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CU Guru [1555]
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HRs tonight!
May 15, 2014, 9:08 PM
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See we just waited on the perfect time of the year to start flexin!! Hope it continues through the weekend and tourney!!
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Agreed. Better late than never.***
May 15, 2014, 9:12 PM
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CU Medallion [57119]
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outhit 9-8.***
May 15, 2014, 9:16 PM
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Trainer [30]
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Re: outhit 9-8.***
May 15, 2014, 9:21 PM
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score????
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Recruit [85]
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I love how people
May 15, 2014, 9:31 PM
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cling to anything they perceive brings them hope. Wake-up!!! It's BC...might as well be middle school pitching. Maybe reality will slap everyone in the face on May 26th. These are good kids that year after year have been pulled down by poor coaching.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 9:38 PM
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I love how someone actually maintains an account here for 10 years almost exclusively to troll Clemson baseball a few times a year. Oh,and congrats on the foresight in your post about UNC never losing any baseball games they should win. Wish I could find one where you said O'Sullivan would never have a losing season at Florida - because you know you would have believed it.
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Recruit [85]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:00 PM
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Dude...I don't troll. I have season tickets and I live in reality. When you wake up from your dream we can have a real conversation. I graduated from Clemson when you where in diapers. I can assure you, we never saw crap like this when Bill Wilhelm was coach. What is really sad is you want to talk trash to me when all I am doing is pointing out facts. Clearly you must be a Democrat because you live in La-La land.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:07 PM
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Trolling like a boss.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:10 PM
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Says he isn't trolling , then finishes by calling out a partisan political group.
See definition of "trolling".
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Recruit [85]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:19 PM
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I see you live in La-La land also. I am glad you young lads can teach an hold man new tricks. I had no idea stating fact was trolling. I guess it really does not matter what direction the program is going.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:34 PM
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I'm sorry, in the olden day (3-4 years before I started school) they must have defined facts differently. Where is a single fact in this quote: "might as well be middle school pitching. Maybe reality will slap everyone in the face on May 26th. These are good kids that year after year have been pulled down by poor coaching. " To my understanding these are entirely opinions and speculation but we obviously have a huge generational divide. I think facts are things like "BC has won 9 ACC games this year," "Jack Leggett as head coach of a Clemson has been to 6 College World Series," "if Clemson fails to make the CWS this year it would be the first time in his tenure that a four year player would not have the opportunity to go to Omaha." See, I've opted not to editorialize those comments in any way.
Message was edited by: viztiz®
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: I love how people ] |
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Just because you're old doesn't mean you're not a troll.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: I love how people ] |
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and, if you're t-net info is even remotely accurate you're like 3 years old than me so quit with I'm so old and I was around when Frank tapped Bill to lead this program and Bill is rolling in his grave routine. If you grauduated in a timely manner you would have enrolled in 1985 and watched Bill win exactly 1 ACC title and never go to a World Series while you were a student. He lost 30 games the year before you enrolled. He finished .500 in the ACC in his final season. In the 8 season he coached after you graduated high school he made 1 CWS. So take off the Clemson colored googles when you're reminiscing.
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Recruit [85]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:35 PM
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Yes and our present leadership has so many ACC titles to his credit. Nice try. Facts hurt! What really is curious is why you are such a strong supporter of a coach that is 6-11 against Top 50 RPI teams. It would be one thing if it where a blip on the radar, but it has become an all to familiar pattern. Great kids, awful coaching.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 10:52 PM
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What I find weird is the complete inconsistency in your arguments. If I glance back at your posts you praise Wilhelm (I would say deservedly) but then use it as a launching point to attack Jack by comparison. I've also seen you argue that National Championships are all that matter!?!? Well, with that metric nearly everyone fails. And Wilhelm, who you go out of your way to align yourself with fails that measure too.
Like it or not 6 CWS for Jack is an impressive figure so when you post tirades that he's simply a "bad coach" and "not a good coach" you have no credibility. The success of his coaching tree also undermines that argument. Does this mean I think he's infallible? Absolutely not. But I don't think people who adopt your position are helping the situation. Even if we "Fire Jack!" that does nothing to address the inequity in support the baseball program gets relative to the teams we consider rivals and expect to beat. We all love Doug Kingsmore, but a lot of people seem to naively believe we can sprinkle some pixie dust from the hills and a better coach will just magically have us 40+ games a year (as opposed to this years dreadful 35+).
SCar spent $30 MILLION on Carolina Stadium!!!!!!!!! The have spent more on baseball in the last 8 years than Clemson has in the entirety of its baseball program combined. if we do not come to terms with this inequity then simply replacing this coach is guaranteed to be a complete disaster. A type of disaster that our University has a history of exploiting to help make us settle for real mediocrity, Tommy West ring a bell? We stuck with Bowden for a decade(!!) because we basically lived in fear of going back to the West years. I know Jack can coach. And the statistics are entirely on my side in any argument otherwise. I know he loves this program and is fighting to keep it relevant. Since it is inevitable that we are going to have to change how we invest in this program if we want to be truly competitive with SCar and the others, I don't see why he shouldn't get an opportunity to see what he'd do with it.
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Recruit [85]
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Re: I love how people
May 15, 2014, 11:38 PM
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My point about coach Wilhelm is this. The later stages of his career were successful. No, he did not win National Championships, but he did win ACC championships. This coach is finishing his career like June Raines.
Admittedly, Leggett has an impressive coaching tree, but I don't see how that helps your argument. It makes me wonder who was doing the coaching when those other coaches were here. You are correct, I did say National Championships should be a measuring stick, but if you are going to place Omaha on the back of you caps each year, then you need to win one. Granted coach Wilhelm did not win one, but he did not have Omaha on the back of the caps either.
I agree the idiots from the front porch to hell have spent way more than we will ever spend on baseball, but that does not equate the same way it does in football. Baseball has a limit of 11.7 scholarships to give and there are many excellent baseball players in this state. They all can not go to Columbia. I admit our facilities need help, but so do many other schools. Since you mentioned former assistants, let's compare our facilities to Florida or Vanderbilt. If you have seen either school...it is nothing special and those guys are not fighting to make the tourney.
Bottom-line the baseball program is going in the wrong direction. Bar a miracle from the Almighty this team would be extremely lucky to make it to a Super Regional. Of course, this assumes we make it to the dance. A poor showing next week could boot us out all together. If these kids do pull a miracle it will have nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with their ability to overcome coaching.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I love how people
May 16, 2014, 6:54 AM
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So now you've framed it that even a return trip to Omaha, even a national championship, has nothing positive to say about coaching!? That's a little ###### if you do, ###### if you don't. I don't expect it happens but come on - baseball teams don't really pick themselves up by their boot straps. This team could easily have completely imploded. Unlike some on here, I don't think 33 wins counts as implosion. I truly believe the defensive improvement in the infield is going to make some difference. If you've really been watching then you have to admit that infield errors have accounted for, conservatively, 5 of our losses this year. Give us a 5 game w/l swing and that is a huge change in perception of this team. But you and peanut would still be demanding a change.
I don't get where you have the notion that Wilhelm was so much more successful that Leggett in has later years. In his last 13 seasons he went to Omaha once. In that same stretch his season ended at the ACC tournament 5 times. All this without FSU or Miami in the conference and UNC, Virginia, and NC State teams that had yet to make serious investments in their program. And, an ACC championship played in his back yard.
I have not seen the facilities at Florida or Vandy. But people seem to turn a blind eye to the fact the Florida had a losing season last year (so yes, they were fighting to make the tourney last year). As for the in state recruiting there has obviously been a big swing that way so I'm not sure about your complaint. But I think you are smart enough to understand that if we are constantly taking the second tier of in state recruits just to stay in state that isn't going to bode well in the long run. It seems to be overlooked that it is also far cheaper to go to SCar these days than Clemson - another huge advantage in a partial scholarship sport. Even if everything else was even in the eyes of a recruit and his family, this is like thousands of dollars more in scholarship funds.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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If reason were as fun as emotion...
May 16, 2014, 8:11 AM
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It's sad/frustrating that such an obviously better argument will be lost on many fellow clemson fans.
Most people here only seem to understand that they are sick and tired of being humiliated by gamecock fans. So their emotional response is to lash out in an attempt to immediately stop it. Of course such behavior only makes things worse but people are immune to learning that lesson.
Once a fan associates with a "fire ------" camp then they are lost for good. They align their pride and ego with the perceived justified removal of the coach. Notice the obvious lack of alternatives brought up by these people? They can't / won't think that far ahead.
Btw this season sucks. That showing against notre dame was inexcusable.
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CU Guru [1555]
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Re: If reason were as fun as emotion...
May 16, 2014, 9:07 AM
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Well put...I am very disappointed in this team and def see that the program has been declining that past few years...blame on what you want but I honestly believe if USuC hadn't had the success they are having overall and against us, I don't think ppl would be acting like this...not saying it isn't warranted the way they have played but if were splitting with them or beating them pretty often it would be fine...think that's why Bowden got as long as he did. CU athletics is in a weird place the last 5 years or so with USuC and it sucks but it will work itself out I think starting with football this year.
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CU Guru [1788]
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Re: If reason were as fun as emotion...
May 16, 2014, 11:31 AM
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The logic is simple...if you can't beat the Coots right now, than you are in no way competing for a national title...not even close. I for one am sick of the mediocrity...a change must be made wether it's Jack or other members of the coaching staff because the way it stands now is not getting it done!!!
Stick up for Jack all you want, part of being a manager is making tough decisions regarding your staff...well here we are D-Rad/Jack, I expect at seasons end that you will do the right thing and fix what is broken!
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Legend [16908]
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Re: If reason were as fun as emotion...
May 16, 2014, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to If reason were as fun as emotion... ] |
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This season has not been very fun. But, the Notre Dame series highlights a lot of the problems. Day 3 we are going to struggle to beat anybody, period. But Gossett and Crownover will keep us in it with anyone. In Game 1 Crownover was great but Notre Dame's defense most certainly didn't play like the worst team in the league. They played great. There wasn't a lot to fault about our team that night. Day 3 was a sh*t show but it is what it is. I have no problem with people screaming to replace our pitching coach. The regression this year is unbelievable.
To me the biggest problem with the "fire whoever" crowd is that it eventually creates a self-fulfilling prophecy without addressing other root concerns. Everyone likes to ape the coot line that Jack makes the players "play tight" but this team is clearly carrying the weight and disappointment of this fanbase on their shoulders. We want them to go out, have fun, and win - while showing no confidence in them and constantly brow beating them.
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CU Guru [1555]
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Re: If reason were as fun as emotion...
May 16, 2014, 9:29 AM
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Well what do most think the root problem is?? It certainly cannot be facilities..i know USC spent all that money and you saw the rewards but they needed it badly, they were playing in a POS...and they can fill that place up easily...
I think player development is the biggest issue..these kids don't seem to get better throughout their CU careers, I think the hitting and pitching coaching needs to be addressed before we just fire Jack LOL which is not going to happen.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: If reason were as fun as emotion...
May 16, 2014, 9:44 AM
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I don't think Doug Kingsmore is really a problem. I think it is the training facilities, lockers, medical rooms - that sort of stuff where we are way behind. Carolina's really are state of the art. So it is just another impediment to recruiting. If a recruit is picking between Clemson and SC he's looking at better facilities and lower tuition bill after his partial scholarship - not to mention two national titles. That new ball park was a major selling point for the group of recruits that went on to win titles. People forget that Tanner hadn't been back to Omaha since the 3 years at the start of his tenure and was very much on the hot seat in 2010, especially after we demolished them at home that year.
As far as staff we obviously have a major problem with pitching. I'll be very surprised if a move isn't made here this offseason. Even the haters seem to love Lecroy, some even suggesting he should be the next coach. But I've never understood that logic. How exactly is Jack holding Bradley back? What exactly is he going to do differently that Jack is actively impeding? As a head coach he'd just have less time for recruiting which appears to be his strength right now.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The overall performance we had against Notre Dame was
May 16, 2014, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: If reason were as fun as emotion... ] |
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terrible. They tried to give us game one. We just failed to do anything at the plate. Okie seems to be the only consistent clutch hitter and Wilkerson deserves honorable mention.
Barring a seemingly impossible postseason run, this year is not only a disappointment, but a failure from a coaching standpoint. That said, all this talk about firing Jack is retarded.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: The overall performance we had against Notre Dame was
May 16, 2014, 10:08 AM
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I'm asking in all seriousness, how did they try and give away game 1? Just not at all how I remember it. I remember being genuinely impressed with several defensive plays and feeling like we couldn't catch a break. 2-1 final score with no errors by either team (and how often does that happen in college baseball).
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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8 walks and several mistake pitches we didn't take advantage
May 16, 2014, 10:37 AM
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of.
Their starter wasn't all that impressive yet we made him look MUCH better than he was.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: 8 walks and several mistake pitches we didn't take advantage
Apr 23, 2024, 1:43 PM
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good lord. the guy gave up 3 hr's and 6 runs in 4 innings and you are complaining. smfh. it was also obvious the kid had good stuff but just left some pitches in bad spots.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I think you are confused about what I'm talking about.
May 16, 2014, 10:42 AM
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That or I'm confused about what you are talking about.
I'm talking about Conaughton(sp)? during game one... against ND. He was mediocre at best, and we made him look like a hero.
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All-TigerNet [14470]
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Re: I think you are confused about what I'm talking about.
May 16, 2014, 10:55 AM
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oh sorry. didnt realize we were still in last week.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I think you are confused about what I'm talking about.
May 16, 2014, 11:01 AM
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We were just having a civilized conversation which is pretty unusual around here. I just genuinely remember them making the plays more than us screwing it up in game 1 against ND. Forgot they walked 8 and we should have done more damage in the 1st. But i still don't think their defense played anything like the worst team in the league that night.
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Recruit [85]
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Re: I love how people
May 16, 2014, 5:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: I love how people ] |
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In 5 of Coach Wilhelm's last 6 season his teams either won the regular season ACC title or the tourney title. Our present leadership can't sniff that. Additionally, it was much tougher to make the tourney field back in the 70's and 80's. From 1975 to 1987 only 32 teams made the tourney. In 1988, the field expanded to 48 teams and remained that way until 1998 when it went to 64 teams. I will grant you from 1982 through the 1986 the season did end with the ACC tourney, but 3 of those years Clemson won or tied for the regular season championship. It says a lot about college baseball at the time. Amazing how you could win your league during the regular season and not make the 32 team field.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Man, I have to agree with you. Some just will not
May 15, 2014, 11:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: I love how people ] |
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accept it as they seem to be gluttons for punishment.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Oh the old "I've got season ticket" post again.***
May 15, 2014, 11:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: I love how people ] |
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Heisman Winner [135609]
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I don;t think it's coaching as much as I beleieve that
May 16, 2014, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: I love how people ] |
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Leggett doesn't wear a coat and tie in the dugout. And...I played youth baseball, so it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about here.
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CU Medallion [60229]
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3rd game this season the wind has blown somewhat out
May 15, 2014, 9:31 PM
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Was quite refreshing.
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Scout Team [178]
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Re: 3rd game this season the wind has blown somewhat out
May 16, 2014, 1:36 AM
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I really think that pitching (after the big 2) is the ONLY concern. Our bullpen guys have struggled, face it, we hold our breath every time one of them comes in! Hopefully Pep can figure a way to generate some consistency in there. We are expecting Crownover and Gossett to be 'on' every game and go into the 8th or 9th. Not fair to put that pressure on those guys and they have handled it like MEN! It has been said many times and it is true....'good pitching beats good hitting every time.' If you have sub par pitching the whole approach to the game changes for coaches and players alike. A college kid coming into the game and getting beat around will happen from time to time when you are throwing strikes. There is really no excuse for the abundance of walks. As much as I hated watching Notre Dame hit three homeruns in one inning, it would have been far worse in my eyes to see three guys walked in one inning.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: Human Resources night!***
May 16, 2014, 9:09 AM
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Orange Blooded [3924]
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You talking about the Barves? Tigers are DONE!!!!
May 16, 2014, 10:44 AM
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Jack is already fired. He just doesn't know it yet. If you were one of the ones "in the know" you would have this information already. YWIA
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CU Guru [1555]
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Re: You talking about the Barves? Tigers are DONE!!!!
May 16, 2014, 10:55 AM
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Haha well I am def not talking about the Braves because they look like a middle school team hitting major league pitching most of the time too LOL and Jack is not going anywhere haha...I know ppl are upset but the guy will leave on his own when hes ready or they possibly will next year if we go through the same type year...we will win this series and get hot and win a couple in the ACCT and itll be better
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Orange Blooded [3924]
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Mark the tape. You WILL be disappointed.***
May 16, 2014, 10:56 AM
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CU Guru [1555]
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Re: You talking about the Barves? Tigers are DONE!!!!
May 16, 2014, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: You talking about the Barves? Tigers are DONE!!!! ] |
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you are probably right but I can be hopeful, its not these guys just absolutely suck, they have shown flashes of how good they can be they just haven't put it together..example the FSU and USuC series...Easily should have took 2 from both..just couldn't finish. I def think some changes will be made they will pretty much make Jack do that but he aint goin no where ppl...not saying I disagree or agree with that either way...bc this year has been bad and embarrassing to say the least at times
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