should sammy.

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When and if his compensation


Oct 24, 2011, 11:06 PM

reaches $120,000 then let's discuss it. Until then, no need to discuss. He is given a FREE RIDE. Free education, books, room, board, meals, travel....and not to mention the opportunity to make himself MILLIONS in the NFL. He is not owed anything. Once he committed to Clemson, his name, number, hairdo, etc. became property of Clemson for them to use as they like. Clemson owes this man nothing. His play on the field is earning him the opportunity to make it at the next level.

If we start paying athletes, we need to start paying everyone. Look at all the money they Math Dept. makes Clemson. 30 kids per class at roughly $25,000/yr...let'spay those kids too....geez

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Re: When and if his compensation


Oct 24, 2011, 11:23 PM

So how much is Clemson entitled to in exchange for his scholarship? He has contributed to increased ticket sales, TV revenue, merchandise sales, licensing, and all the other things that go with it...
I don't think anyone is saying that athletes aren't compensated with something of great value in exchange for their participation in a sport, but come on man, people stopped being property in 1865. Clemson does not own him or the right to use his image by giving him a scholarship.
And if you read the article, these shirts are not a product of the university, do not say Clemson, do not have a paw on them, so the school isn't making money on them either. Basically you and I could make some money selling Sammy's picture, without his consent and without giving him anything in return. That's the problem as I see it.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Psssssssssssssssssst! Come over here. Closer. No, closer.


Oct 24, 2011, 11:27 PM

Clemson is not printing and selling the T-shirts. Clemson is not making a penny off the T-shirts. Clemson is selling tickets to football games and collecting IPTAY donations. Oh, and indirectly Clemson is making money on concessions, since they're sub-contracted.

When Sammy is a PRO, he can license his image and jersey.

JEBUS!

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The definition of awesome!


Congratulations


Oct 24, 2011, 11:37 PM

you just said what I said. Thanks for reading.

When Sammy is a PRO, he can license his image... in the meantime, is it fair game for anyone to make money off of it?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Then we agree. Sounded like you were arguing something


Oct 24, 2011, 11:40 PM

different. My apology for the misunderstanding.

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The definition of awesome!


Re: Then we agree. Sounded like you were arguing something


Oct 24, 2011, 11:51 PM

I think we do agree. I have no issue with Clemson making money of course. I don't even have a problem with players getting nothing more than a scholarship. But when the average Joe sells the likeness of an athlete, that's a problem.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Well, that's one for the courts. I don't want, nor think


Oct 24, 2011, 11:56 PM

it's in any way appropriate, for a student athlete to profit from merchandising his/her likeness or persona while maintaining amateur status.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up




The definition of awesome!


Hate to jump in late


Oct 25, 2011, 3:32 PM

But there will be suits over this in the future. One serious impediment to enforcing trademark rights or "rights of publicity" for celebrities is failing to take action against people who wrongfully use their image for process. So, for example, if someone sells Sammy's likeness now and he doesn't sue, he *might* be prevented from suing someone from doing the same thing in the future.

There's a strong legal argument and precedent that may even require someone like Sammy to go after the folks that are printing these T-Shirts. And if he didn, I think he'd probably win...

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Re: Hate to jump in late


Oct 25, 2011, 3:37 PM

"And if he didn" should read "And if he did."

Also replace "process" with "profit" in the second sentence.

Sorry for the grammar...

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Pawprinter makes a very valid point, but


Oct 24, 2011, 11:44 PM [ in reply to Re: When and if his compensation ]

simply had a poor choice of words. Sammy, himself, is not property of Clemson. He can do and choose how he pleases. Sammy's services is property of the athletic department. His letter of intent basically says that in exchange for the compensation of an education and all lavishly paid for expenses (they certainly don't bargain shop when it comes to athletes), he has agreed to play football. All services that he has completed and all revenue that is made as a result of those services are property of the university.

A comparison could be made to intellectual property of students. If a student working on a project for a class at Clemson develops a patent-able product, then that intellectual property is owned by the university. Clemson gave the student the means by which the product was developed, so the university has the first right of refusal to patent and own it.

It becomes a different story when someone independently makes money off of Sammy's performance and likeness. At that point, it would (IMO) be up to the athletic department to seek compensation - not Sammy.

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did you look at the shirts?


Oct 25, 2011, 12:02 AM [ in reply to Re: When and if his compensation ]

A helmet with dreadlocks and the deuce is loose w/ a no. 2.

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Re: When and if his compensation


Oct 25, 2011, 10:16 AM [ in reply to Re: When and if his compensation ]

1863 actually

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This isn't Clemson moran, it's OTHER people/businesses!!!***


Oct 25, 2011, 12:19 AM [ in reply to When and if his compensation ]



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Thats a stupid idea


Oct 24, 2011, 11:09 PM

So say I am a huge booster and own a shirt company. I say well I sold 200,000 Sammy shirts so heres your cut Sammy when I only sold 80,000. Do you see the problem now?

I also believe they should all make a little money to live on but not sure how it would work.

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i agree


Oct 25, 2011, 6:46 AM

completely idiotic. first, its too late. theyve already been sold. second, these stores have nothing to do with the clemson athletics so it wouldnt benefit anything except corrupt the kid. third, how do you pay him but not any of the other players? fourth, you would have to pay him for everything and then you get stuck in sticky situations. whoever wrote this obviously has no capability to look towards the future and its consequences.

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Nonsense***


Oct 24, 2011, 11:16 PM



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Re: Nonsense***


Oct 25, 2011, 12:02 AM

What about the #77's,63's, 55's that make all of the blocks and get the crap beat out of them on every play, where's the money for those guys? A $100,000 education is plenty.

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Wouldn't the shirts be illegal?***


Oct 25, 2011, 12:22 AM



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Re: Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?


Oct 25, 2011, 3:44 AM

NO

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Re: Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?


Oct 25, 2011, 4:10 AM

How about the students that come up with ideas while in school and can't be paid for the idea.
I know for fact that in 1977 two students and a professor working in a computer lab came up with the idea and a way to help the disable in their life by using a computer. They started working on it after a Greenville High in Greenville, SC football player was injured with a brooken neck and paralyzed. That invention has been worth Billions and Clemson ownes the rights. The students got an education and the professor got his salary.

Now for talking about SW
He does not own the #2
He does not own the nick name that the fans gave him
He does not own the Paw
Yes he has his name but till he copyrights it anyone can use it, yes even to make money, one thing if and when he does, no one has to use it, now he's getting free advertising

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Yeah, give them all a cut of the gate revenue too!


Oct 25, 2011, 6:13 AM

Kinda slippery, ain't it?

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

if they are using his photo like the story states


Oct 25, 2011, 6:51 AM

then yes he should get a cut

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Nobody is forcing them to play.


Oct 25, 2011, 6:58 AM

If they felt exploited they wouldn't play.

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Be careful what you ask for


Oct 25, 2011, 3:26 PM

There is talk of a walk out during bowl season. day.

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NO***


Oct 25, 2011, 7:21 AM



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He is getting paid and will get more each year


Oct 25, 2011, 7:31 AM

He's getting a free education and the cost of tuition will rise each year.

If he keeps working hard like he's doing, keeps studying, and remains the model student athlete that he is, his payday will come when it's time to go to the next level.

And the t-shirts and everything else that will be sold because of him will just help show companies how marketable he is when he turns pro and starts making deals.

There are thousands of athletes that would do anything for a shot at a free education and the chance to play in front of pro scouts every weekend. And there are tens of thousands of former athletes that would give anything for the chance to do it all again, but this time the way guys like Sammy goes about it (not wasting those opportunities).

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This has absolutely zero to do with his education


Oct 25, 2011, 9:08 AM

This is not something through the university. This is an outside agency (the t-shirt shop) that is profiting off of Sammy's "likeness". I realize it doesn't say his name, but you have his number, a helmet, and a hairstyle that is unique to that particular number. Everyone knows it's him. Why would people buy the shirts if not for him?

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Re: Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?


Oct 25, 2011, 8:29 AM

I know Sammy would like to make money off of his great performances this year. Unless it was cleared in writing from the NCAA I don't like to mention being paid in the same sentense. Keep moving forward and never mind the money for know. He will be getting paid soon enough. Keep doing what you do Sammy!

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I agree with that for "non" Clemson proprietary stuff


Oct 25, 2011, 9:03 AM

His jersey and what he receives from Clemson or at bowl games is College and Clemson proprietary items and should not be sold for compensation.

He should be able to set up a trust or LLC and make deals to the rights of his name, likeness and what-not to businesses that want to sell products based upon him.

That is a way to compensate those stellar atheletes outside of the University. I don't agree with the universities paying the players X amount of dollars extra each week especially if it is based upon the costs of the university tuition or costs of living at the university. The more expensive schools would be able to pay more and thus would be able to recruit better atheletes because they could pay them more. If it is separate, then you have the universities set equal and the income from their deals are made by outside parties that have adverse agendas. Each party wants to make the most money, so for the player to make more they will have to prove it on the field. Might make players play harder if there is some incentive. If they do well and make some money, then they could use the proceeds to purchase insurance to cover then for injuries if they stay at college an additional year instead of going to the NFL early.

my 2 cents.

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Absolutely not....


Oct 25, 2011, 9:11 AM

The guy is getting a full ride, free tutors, room, board, etc etc etc. He will be in the NFL in 3 years with no debt and then he will be loaded.

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Re: Absolutely not....


Oct 25, 2011, 3:20 PM

What about English majors that have a full ride and publish works while they're in school for compensation?

What about students that are on scholarship but take paid internships during the summers or school year?

I don't see why athletes are any different from other scholarship students.

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Re: Absolutely not....


Oct 25, 2011, 3:58 PM

Two differences:

1. At least in football, they are putting their bodies on the line every week. Other students don't do this.

2. On average, athletes' services are worth a lot more. What would the private market pay an undergrad research assistant to do what they do? I'm guessing $35k/yr-ish. If all college football teams became private entities tomorrow, what do you think they'd pay their players? I'm guessing it wouldn't be anywhere near NFL money, but it would be more than they receive in scholarship money now.

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A college education is a huge benefit.....


Oct 25, 2011, 9:42 AM

and should be viewed as pay. He will have time to become an entrepreneur when he received his degree. Of course he will reap huge benefits and dollars when he signs his NFL contract.

I wish I would have had a free education instead of paying off student loans for 10 years. Alas, I didn't have the athletic ability to play in college.

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Another question


Oct 25, 2011, 10:17 AM

if Sammy wasn't playing college football would anyone want his shirt?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.


You have to remember that Watkins, and players like him, are


Oct 25, 2011, 10:54 AM

the exception not the rule. Without a good offensive line, or a stellar QB like Boyd, or Hopkins/Allen/Brown, or special teams blockers Sammy wouldn't have the opportunity to make the plays he does. How can you reward one player for the contribution of an entire team. Now perhaps a more fair proposal would be to split the collective profits of ALL apparel evenly amongst the team.

I understand the argument that Sammy should be benefiting from the sales of specific apparel that uses his number or likeness, and he is. Every new shirt or jersey that is sold with his likeness or number is benefiting him by increasing the value of Watkins as a brand. Does it benefit him right now? No. However, it will have an exponential return when he makes it to the NFL.

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Re: You have to remember that Watkins, and players like him, are


Oct 25, 2011, 3:23 PM

That argument fails. Under that logic, any scholarship student that works during the school year or summer should not be compensated because they are "building their brand" for after graduation.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

NEAR the bottom line is this:


Oct 25, 2011, 11:01 AM

Whatever is decided, it is then a precedent. It has to apply to every other player and star in college football, across the board. Now that's going to get messy. And I'm not even close to being a lawyer.

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Re: Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?


Oct 25, 2011, 11:31 AM

No.

I think the practice would create animosity among the team. What about the other receivers who don’t get as much attention? Or the offensive linemen who create holes for the RB? Or the backup kicker? How many of their jerseys are sold. I think other players would have a problem with one of their own making money for working just as hard and playing the same game as everyone else.

The (out of state) athletes are getting paid approximately $3000 / game via scholarship. Even if you can break it down by hours spent on the practice field / weight room, it would still be more than that of an average college kid’s job. Additionally studies show a person with a college degree receives $22,000/yr more than those with only a high school diploma. That’s $880,000 over 40 years. That is just those who don’t make millions in the NFL. Plus they receive athletic wear, stipends and lavish gifts from bowl games, free travel expenses, free meals, free game tickets for their family and the rare opportunity to play at the next level.

Maybe the change should be with the retailers and ban them from making money off the likeness of an athlete.

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Yes***


Oct 25, 2011, 11:35 AM



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Since when is a free education and a chance to play at the..


Oct 25, 2011, 3:38 PM

next level not enough? Sammy isn't complaining and definitely doesn't need this guy to complain for him. Sammy is perfectly fine with his payment.

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Re: Since when is a free education and a chance to play at the..


Oct 25, 2011, 3:59 PM

It's not a free education, these kids earn it and then some. They put their bodies on the line and most of them will never see big NFL money like Sammy will.

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Re: Since when is a free education and a chance to play at the..


Oct 25, 2011, 6:38 PM

> It's not a free education, these kids earn it and
> then some. They put their bodies on the line and
> most of them will never see big NFL money like Sammy
> will.

Or they can choose not to play football and pay their way through school then graduate $100,000 in debt, just like everybody else....

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Problem is this opens the door for buying players


Oct 25, 2011, 5:08 PM

How? Simple. Assume play is allowed to earn licensing fees. So the 10% mentioned on $15 t-shirt gets him $1.50/shirt.

Suppose SCAR and Clemson are recruiting a player. Some SCAR booster promises to buy 50,000 t-shirts (thus getting the player $75K). Clemson makes no such promise.

Similar ways that outside employment can get out of hand. Booster offer a "job" to football players (or family), where the job actually entails no work for high pay.

I agree that it seems a shame that players cannot earn, but opening any crack opens the door to the bad old days.

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Re: Football Player Update: Should Watkins be making money from his t-shirts?


Oct 25, 2011, 6:39 PM

not to mention, this plan would only be paying "skill" positions...RB, WR, QB. No one ever buys linemen or d back jerseys.

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