|
Replies: 52
| visibility 1
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 11:43 AM
|
|
having an opinion about players turning pro early...
We saw your tweet, criticizing some Clemson fans for thinking they know better:
"I don't get how people can be a "Clemson fan" but talk down about the players for making a decision to leave school. Everybody swear they know what's best for you smh. Why does it matter to you anyways let them live there life the way they want."
You could not be more mistaken, man.
First of all, we care about you as people, not just as football players. We want the best for you and your life - now and in the future. In case you haven't noticed, that is very uncommon for a football fan base. Most fan bases just care about your ability to perform on the field. We're different.
Second, nobody claims to know what is best for you. However, many of us do have the luxury of having many years on you in age, and have seen our perspective on life change significantly over the years. What we thought was true at 20 or 25 turned out not to be true at 30, 40, or 50. You should listen to these perspectives, and weigh them along with advice from your coaches, friends, family members, and advisors.
I can confidently say that 99.9% of all Clemson fans want our student-athletes to make the best decision for themselves. We do not know specifics of each player's personal situation, background, or career goals. We don't know what is best - only you can decide that. But we do know that an uninformed decision to go pro early, especially without a degree and without a guarantee of being a high draft pick, is a huge risk. What happens if you don't get drafted? What happens if you have a horrible career-ending injury before you've made a dime? Then what? Will you go back to school to get a degree? Will you be able to get a job that you enjoy, and provides well for you and your family?
Regardless of what happens on the football field, what matters most is doing what's best for your long-term future. Do you have a backup plan if football doesn't work out? Have you weighed the pros and cons of making money in the NFL while you can, versus coming back to college to complete your degree and possibly improve your prospects as an NFL player?
We will support your decision regardless, but forgive us if we can't help but care about you as a person and not just a football player who scores touchdowns or makes tackles.
Sincerely,
A Clemson fan who cares
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Guru [1845]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2788
Joined: 12/14/15
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 11:47 AM
|
|
IMO, I think the players just expect the fans of the school to be supportive of them. You don't know anything about them past what you see from them on a football field a few times a year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Who is being unsupportive of them?!?
Jan 8, 2018, 11:53 AM
|
|
Thinking a player is making a mistake from a football perspective isn't the same as a lack of support. At the end of the day, all of us want what is best for them and will support them regardless. But to expect us to not have an opinion is ridiculous. We care, after all. They should be thankful for that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1845]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2788
Joined: 12/14/15
|
Re: Who is being unsupportive of them?!?
Jan 8, 2018, 12:02 PM
|
|
I didn't say anyone was being unsupportive, I said in my opinion I think that is all that the players expect, they expect the same people who pull for them on Saturday when they play for their favorite school to pull for them in anything else they do.
And still, just in my opinion, I don't believe that any of us fans really have the football knowledge to know whether or not a player is making a good decision or not. We see them a few Saturdays a year and for a lot of the players, the only time you notice them is when they make a mistake.
And it's not like the players take in to account what the fans advise them to do anyway, and players are speaking out against it, so what's the point anyways? Just so if they don't work out immediately in the pros you can say "I told you so"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
If they only care what fans think when we are showing up to
Jan 8, 2018, 12:05 PM
|
|
the stadium to cheer for them, but not when it comes to their futures, then that is concerning.
Obviously they shouldn't base their decisions on what message board fans think, but they also shouldn't ignore anyone's advice just because it differs from the promises of riches and NFL glory they are hearing from others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30813]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 34493
Joined: 6/22/03
|
Then don't show up and cheer.
Jan 8, 2018, 12:18 PM
|
|
I agree with scott.
The only thing the player has to do is follow the rules of his committment.
The fans and their opinions can pound sand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
If they don't want to hear from fans
Jan 8, 2018, 12:22 PM
|
|
then they shouldn't have chosen a career that is so much in the public eye.
They should also be prepared to receive the "bad" (fan opinions online) along with the good (cheering at games, financially supporting the program, etc.).
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30813]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 34493
Joined: 6/22/03
|
that doesn't take away
Jan 8, 2018, 12:29 PM
|
|
Their right to tell fans to pound sand.
Id probably say worse if I were him
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I just think it's poor form for an athlete to whine
Jan 8, 2018, 1:41 PM
|
|
on social media about fans having an opinion, when 99.9% of those opinions are because they care about the players and want what's best for them. Especially when said fans are the ones who make it possible for those players to get a full ride to college on a football scholarship, have access to the coaching, training, nutrition, and other amenities they have, and ultimately be prepared for a professional career where they can make millions.
There's also the aspect of honoring a commitment to a university, especially since the university makes a mostly unconditional one to them, but I don't have any expectation that these high level recruits will stay all four years. If they are ready to go pro after 3 years, then I think they absolutely should.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1845]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2788
Joined: 12/14/15
|
Re: I just think it's poor form for an athlete to whine
Jan 8, 2018, 2:34 PM
|
|
Once again, I disagree. To say the fans are the reason these kids get full rides and other stuff isn't true. There are colleges that give full rides and scholarships that don't have 90K in the seats every week. Many kids from small colleges go on to play in the pros.
I think you are giving us fans more credit than we deserve.
And the part about honoring a commitment, there are coaches who leave before their contracts have been fulfilled all the time. Do the fans pay for those multi million dollar buyouts for the coaches to leave the school?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1845]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2788
Joined: 12/14/15
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I don't expect a player to make decisions based on what
Jan 8, 2018, 12:25 PM
|
|
random fans say on a message board. In fact, it would be foolish to do so. But players would also be foolish not to have, somewhere in their circle of trusted people, the opinion of someone who isn't trying to be their agent, friend, part of their posse, etc. Someone who isn't just looking at it from a football perspective, and from a long-term life perspective.
And none of this concerns me. I just think it's silly for 20 year-olds to get offended by fans who support them and care about them to have an opinion, and voice it online.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [406]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 208
Joined: 11/10/08
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6219]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8860
Joined: 5/30/01
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 11:50 AM
|
|
Disagree.
You can disagree with a player’s decision, but ultimately it’s their decision and a real Clemson fan should be supportive. Acting as if you know what’s best for someone else is pretty obnoxious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Did you read my post?
Jan 8, 2018, 11:54 AM
|
|
I said twice that we don't claim to know what is best for them.
Having an opinion that is different from a player's is not the same thing as a lack of support.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Who is making that argument?
Jan 8, 2018, 12:06 PM
|
|
I haven't seen anyone be selfish here. I think we all feel confident about our football team whether Ray Ray, Van, etc. stay or go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15526]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 21415
Joined: 9/24/07
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 11:50 AM
|
|
Very well said, Judge!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2236]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2424
Joined: 9/9/02
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 11:50 AM
|
|
All these young guys are biting on the new term everyone is floating around "generational wealth". Yes a contract of 1 or 2 million may be life altering for some of these kids but they better invest it wisely.
Best of luck to them regardless but I get your point and agree as well. I'm 44 and wished someone would've talked to me about $$$ and sound decisions when I was 21! Now I'm trying to show my 12 & 15 yr old how not to be as adults!
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
I'm sure by invest you mean
Jan 8, 2018, 11:53 AM
|
|
immediately purchase a new Mercedes G-Wagon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1845]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2788
Joined: 12/14/15
|
Re: I'm sure by invest you mean
Jan 8, 2018, 12:26 PM
|
|
A Mercedes G Wagon isn't really that much of an expense for Deshaun and Mike (the two that I know that have them) compared to their contract and their endorsement deals.
I know you're not making this assumption, but I think it's so crazy to assume that all of these kids are going to go broke and make bad decisions just because athletes have done it in the past.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16251]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
I'm really happy to see Deshaun in that G Wagon -
Jan 8, 2018, 2:35 PM
|
|
it looks like as safe a ride as you can get, and DW4 needs to protect his physical assets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
"we care about you as people"
Jan 8, 2018, 11:51 AM
|
|
So we want you to stay to help us win more football games!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
That's not true at all.
Jan 8, 2018, 11:57 AM
|
|
I have zero issue with players leaving early. My ideal would be that they at least have their degree first, but regardless, it's their decision.
There is no denying that it is a huge risk to leave early without a degree, and without a very good guarantee that they will be selected in the first few rounds of the draft.
Regardless, I will support them - but it doesn't mean I will always think it is a good decision from a football perspective.
And again, it's ultimately their decision since they know personal details we never will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
I'll be honest.
Jan 8, 2018, 12:01 PM
|
|
I'm not reading all of that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
That's fine. You should probably stop responding then.***
Jan 8, 2018, 12:11 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
Ok I read your long ### reply
Jan 8, 2018, 2:30 PM
|
|
and you said nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5093]
TigerPulse: 42%
Posts: 17074
Joined: 7/19/05
|
Re: That's not true at all.
Jan 8, 2018, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to That's not true at all. ] |
|
You can always come back to college. You can’t guarantee another shot at a professional sport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1845]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2788
Joined: 12/14/15
|
Re: That's not true at all.
Jan 8, 2018, 2:38 PM
|
|
This is 100% true. Athletes can always come back and get their degrees, they do it all the time. I wanna say that players can even come back and finish for free. The chance to go earn this type of money is not something that many people can do, so it's very smart for them to earn it while they can
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22127]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5026
Joined: 2/25/13
|
Re: That's not true at all.
Jan 8, 2018, 1:43 PM
[ in reply to That's not true at all. ] |
|
Prior to this thread, I saw little or no suggestion that a player should or should not forfeit their fourth year to go pro. I saw a lot of suggestions one should consider in the final decision and GOOD advice should never be totally ignored. The final decision rests entirely with the player and we are not privy to his personal problems or interests. It may appear to be a selfish motive when we desire a player to return for his senior year but, in essence, it is a compliment. It signifies to the player we believe him to be an important cog in our continued success. Unless there are character or other issues, I doubt many Tiger fans would wish a player to be gone.
The lure of sudden riches often clouds our thought processes. How many of us have dreams of winning the big lottery, even when the odds of winning are astronomical? Common sense should tell us to forego buying a ticket and, instead, put the money in our piggy bank. But, how many of us would listen to common sense? For some players, returning for their senior year and getting their degree just might be their piggy bank.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12943]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6228
Joined: 1/26/16
|
what is the point of this post?***
Jan 8, 2018, 11:54 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
To kill as much time before lunch, obviously.***
Jan 8, 2018, 11:56 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [23994]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10557
Joined: 6/28/17
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 11:55 AM
|
|
I don't see our fans saying Christian Wilkens, Clelin Ferrel, or Austin Bryant should stay a year...why? Because they are ready for the NFL. It's easy to chase the $$ signs for the NFL but chances are you won't make it. Best to get that degree, maybe even stay for a graduate degree since undergrad degrees are essentially becoming the new high school diploma, if you're on the edge of a 5th,6th, or 7th round pick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Yes, the hundreds of posts about players leaving early
Jan 8, 2018, 11:57 AM
|
|
are completely different compared to other teams' boards with hundreds of posts
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
You disagree that almost all of our fans genuinely want what
Jan 8, 2018, 12:03 PM
|
|
is best for our players?
I haven't seen anyone here being selfish about wanting guys to stay simply for the sake of our football team. But I have seen a lot of posts questioning some of the decisions when guys are unlikely to be drafted at all.
It is certainly a personal decision, and we don't know all the facts, but how much sense does it make for a guy to turn pro, leave behind a free education and a college degree, for a best case scenario of being a late round draft pick or an undrafted free agent with nothing guaranteed? Chances are, they will be left with no job and no college degree. That should be a scary prospect for them.
It would be interesting to look at all of the guys who went pro early without degrees, and see how they did in the NFL and since the NFL (if they even made it at all). What kind of jobs do they have? What kind of money are they making? What are their lives like? And most importantly, do they regret their decision to leave early or are they glad they did?
I read that something like 30% of early entrants in the NFL draft don't make a team. That is staggering.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30813]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 34493
Joined: 6/22/03
|
Yes, I disagree***
Jan 8, 2018, 12:21 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5093]
TigerPulse: 42%
Posts: 17074
Joined: 7/19/05
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9664]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11414
Joined: 9/10/99
|
From his point of view...
Jan 8, 2018, 12:43 PM
|
|
Can you imagine the number of “fans” that have shared via many social media outlets things like:
“You’re making a stupid decision...”
And even more likely
“I told you so...”
after he went undrafted. I’m sure it got old...
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I get it, it would annoy me too. But those fans are a huge
Jan 8, 2018, 1:42 PM
|
|
minority. He should be careful stereotyping a fan base.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58411]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46322
Joined: 4/23/00
|
"But we do know that an uninformed decision to go pro early
Jan 8, 2018, 12:43 PM
|
|
..."
Unless you know the player, any opinion that anybody on here has regarding players leaving early is, by definition, uninformed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
If a player does not have a degree, and is not guaranteed to
Jan 8, 2018, 1:46 PM
|
|
be a high draft pick, then it is absolutely, 100% a risk to leave early. That is true, regardless of any other factors to which we are not privy.
I understand that some of these guys grew up without much, and are perhaps thinking about how they can cash in now to help their families. That is obviously an important factor for some. But it still doesn't change the fact that it is still a risk to go pro early if you aren't guaranteed of being a high pick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
You sure have a way of posting as little as possible
Jan 8, 2018, 2:33 PM
|
|
using the most words possible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5093]
TigerPulse: 42%
Posts: 17074
Joined: 7/19/05
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 12:51 PM
|
|
You’re really kidding yourself if you believe any fan base puts the players first over their self interest in having the best team possible.
That isn’t just a Clemson critique. It applies to every school. Fans are selfish.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
Jan 8, 2018, 1:51 PM
|
|
The Clemson fans I know fully understand if a player leaves early for the NFL if he is going to be a high draft pick. We all understand the climate in college (and pro) athletics these days. Sure, we want to see our college team do well, but we don't expect the truly elite players to stay all four years.
At Clemson, we are in the position of knowing that the guy who is currently a backup is very talented and can mostly step in without much of a drop off. Perhaps that isn't the case at South Carolina, and you have seen different responses from your fellow Gamecock fans when a guy goes pro early.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1261]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 1994
Joined: 4/28/14
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 1:08 PM
|
|
I love all our players and like you said want the best for them and yes there are fans that think they know better than coaches players and etc but every fan base has those. I want ALL clemson players to have great careers in football or outside of football. I know what he was trying to say bc a lot of fans and me as well make comments like he should prob stay he needs to improve in this area but I know atleast Me I'm not trying to put them down just my thoughts and that it could improve their draft spot by staying. I mean no disrespect or knocking players ability when I say those things and also not a fan that just wants guys back bc we get them for a extra year. Bc its college football if I were to get upset about turnover I need to get another hobby haha it's one of the drawbacks of being a elite program we are going to have higher turnover then less successful programs. Also kinda surprises me that Scott is saying that considering he has been on practice squad all year( not knocking scott I love Tay to death he was one of my favorite guys he worked hard never got in trouble and performed) but he is one that maybe should have stayed but who knows how it would have went with him staying just saying feel like he be telling guys to really think about leaving early bc you can't go back. Go Tigers!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14090]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 25448
Joined: 7/28/05
|
Sorry but you don’t own the players, nor does Clemson...
Jan 8, 2018, 1:26 PM
|
|
Pathetic that your blasting players that led us to our first national title in 35 years. These young men came to Clemson and worked their a**es off for us. This is a free country and they have the right to make decisions for their own life. There are more than enough non athlete students that either don’t finish up at the school they started or didn’t finish up at all. Athletes have the same right as all the other students at a university. They don’t have to stay a full four or five years just because they happen to be a talented athlete.
Get a life man, seriously. These are 18-22 year olds playing what is nothing more than a game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Who said I think I own players?!?
Jan 8, 2018, 1:57 PM
|
|
If you read my post more carefully, you would've noticed that I said TWICE that it is ultimately the player's decision and that I support them.
I'm not blasting anyone. The one doing the blasting is Artavis Scott. In case you missed it, I was responding to a tweet he made about Clemson fans not supporting players' decisions.
The point of my post, which clearly went over your head, is that we support them so much that we are not only looking at it from a football perspective, but from a life perspective. It doesn't mean we are right, and I certainly don't expect them to listen to us on message boards, but I do think it is short-sighted for them to expect all fans to unconditionally agree with every decision they make - especially when most of us have a lot more life and career experience than they do.
You need to get a life, and also start posting with a little more thought and respect for others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16134]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26435
Joined: 11/18/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14090]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 25448
Joined: 7/28/05
|
Artavis Scott got his degree dumba*****
Jan 8, 2018, 1:28 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44041]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32955
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I never said he didn't.
Jan 8, 2018, 1:58 PM
|
|
And no need for name calling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2248]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3227
Joined: 10/29/17
|
Re: For Artavis Scott and any other players who don't like fans
Jan 8, 2018, 2:25 PM
|
|
I think that most fans want to be supportive, but I also doubt that players appreciate hearing that they are making a mistake in a decision that we know little about. Whether or not you care to admit it, there has been considerable criticism of Ray Ray and Van over the last few days and I imagine they have heard at least some of it. I hope that they have realistic expectations and Clemson certainly has the support staff to give them a realistic view. I don't expect either of them to be NFL stars (although I hope I am wrong), but maybe they are not counting on that either.
I think that everyone makes the assumption that you only go pro if you are going to be a high draft pick, but why should that be the case? Maybe they think that worse case scenario that they make the practice squad. The salary for the practice squad is $117,300 which is far more than I have made in a year with my degree, and would certainly be more than they would start out with anywhere else. Does their chance of making a team go up if they play another year? Ok, they are gambling that they will have to take out a student loan to finish their degree if football does not work out, but college would still be an option. All Americans can get insurance policies against injury, but is that an option for lower rated players? For the ones without that option, should they gamble that they might get hurt if the NFL is about as likely this year as next?
It is natural for us to have opinions, and I think that the young men should understand that we are almost like parents in wanting the best for them even when we question their actions. At the same time, nobody likes hearing that they are wrong, especially when right or wrong is still in question. We should keep that in mind when voicing our opinions and choose our words carefully. After all, we are not the ones who have to answer to those decisions. I, like nearly all of the Clemson fans, hope that all of the young men fortunate enough to have this decision will choose what is best for them. I also hope that they will keep in mind that even if they are not as successful as they hoped, that it does not mean that they were wrong. Enjoy the process, learn from the good and the bad, and they will be better young men for it in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 52
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
