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Hall of Famer [21848]
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FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 8:57 AM
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how do we lose to duke? frigging duke? I understand a midweek slip now and again because you aren't throwing your best pitching out there. But to get our butt kicked by duke, even if it is a DH, is ridiculous. Plus is it just me or is watching Tiger baseball nowhere near as exciting as it was 10 years ago? No long-ball(on pace for our TEAM to hit LESS HR's than khalil greene hit in one season by himself), excessive bunting to "advance runners".
Please don't give me the jack is a legend speech and look what he's done for the program, blah blah blah. I'm not excited about the current state of our program and that is the most disappointing thing of all. He has had some great seasons in the past but unfortunately has not kept up with the times and is not winning the way I expect him to.
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!! FIRE HOLBROOK
Mar 25, 2013, 9:08 AM
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Swept at home! What other coach has take his team to the CWS every at least 4 years since 85? Every sr class has made it!
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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Why would I care about Holbrook???***
Mar 25, 2013, 9:12 AM
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Team Captain [456]
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Legend [16902]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 9:43 AM
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I can tell you pay a lot of attention to college baseball since you don't know any reason why you might be seeing less longball these days. Must be Jack's fault that the NCAA deliberately deadened bats to reduce home runs. I can't imagine why a coach would want to be aggressive on the bases in a dead bat era. Strong arguments.
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CU Guru [1345]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 9:50 AM
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Just goes to show you don't have to know anything to post on any internet venue. The bat issue was for safety, not homeruns or so said the ncaa.
#### it somebody beat me to the FIRE HOLBROOK post.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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The NCAA***
Mar 25, 2013, 9:54 AM
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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The NCAA's started the bat deadening to reduce scoring
Mar 25, 2013, 9:56 AM
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after the CWS final between Arizona St and Souther Cal was something like 21-17. The scores were getting comical with all the technology in the bats.
"Safety" is a positive ancillary benefit though. Safety was the reason they banned the ceramic bats though.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 10:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: FIRE JACK!!!! ] |
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If the net effect is a deadened bat then what is the difference? The OP obviously unaware that home runs are down across the sport. But, I'm conceding the issue because I've always read it was about reducing scoring. Throwing in the safety issues just made it easier to get it ratified.
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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HAHA...
Mar 25, 2013, 10:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: FIRE JACK!!!! ] |
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the "dead bat era" seems to really be affecting traditional powerhouses like mercer, citadel, app st., samford(I can keep going)closing in on our expected season total.
We hit 48 and 44 in '11 and '12. So yes totals are down and Jack has always pulled his "agressive" baserunning crap by sac bunting.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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HRs are down from about .9/game to .5/game
Mar 25, 2013, 10:07 AM
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with the introduction of the BBCor bats. ERA is down about a point and a half socring is down about 2 runs/game.
Thats from the NCAA's own statistics.
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Legend [16902]
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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How am I wrong?
Mar 25, 2013, 10:13 AM
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are those teams I named not closing in on the projected totals for this years team?
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Legend [16902]
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Re: How am I wrong?
Mar 25, 2013, 10:35 AM
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What projected totals? I am not digging up SoCon stats to entertain your line of thinking. You asked why watching wasn't as fun as 10 years ago when you saw more long balls. I have you a fact based answer and provided a link to a source. Homeruns are down across all division 1 - period. If you have time to dig into Mercer stats and have found an outlier then bully for you. The fact remains that we hit less homeruns in large part because of the bats - like the rest of D1.
As for base running aggressiveness, we're averaging 2.2 steal attempts per game this season. According to the stats on the baseball cube, we averaged 1.5 steals per game from 2002-2010. A .7 per game increase might not strike you as much, but it is a 46% increase in stolen base attempts this season over the average. So your assertion that it is same old Jack is also false.
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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HR's are down....
Mar 25, 2013, 10:58 AM
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However, since 2011 when the new standard was put in place we hit 48 and 44 homeruns, as I mentioned earlier. This year we are on pace for 25....regardless of bat standards a near 50% drop is bad.
My other point is on the NCAA website there are freaking socom teams that have almost surpassed our projected yearly totals.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/baseball/d1/current/team/513
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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The problem with comparing projections
Mar 25, 2013, 11:51 AM
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is that we've played 9 games (12 after this weekend) of teams with ERAs in the top 20. How many SoCon teams have done that? Almost half of our games have been against teams with ERAs less than 2.5. FSU is the only other staff we face that will have those kinds of arms.
Sure our HR power is down significantly. We knew that going in. But even with facing the highest level pitching our runs per game and our average is basically the same as last year. All three of those stats should improve as we face more "median" pitching. Total bases look to be up and steals are way up per game.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: The problem with comparing projections
Mar 25, 2013, 11:59 AM
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Should also help as things warm up.
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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110%er [6937]
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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We had problems getting past 2nd last year
Mar 25, 2013, 12:34 PM
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so I would assume that you are right about that. 
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110%er [6937]
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Re:LOL.***
Mar 25, 2013, 12:38 PM
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Legend [16902]
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Re: HR's are down....
Mar 25, 2013, 11:58 AM
[ in reply to HR's are down.... ] |
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I thought you were making a much bigger statement about Jack and the state of the program than just this seasons homeruns stats. Where are you finding 2012 season stats? I usually use baseballcube.net but their 2012 stats are not right. Homeruns are down but it isn't even halfway through the season. Why don't you see what happens? We have a huge week coming up. Under the current RPI we are ranked as having the 7th hardest strength of schedule in the country. No one else in the top 10 schedule rank has as many wins as we do.
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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Re: HR's are down....
Mar 25, 2013, 12:10 PM
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those were just a few things that came to my mind that frustrate me. Jack has done well as the head coach at Clemson. And there are many colleges around the nation that would like his "consistency" but I'm ready to get over the hump. Our program has gotten stagnant. And generally in life when things get stagnant its time to mix it up and change.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Dang, I thought it was the facilities. Oh well, we
Mar 25, 2013, 10:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: HAHA... ] |
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can use that next time.
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All-In [47802]
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Jack is awesome!
Mar 25, 2013, 9:53 AM
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Just ask him, he'll tell ya.
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Scout Team [173]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 9:59 AM
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If you follow baseball you know that this sort of thing happens in the best programs at all level. A three game sweep is a difficult task under the best of circumstances. However, I am sure Jack is upset that he has not met your expectations.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 10:16 AM
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I would further say that going 4-1 against any opponents at any level of the sport is a good week.
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 10:09 AM
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Fair weather fan?
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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Nope I've wanted to get rid of Jack for a while.***
Mar 25, 2013, 10:14 AM
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Rooter [234]
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Good Coach - cant recruit without Sullivan
Mar 25, 2013, 10:15 AM
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See Brownell - to compete in big boy leagues you need player and sound scheme
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Re: Good Coach - cant recruit without Sullivan
Mar 25, 2013, 10:39 AM
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I think you're off there.
Our recruiting class this year was in the top 10 or so in the country.
Jack has other issues though. In-game decisions have seemed pretty bad for the last several years, nobody on the team seems to be able to bunt worth a crap, etc.
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 10:21 AM
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Wow, really on a week the Tigers go 4 and 1. That's an 80% win rate. In baseball name me one team that has ever sustained an 80% win rate for the season. The answer to that is NONE. Get a clue before you rant.
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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You should check your facts....
Mar 25, 2013, 10:54 AM
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Ray Tanner did it with our rival in 2000. 84.8%. Maybe you should get a clue before posting 100% FALSE claims.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Some of these apologists love to fudge with the stats.***
Mar 25, 2013, 12:35 PM
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Freshman [3]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 10:27 AM
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your a ####
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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Re: FIRE JACK!!!!
Mar 25, 2013, 10:54 AM
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thank you for your insight....
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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btw.....
Mar 25, 2013, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: FIRE JACK!!!! ] |
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It's you're. dumba$$
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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You are clueless about the Clemson baseball program
Mar 25, 2013, 10:32 AM
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The team didn't play poorly in the loss. 2 guys pitched poorly. There were no bad coaching moves that cost them the game. Your home run comment is a joke if you pay attention to college baseball. Teams that "advanced runners" in the last 3 years have won the national championship so clearly it's a bad move.
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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Last time I checked....
Mar 25, 2013, 11:02 AM
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Pitchers are part of the team.....
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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Let's look at this a different way....
Mar 25, 2013, 11:14 AM
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From 1997-2012(Ray Tanner started at usuc in '97)
Jack's record was 685-404-1(63% win) with 4 CWS appearances and was never able to get a team to the champ. series.
Ray's record was 738-316(70% win) with 6 CWS appearances including 4 champ. series appearances with 2 NC's.
Who did better in that time-frame???
Is it so bad of me to want to outperform our biggest rival? usuc has owned jack when it counts and that's pitiful as a Clemson fan. And again this year its the same ol crap with them taking 2/3 including at our house.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Let's look at this a different way....
Mar 25, 2013, 11:35 AM
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How much money did South Carolina give Ray to work with versus what Clemson gave Jack in that same time frame? These things don't happen in a vacuum. Also, baseball is only a partial scholarship making a big cost difference between the schools. For someone possibly forgoing a signing bonus and going to the pros this is no small issue. We can keep burying our heads in the sand, fire Jack then really watch the wheels come off this thing. We are losing to them in virtually everything! And this is more an administrative problem than a SEC money problem. SEC money is going to exacerbate the problem if things don't change though.
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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I'd love to see the numbers....***
Mar 25, 2013, 11:37 AM
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Legend [16902]
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Re: I'd love to see the numbers....***
Mar 25, 2013, 11:46 AM
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I've never been able to find a breakdown of baseball expenses for either program. Everything I find just lumps it in to everything not football or basketball. Carolina outspends us on salaries and facilities annually for these sports by a more than 2:1 margin but they also field more sports than Clemson. All I know is that Carolina Stadium alone had a public price tag of $35.6 million - probably more than has been spent on Clemson baseball all time combined. Like Jack or not, the disparities will cripple us in everything but football if Clemson doesn't get its act together.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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For comparision purposes
Mar 25, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Hollbrook was a top assistant and UNC and they were able to get him to come for a lateral move and keep him for about 3 head coaching cycles.
We hired a D3 pitching coach.
We have a volunteer assistant coaching 1st (and have had one since Michael Johnson came back). If Dabo was forced to have a GA calling plays people would be ready to storm the ADs office.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: For comparision purposes
Mar 25, 2013, 12:06 PM
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Dumb post. MOST programs have a volunteer coach coaching first base. That's because the NCAA only allows 3 paid baseball coaches. The pitching coach is always in the pen or calling pitches, so that only leaves two. Many Head Coaches opt not to coach a base at all, which leaves only one paid coach to coach first or third. They have no choice but to use the volunteer at first.
Of the teams that do it like Jack does, i.e. Head Coach coaching 3rd, MOST leave the head assistant in the dugout to manage the dugout, etc. South Carolina has done it this way for YEARS. Not sure who is coaching first for them this year, but in the past it has usually been a volunteer assistant, or student assistant.
If Dabo only had 2 paid assistants he wouldn't be coaching football.
> We have a volunteer assistant coaching 1st (and have
> had one since Michael Johnson came back). If Dabo
> was forced to have a GA calling plays people would be
> ready to storm the ADs office.
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110%er [6937]
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Re I think that we can get one out of the stands to coach
Mar 25, 2013, 12:08 PM
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third base. Probably can't do any worse.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Corbin and I think Sully coached 1st before Johnson
Mar 25, 2013, 12:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: For comparision purposes ] |
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so its a relatively recent thing for us. Jacks been coaching 3rd forever.
I'd like to see our pitching coach calling pitches when our first base coach is out there.
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110%er [6937]
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Is the SC expenditure anyway close to the 40 million
Mar 25, 2013, 12:12 PM
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What's your problem? The thing you're referencing was in a discussion with palmetto son - not you. Sorry, the number is closer to $25 million - not the $4.5 he stands by. I've posted links and also showed there is another Davenport field with a $40 million renovation. It was an easy mistake when you're quickly trying to compile info. What exactly are you bringing to the conversation?
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110%er [6937]
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Re:You tend to stretch the truth.***
Mar 25, 2013, 12:17 PM
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Legend [16902]
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Re:You tend to stretch the truth.***
Mar 25, 2013, 12:19 PM
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I'd love to see another example. I tend to go out of my way to provide references when offering stats/facts. Just because something doesn't fit your worldview doesn't make it stretching the truth.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Whatever.***
Mar 25, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Legend [16902]
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Exactly.******
Mar 25, 2013, 12:23 PM
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