Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
GA passes hate crime bill
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - General Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 25
| visibility 499

GA passes hate crime bill


Jun 23, 2020, 5:12 PM

.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-beeksteak-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

About dang time....


Jun 23, 2020, 5:15 PM

Killers who hate their victims have been getting a free pass for far too long.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-franc1968.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


I mean, killing is killing, right?


Jun 23, 2020, 5:49 PM

If it was not, we would probably have laws that the differentiate punishments based on motivation, premeditation, whether or not you use use a gun or not, etc. We might even have categories for self-defense. We really can’t consider the state of mind of the defendant or the whole system will just fall apart.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-fordprefect.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Out of curiosity, where else does motivation come into play?


Jun 23, 2020, 5:54 PM

Not a gotcha, genuine question cause I can't think of an example.

It seems the biggest litmus test is whether you set out to kill the person or not, far moreso than why (except cases like temporary insanity). If you did, then I think it's just as bad if you killed them for their race as if you killed them because they had a dog that barked too loud..

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-20yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Most felonies require some mental state element.***


Jun 23, 2020, 6:01 PM



2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


And you are proving TNet requires no mental state


Jun 24, 2020, 4:13 PM

whatsoever.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Yes, killing people we love has got to stop***


Jun 23, 2020, 6:06 PM [ in reply to I mean, killing is killing, right? ]



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-franc1968.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Happens more often than you might think***


Jun 23, 2020, 6:16 PM



2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


So here’s my thing...


Jun 23, 2020, 6:20 PM

I think we have plenty of legislation on the books. Adding “hate” to it isn’t going to be any more of a deterrent.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-franc1968.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


I get what you're saying...


Jun 23, 2020, 6:28 PM

I don't really have a particular opinion on this one. But it comes down to basic principles of criminal law. The purposes of criminal law (that I'm aware of) are deterrence, incapacitation, rehabilitation, restitution, and retribution. You mentioned deterrence, and honestly I don't know to what extent a gang of racist murdering types are concerned that they'll be punished more harshly. But that still leaves other purposes, like incapacitation: removing them from society. There are lots of reasons you might kill someone, but if it's because you just hate an entire group of people, then yeah maybe you just need to go away for a long time, for the sake of the rest of us.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


I hate lawyers...


Jun 23, 2020, 6:46 PM

Lol....

But seriously, (in my understanding, which may be wrong) the same side that argues hate crimes argues that the penal system is too punitive.

On a personal level, I believe in redemption. Nothing makes me happier to see someone pull themselves out of bad situations and make a better place for themselves in life. I want to see people overcome the odds.

I’m not sure that happens in prison.

I understand there are levels of murder, heck, I’m redneck enough to have a great uncle who killed his wife in bed with another man and got off with a crime of passion.

I am just of the opinion that if we’d simply enforce the laws we have, we don’t need anymore. I am of the opinion that these hate crimes are simply lip service. And I know that is from my own biases.

If there are misspellings, it might be because I am at the beach “relaxing” and getting coronavirus.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-franc1968.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Me too!


Jun 23, 2020, 7:45 PM

Lawyers are the worst. Fortunately, in my line of work I get to fight them every day.

The most recent "side" to say that the penal system is too punitive was all politicians when they passed a bi-partisan criminal reform bill. But I think you can support that and still have a variety of viewpoints on hate crimes.

I believe in redemption also, and I was in favor of the reform bill.

That's awesome about your uncle. Mrs. Spoon's great-grandfather shot his wife in the street and did only a little time in the pen.

You said:
I am just of the opinion that if we’d simply enforce the laws we have, we don’t need anymore. I am of the opinion that these hate crimes are simply lip service. And I know that is from my own biases.

I can't really even take an opinion about that, because we're talking about Georgia law, and a bill I've never seen. So I'd be arguing in a vacuum to say that you're right or wrong about it.


If there are misspellings, it might be because I am at the beach “relaxing” and getting coronavirus.

Would you just turn off your screen and enjoy the beach!?

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Waiting to hear your response....


Jun 23, 2020, 8:03 PM

Cause you make me think.

I’m a few credits away from my doctorate, so I’m going to get you, my friend.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-franc1968.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Maybe lip service is important here...


Jun 24, 2020, 4:05 PM [ in reply to I hate lawyers... ]

maybe the signal that we don't tolerate racism and we consider it enough of an evil that we will send you to jail longer if it was your motivation is important to moving forward without all the baggage of racism and racialization.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-fordprefect.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sure, if you have a video.


Jun 23, 2020, 6:28 PM [ in reply to I mean, killing is killing, right? ]

When you show up in court without a witness to prosecute someone and only have a body or the weapon their motivation then becomes a major factor.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: GA passes hate crime bill


Jun 23, 2020, 5:20 PM

Now of only being racist can be considered a hate crime..... it’sacomin’

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"If you follow the law, you won't have anything to worry


Jun 23, 2020, 5:48 PM

about!!!!!"

You sound worried, though.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: "If you follow the law, you won't have anything to worry


Jun 23, 2020, 7:34 PM

If everyone followed the law they wouldn’t get shot by police, but you are grilling me and marching for others. Crite alert.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Congratulations Georgia


Jun 23, 2020, 5:38 PM

You've now valued the life of certain people above the life of others.

A taken life is a taken life. Hate crime legislation is not equality.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Do you know the race of the victim is not laid out


Jun 23, 2020, 5:44 PM

In the hate crime legislation right? So, if a black assailant attacks a white man or woman and the motivation is proven to be race, that’s also covered.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-fordprefect.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Do you know the race of the victim is not laid out


Jun 23, 2020, 5:48 PM

Yes.

I don't care if a bunch of black panthers kill a white guy, or a bunch of klan members kill a black guy, or some white guy kills another white guy.

They all took a human life with malice. All should be punished equally. Hate crime legislation values some lost lives above others. IMHO, it's not equality.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

All statutes on killing


Jun 10, 2024, 8:39 PM

Value some lives above others. That’s why there are enhanced penalties for premeditation, use of guns, etc. you don’t get as many years for being exceedingly pissed off and losing control and killing someone as you do for being involved in a crime like a robbery when you kill someone. If you commit a crime like a robbery with a gun you get more time than if you used a knife. The law has made distinctions between killings for literally hundreds of years since the Bible and before. And yet somehow being a racist and killing someone because you’re a racist it’s just a bridge too far for some people.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-fordprefect.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I also disagree with most of those.***


Jun 23, 2020, 5:58 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It's not about the value of a life.


Jun 23, 2020, 5:50 PM [ in reply to Congratulations Georgia ]

After all, there are several degrees of murder. It's just extra evil to single someone out by their identity and kill them for it.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


I've hated Georgia most of my life.


Jun 23, 2020, 6:12 PM

I don't know bill but I'll probably hate him too.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

What # do I call when I think someone hates me?

1

Jun 24, 2020, 2:10 PM

Thx

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 25
| visibility 499
Archives - General Boards Archive
add New Topic