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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Federal Bureaucrats vs DJT
Nov 13, 2019, 9:59 AM
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Steve Bannon's original vision for DJT was to destroy the administrative state and it is blowing up in their faces bigly.
The American public is about to get a lesson in the entrenched power of US foreign service professionals. People have no idea how seriously these people take their jobs. They have reached the apex of their careers in DC and have built reputations and relationships around the world on our behalf. Trump's biggest mistake was treating their service like that of his hotel and resort staff, who he is more than happy to just fire at will.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Federal Bureaucrats vs DJT
Nov 13, 2019, 10:01 AM
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The American public doesn't care. This whole impeachment thing is a waste of time.
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CU Medallion [60036]
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Very True and you better hope he is impeached
Nov 13, 2019, 10:05 AM
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and run out of the White House with overwhelming evidence. If not, this is going to blow up bigly and elections will cause results that you are more than likely not too fond of moving forward.
However, he will never be impeached and this theater will continue and help us pass time till the Holidays arrive.
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CU Guru [1405]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Federal Bureaucrats vs DJT
Nov 13, 2019, 10:40 AM
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Youre naive. It wont change a thing.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Polls have not moved significantly and the Defense has not
Nov 13, 2019, 11:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: Federal Bureaucrats vs DJT ] |
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been allowed to call one single witness yet.
Just wait until it gets to the Republican controlled Senate and Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, maybe even Hillary and Barry are called as witnesses.
We are talking about a phone call that asked a foreign government to investigate a CRIME.
The crime of theft of $1.6 BILLION dollars of American taxpayer money.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Polls have not moved significantly and the Defense has not
Nov 14, 2019, 7:23 PM
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been allowed to call one single witness yet.
Just wait until it gets to the Republican controlled Senate and Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, maybe even Hillary and Barry are called as witnesses.
We are talking about a phone call that asked a foreign government to investigate a CRIME.
The crime of theft of $1.6 BILLION dollars of American taxpayer money.
What $1.6 Billion dollars? Do you get that from Hannity?? Or maybe THIS website. It's a Russian website and it's bs.
https://www.forumdaily.com/en/bajdena-obvinyayut-v-krazhe-18-mlrd-prednaznachennyx-dlya-ukrainy/
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Commissioner [941]
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Re: Federal Bureaucrats vs DJT
Nov 13, 2019, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Federal Bureaucrats vs DJT ] |
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Polls said that Clinton would be President … Bigly!
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Heisman Winner [112363]
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Agreed on it's a waste of time/money. I think...........
Nov 13, 2019, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Federal Bureaucrats vs DJT ] |
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we all know how this ends. The House will vote to impeach and The Senate will kill it.
Most likely it will put him back in office in 2020.
#ABC
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Agreed on it's a waste of time/money. I think...........
Nov 13, 2019, 11:07 AM
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Exactly. Case closed. Its a big waste of time.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Some take their oath to defend The Constitution seriously
Nov 13, 2019, 10:23 AM
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and are serious about their careers and their lives' work.
Others think it's a joke.
Some people are pretending public hearings and impeachment are no big deal. We'll see about that. They should be reminded that this has only happened twice before in our nation's 243 year history and never for corruption on such a scale as this. It's difficult to keep this level of corruption a secret when so many people who are in on the scam are openly discussing it.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Some take their oath to defend The Constitution seriously
Nov 13, 2019, 10:43 AM
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90% of America wont know anything about it, nor care. They wont watch. They dont care. They will take a piece of dung Trump iver open borders. The difference between parties is so extreme, that they it all doesnt matter. It's a big waste of time.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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You could not be more wrong.
Nov 13, 2019, 10:54 AM
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no matter how many times you repeat it.
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Joined: 7/3/07
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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At this point, is there a swing vote?
Nov 13, 2019, 1:19 PM
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Trump is probably the most polarizing candidate the US has ever had.
I don't how there could be anybody who has watched any television or has seen any internet news in the last 3 years that could be all "Yeah..I don't know if I want to vote for Trump or not."
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Standout [347]
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This is true. Everyone has made up their minds already.
Nov 13, 2019, 3:21 PM
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I am planning to vote against Trump. However if the Dems run a candidate like Bernie, I might think twice about that choice.
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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its been attempted on 5 of the last 6 Republican President
Nov 13, 2019, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to Some take their oath to defend The Constitution seriously ] |
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look it up.
Its the Democrat playbook. If you cant win elections, kick and scream and try to impeach. Some have just advanced farther than others.
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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What?
Nov 13, 2019, 12:11 PM
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Trump, Nixon, and Clinton are the only presidents in the last 150 years to go through formal impeachment investigations.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Everey Republican president since Eisenhower except for Ford
Nov 13, 2019, 1:30 PM
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has been brought up on articles of impeachment by Democrats.
Look it up.
Trump was threatened with impeachment before he even took office, and has had Democrats introduce articles of impeachment 5 times.
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All-In [42139]
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This is a silly claim.
Nov 13, 2019, 3:38 PM
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Excluding Nixon, those were fringe articles introduced by a few select Dem Congressmen looking to get attention. None of them were taken seriously by the Democratic Party and were summarily dismissed.. They don't compare anywhere to what's happening now.
You're proving you are parroting Fox News. Act more like a Libertarian.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Formal yes, which is why I said most dont make it this far
Nov 13, 2019, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to What? ] |
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but impeachment bills have been submitted to the House for every Republican President except Ford.
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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Legend [18018]
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All-In [28802]
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That's not quite what that says
Nov 13, 2019, 2:39 PM
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Anyway, it's a stupid argument that people are making considering how varied the seriousness of the different efforts were. It's just another example of the way cynical people are unable to take anything seriously.
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Legend [18018]
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Correct.***
Nov 13, 2019, 2:42 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97704]
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Honestly, every President who has failed to enforce
Nov 13, 2019, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Some take their oath to defend The Constitution seriously ] |
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immigration law has violated the Constitution, for decades now. Both parties. GHWB, Clinton, GWB, Obama, and now Trump. All have failed to enforce United States immigration laws as passed by Congress, and thereby defied the Constitution.
The way this is SUPPOSED to work is Congress passes the laws, and the President signs, then enforces those laws in the executive branch. When the people disagree with a law, or the enforcement of the law as passed by Congress, Congress must vote to repeal the law, or reform the law. Then the President and the executive branch enforces the new law. If the people don't like it, then Congress passes reform legislation. This is how the Constitution was intended to work. But who are we kidding.....
That process has totally broken down. The President chooses how to enforce immigration laws almost totally at their discretion now.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Oculus Spirit [97704]
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Stopped at ridiculous.
Nov 13, 2019, 3:16 PM
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I mean if you want to equate border security and immigration law to the crime of selling ("Turkey Ham" as "Ham Turkey" or with the words "Turkey" and "Ham" in different fonts) by all means go right ahead.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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what Federal Bureaucrats need to remember
Nov 13, 2019, 11:02 AM
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is the the President of the United States sets and executes the foriegn policy of the country (save advice and consent of the Senate on treaties.)
They serve at HIS/HER pleasure. IF they dont like a foriegn policy directive.....find a new job. Vote for someone else.
Quid Pro Quo? That is basis for ALL US aid. We will give you the hard earned money of the American people for your friendship etc.
And this notion that Biden is off limits because he is a political opponent? What is Pelosi doing? is Trump not her political opponent? I would say that Trump v Pelosi is more of political opponent than Trump v Biden. She is using HER power as the head of one of the legislative Branches to remove a political opponent (who happens to head the executive branch)
Lets roll. I cannot WAIT until this reaches the Senate and see the witness list from the defense. Remember this circus has been and will be controlled by the house Dems. No witnesses for the President can be called without approval by Schiff.
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110%er [5854]
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Re: what Federal Bureaucrats need to remember
Nov 13, 2019, 12:32 PM
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"Friendship Etc"? Does that include investigating American citizens and/or political opponents?
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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investigating the theft of $1.6 Billion from US taxpayers***
Nov 13, 2019, 1:29 PM
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All-In [28802]
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You're confusing what's at issue here
Nov 13, 2019, 2:36 PM
[ in reply to what Federal Bureaucrats need to remember ] |
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Trump never should have tried to argue there wasn't quid pro quo. As you said, that approach is common in foreign policy. What's not common, however, is when the quid is offered for the quo of personal political gain, rather than anything that's in the nation's best interest. I'm not sure Trump understands that, or even cares to think about it. But Congress now needs to decide whether what it's sounding more and more like Trump actually did is worth impeaching him and removing him from office.
I wonder if those who love Trump can be fair enough with themselves to acknowledge that what he was doing with Ukraine and Biden was wrong and stupid, even if they don't think he should be impeached over it. But maybe that kind of fairness isn't in the nature of love.
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Oculus Spirit [93658]
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There's half a dozen things that need to be investigated...
Nov 13, 2019, 4:34 PM
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in Ukraine. How anyone can assume the POTUS motive was only to investigate Biden is beyond me and the thought that Trump offered Zelenskyy a deal is voided by the fact that Zelenskyy had no knowledge that the money was delayed, the money was released before the deadline to release it without Ukraine investigating Biden.
Did Trump have political motivations? As anyone who has kept up with news can see, this is a matter of opinion. None of this would happen in a court of law.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: what Federal Bureaucrats need to remember
Nov 14, 2019, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to what Federal Bureaucrats need to remember ] |
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I agree, the President does set foreign policy...some of it. Congress appropriates aid or it does not. The President can't appropriate a dime. But it is true that he sets the direction and the state dept. employees do work at his pleasure, no doubt. And if they don't like the Presidents foreign policy then they should leave. I believe that Mr. Kent testified the other day that he had served under 3 Republican and 2 Democrat President as had Ambassador Taylor.
I also agree that Quid Pro Quo is the basis of all foreign aid, but not in the sense that you mean it.
It literally means "something for something" in Latin. That 'something' has always been to promote U.S. interests. But Trump is the first President in our history to insist that that 'something' be personal. He witheld that money for 55 days and didn't release it until 2 days after the whilstleblower complaint surfaced. That is taxpayer, Congressionally appropriated money. No President no matter the party can use it for his own personal political gains.
I agree that Biden shouldn't be off limits, but only if he has clearly done something illegal. This is likely the first time in U.S. history that a sitting President asked a foreign govt. to 'investigate' a private U.S. citizen. Ever. Politics be ######, that's just wrong. I doubt you'll find that Trump has asked other countries to investigate other Americans. It is no coincidence that Biden's father is running for President. That is a violation of Trump's oath of office.
Finally, Ukraine has been under military attack by Russia for 4 years. Russia now occupies 7% of Ukraine, and area about the size of Texas. Ukrainian soldiers are being killed everyday in their own country. It is at this moment that this President thought it was wise to back them into a corner and withhold military aid they need to survive, to force them to smear a personal political opponent. It is also, clearly bribery/extortion if true.
This is America, this is NOT Honduras. We do not do that to countries who are our allies. Now, we can talk politics all day long, disagree and shake hands. But what Trump has done personally with the power of his office is unconscionable and unamerican if proven to be true.
Message was edited by: Felix2®
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All-In [28802]
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Hard to tell whether this is meant to be pro or anti-Trump
Nov 13, 2019, 2:31 PM
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Maybe it's just a factual observation, in which case I think you're overestimating how much anybody cares about the self regard of "foreign service professionals." This is the same mistake that Trump lovers make.
In general, I think elected people should respect the opinions of their staff and should take their jobs seriously. However, the staff is just there to advise elected people and to implement the directives of elected people, not to govern. Haphazard, capricious, and self-serving directives like the ones that have come from Trump surely make life hard for the foreign service. If there's been a reaction against Trump from these people, then I think it's much more likely to be about incompetence than it is about some sort of intra-government power dispute.
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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you got it
Nov 13, 2019, 5:45 PM
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I'm basing my assessment on personal relationships with people in those offices. Trump totally doesn't understand how much they care about the Country and their work, so when he comes in and disrupts many years of difficult efforts to sustain America's standing and credibility around the world, it's no surprise that they were ready to drop a dime at the first opportunity.
Had this been anyone else, who maybe didn't do so much damage with his own mouth, and twitter feed, I seriously doubt there would be so many Intelligence, State Department and Pentagon careerists willing to spill the beans on this guy. Nothing would have happened.
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Oculus Spirit [93658]
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Why do we hold presidental elections?
Nov 13, 2019, 4:28 PM
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When you figure that out let me know.
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All-In [28802]
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I've been wondering that, too, after Trump's nomination***
Nov 13, 2019, 4:30 PM
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