|
Replies: 20
| visibility 422
|
Hall of Famer [21558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13913
Joined: 9/7/02
|
"For I was hungry and you gave me food...
Jul 15, 2014, 4:52 PM
|
|
|
|
I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me"-Matthew 25:35
|
|
|
|
 |
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
The left has a weird obsession with Christianity...
Jul 15, 2014, 4:55 PM
|
|
how this border thing has anything to do with the religious right, I don't know, but this is the second thing I've seen on here today trying to link it with right- wing Christians. Meanwhile, I've heard that Catholic churches along the border are sheltering immigrants and the SBC supports comprehensive immigration reform. And, of course, the verse you quoted has nothing to do with policy questions about dealing with people who break immigration laws.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13913
Joined: 9/7/02
|
So its ok to use a verse out of the Bible for your
Jul 15, 2014, 5:04 PM
|
|
beliefs on gay marriage but not on how you treat your neighbor?
Got it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
It's ok to use a verse on how to treat your neighbor...
Jul 15, 2014, 5:12 PM
|
|
for guidance on how to treat your neighbor, but it's not ok to claim that the verse is dispositive on how a government should deal with people who break immigration laws, or about how a country should handle its borders.
It's ironic that people on the left, who are always on the lookout for "theocracy," so often make the same simplistic assumptions that fundamentalists do about the direct connection between scripture and current political questions.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13913
Joined: 9/7/02
|
Re: It's ok to use a verse on how to treat your neighbor...
Jul 15, 2014, 5:40 PM
|
|
But again we should use a verse to define marriage and whether or not to allow homosexuals to have certain rights?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
Those verses should inform us about how we act...
Jul 15, 2014, 5:56 PM
|
|
and they often tell us about how the Kingdom of God will be, and thus tell us something about the community we hope for.
So what I would say is that the Bible doesn't tell us dispositively about rights or definitions of marriage within a particular government, but it does tell us about what God intends for marriage to be and for what God intends our sexuality to be used for. These things are right no matter what the government decides and are extra- political, therefore an extra argument about the role of government in these particular issues, which I think is Biblically ambiguous, is required.
I also don't really think you have to go to the Bible to find reasons why same- sex marriage is a misnomer, which sort of illustrates what I was saying about the left's obsession with Christianity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13913
Joined: 9/7/02
|
Re: Those verses should inform us about how we act...
Jul 15, 2014, 5:59 PM
|
|
Obsession huh? The real obsession is the right forcing their religious beliefs on others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17909]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8935
Joined: 12/24/96
|
How about those trying to enter from their mothers womb?
Jul 16, 2014, 7:57 AM
|
|
DO you feel the same way about those children? That they should have the care of the nation as well? Not saying you don't, just curious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
|
OF COURSE NOT, they aren't guaranteed Dem votes***
Jul 16, 2014, 12:15 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13913
Joined: 9/7/02
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Those verses should inform us about how we act...
Jul 15, 2014, 8:06 PM
|
|
I really am not sure what to think about the kids, but I am afraid of the MS-13 and other potentially dangerous gangs and terrorists coming across the border without problems.
Also, I would be worried for my children if I lived along the border because of the diseases that are coming over.
I think there is a good debate to be had, but pictures like the one you posted at the beginning is just inflammatory and means nothing to the debate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30150
Joined: 9/9/06
|
That's all a bit disingenous isn't it?
Jul 15, 2014, 8:09 PM
[ in reply to Those verses should inform us about how we act... ] |
|
to claim that the same-sex marriage debate isn't a religious debate? Case in point, even the ones that make the "non-religious" arguments (such as yourself) do so from a place of religious thought. (see your first paragraph)
Not trying to get into the same-sex debate again, but trying to say that debate isn't hinged on religious thinking is inaccurate. (This is probably also why you think the left is obsessed with Christianity. Even when you think you aren't using it as a fulcrum for your thinking, you are.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
Re: That's all a bit disingenous isn't it?
Jul 15, 2014, 9:53 PM
|
|
That's beside the point. Yes, many of the people who oppose same sex marriage have a religious background that forbids same sex behavior, but it certainly isn't the case that the only reason to oppose it is a religious one. Further, religious reasons can also be public reasons if they're based on natural law and not just sacred law. In secular democracies, it's the public reasons that count (meaning that only those reasons accessible to the public at large, and not just to an elect few), so it shouldn't matter whether or not nearly everyone who makes those arguments is motivated by a particular religion.
Liberals, I think, want to reduce others' arguments to exclusively "religious arguments" because they believe that anything religious must be private speech; religious speech is and can only be based on authority that isn't accessible by public reason, so it's properly left out of public. If they can say that an argument is really about religion and not actually about the reasons given, then those reasons can be dismissed as merely private.
Underlying these assumptions, as I pointed out to gotigers, is the idea that there can always be a direct political/ policy inference to be made from scripture without thinking about the role of government in your political theology.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30150
Joined: 9/9/06
|
I'm simply pushing back on the "misnomer" argument
Jul 15, 2014, 10:22 PM
|
|
which you've conceded isn't a misnomer. The opposition to same-sex does, in fact, comes from or is influenced by a religious viewpoint. And whether you think that public or private is besides the point.
Don't confuse dismissing arguments as an attack on religion or a "liberal tactic," rather understand that many of them are dismissed because they are incredibly dumb. 
(I have yet to see a reason given to be against gay rights or same-sex marriage that wasn't, in some way, influenced by religious thought. Even in terms of "what is in the state's best interest are often just appeals to religious doctrine. )
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
|
Why do they never go after the Muslims who kill homosexuals
Jul 16, 2014, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to That's all a bit disingenous isn't it? ] |
|
It is always just the Christians. I wonder if any gays were invited to Obama's love fest with Islam this week at the white house for Ramadan?????
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7026]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15682
Joined: 10/10/02
|
Only when they think it suits their purpose.
Jul 15, 2014, 5:13 PM
[ in reply to The left has a weird obsession with Christianity... ] |
|
The problem is, it's the "religious right" that are the one's attempting to help these people, not the left or any of their "foundations".
I'm completely fine with being compassionate because that's who we are as Americans. Make sure they get the medical attention that they need, feed them, and take them back to their country.
Secure the border, and make being an American citizen something people strive for, not something that's given to them with no process or consequence.
I imaging immigrants who have come here the correct way are fuming at the idea that these would get a free pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3712]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6078
Joined: 10/20/00
|
can't there be bottled water and snacks for the ride home?****
Jul 15, 2014, 5:38 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27403]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 39025
Joined: 9/9/05
|
Nice to see racism alive and well!***
Jul 15, 2014, 6:01 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
|
How was that racist? Elian Gonzalos was Latino and the Dems
Jul 16, 2014, 12:20 PM
|
|
made dang sure he went back. Assault weapons in the middle of the night to make it happen
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97697]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64836
Joined: 7/13/02
|
So we should dump that Jesus guy and worship Obama?
Jul 16, 2014, 8:51 AM
|
|
Got it. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Starter [374]
TigerPulse: 76%
Posts: 344
Joined: 10/16/11
|
My favorite
Jul 18, 2014, 10:30 AM
|
|
is when they cut up their prostitute in judges
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 20
| visibility 422
|
|
|
50
