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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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FBcoach, I get it.
Mar 26, 2019, 11:55 AM
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You think those who are trying to bring the release of the Mueller to the floor for a vote aren't doing it for political reasons. Read the following carefully so we're really communicating this time, ok?
There was no evidence of collusion so there was no crime to be the focus of obstruction of justice. Had Trump not fired Comey and not spoken out against the 'Witch Hunt,' you're rationalizing that Trump still did something to obstruct justice. Is covering up a bank robbery is obstruction of justice when there no bank was robbed. In this case there wasn't even a bank.
So every prosecutor who fails to pursue every crime that didn't happen and wasn't a crime is guilty of obstruction of justice?
Are you getting a look at the total crock of bullchit that the Dem leaders, MSM, you and some other lunge dems are pumping out? It stinks man, it stinks to high heaven.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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All-In [46816]
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Yea we still aren't on the same page.
Mar 26, 2019, 11:59 AM
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what I'm saying is, if there was no crime, no collusion, no obstruction, nothing, then why isn't Mitch letting the vote go through in the Senate to make the Mueller Report public?
Or is he trying to hide something?
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Yeah, you're back where we started in the other thread where
Mar 26, 2019, 12:03 PM
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you asked why is Mitch making this political, right? You're confusing, not to me but to yourself. You're ignoring that this was brought up for a vote for political purposes and don't want Mitch to play politics so dems can score.
I wish UNC wouldn't play defense in basketball at their house. We might win one there.
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All-In [34580]
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Look, it's simple. Mitch is following the law. You'll get
Mar 26, 2019, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Yea we still aren't on the same page. ] |
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to see the report in due time. We all will. Im shur you will read every page.
But in the meantime, it is an Executive Branch report (given to the Ex Branch). They will decide what to redact.
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110%er [7026]
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110%er [7026]
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Cliffs notes
Mar 26, 2019, 12:28 PM
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Here are some categories of elements that may raise legal or policy concerns about disclosure to Congress or the public:
1. Any highly classified information, such as something that could help the Russian government identify and take out an intelligence source;
2. Anything that remains relevant to an ongoing investigation, such as those that Mr. Mueller spun off to regular prosecutors or the ongoing counterintelligence investigation into Russia;
3. Testimony and files that were presented to the grand jury and so are subject to a federal rule of criminal procedure that generally forbids disclosure of such material absent a court order;
4. Negative information about people whom prosecutors scrutinized but decided not to charge with a crime, which the Justice Department normally does not make public (this is why Mr. Comey’s news conference about Hillary Clinton’s email server was so broadly condemned by other law enforcement officials);
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Lol, since they found no collusion that pretty much...
Mar 26, 2019, 1:07 PM
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eliminates everything in the report. Dems should love this. I wonder if the congressional oversight commit will leak stuff in their copy or if that's heavily redacted too.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: FBcoach, I get it.
Mar 26, 2019, 12:07 PM
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You guys sure are shook for a group who supposedly got such great news.
And it has to kill you that Trump brought healthcare, a proven losing issue for your side, right to the forefront of 2020 today.
Every time the moron gets a win, he steps on his own dong. It's amazing.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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What does this have to do with healthcare?
Mar 26, 2019, 12:10 PM
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Your redirection makes my head spin.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: What does this have to do with healthcare?
Mar 26, 2019, 12:16 PM
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You don't get the connection or do you not understand what a paragraph break does?
I can't imagine you're so dim that you don't get that it is a big deal to bring up a losing political issue when you're supposedly riding high.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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I simply don't know WTH you are talking about.
Mar 26, 2019, 12:18 PM
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I've had to work today; did something miraculous occur?
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Neither does he.***
Mar 26, 2019, 12:19 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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I know arguing with a knucklehead like you is fruitless...
Mar 26, 2019, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: What does this have to do with healthcare? ] |
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but it was your side that started this obstruction conspiracy. I'm just trying to make it obvious.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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It's your side that's pumping an obstruction conspiracy.
Mar 26, 2019, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: FBcoach, I get it. ] |
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Lose one conspiracy and we'll spin another.
signed
Congressional Democrats
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Legend [18018]
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Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby
Mar 26, 2019, 3:09 PM
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both were charged with obstruction of justice without being charged for the underlying (larger) crime they were being investigated about.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/mar/25/martha-stewart-donald-trump-can-there-be-obstructi/
We should all hope the mueller report is released and we get a good sense of where the counterintelligence part of the investigation led as well as the obstruction evidence. Criminal charges-especially as narrowly as Mueller was looking-were always a long shot, but politically the Mueller report could still be disastrous for Trump. (Also the 15+ other investigations going on into Trump...)
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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Keep hope alive***
Mar 26, 2019, 3:19 PM
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Legend [18018]
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ok***
Mar 26, 2019, 3:27 PM
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All-In [38514]
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"There was no evidence of collusion so there was no crime"
Mar 26, 2019, 4:18 PM
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To be fair, did the summary state there was no evidence? Not being charged does not equate to no evidence in any legal matter. Generally it means that the evidence was not sufficient.
So is it wrong then, for the sake of transparency to make the evidence available? If there is nothing there, then there is nothing to hide.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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for 2 yrs adam schiff has said he's seen indisputable
Mar 26, 2019, 4:40 PM
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evidence,still waiting
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All-In [38514]
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Is he more or less wrong than saying there was no evidence?
Mar 26, 2019, 4:44 PM
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Partisans say a lot of stupid things that don't align with facts these days.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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if we're still waiting for the mueller report to come out in
Mar 26, 2019, 4:47 PM
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2 yrs i'll equate it to waiting on schiff
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110%er [7026]
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Again...
Mar 26, 2019, 4:46 PM
[ in reply to "There was no evidence of collusion so there was no crime" ] |
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Here are some categories of elements that may raise legal or policy concerns about disclosure to Congress or the public:
1. Any highly classified information, such as something that could help the Russian government identify and take out an intelligence source;
2. Anything that remains relevant to an ongoing investigation, such as those that Mr. Mueller spun off to regular prosecutors or the ongoing counterintelligence investigation into Russia;
3. Testimony and files that were presented to the grand jury and so are subject to a federal rule of criminal procedure that generally forbids disclosure of such material absent a court order;
4. Negative information about people whom prosecutors scrutinized but decided not to charge with a crime, which the Justice Department normally does not make public (this is why Mr. Comey’s news conference about Hillary Clinton’s email server was so broadly condemned by other law enforcement officials);
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All-In [38514]
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And I agree with that.
Mar 26, 2019, 4:50 PM
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But there seems to be a lot of space between releasing the full report and a 4 page summary.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Was Trump, his family or anyone in his campaign charged...
Mar 26, 2019, 8:20 PM
[ in reply to Again... ] |
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with a crime? I see a vengeful dem house when the report is released and it contains no information concerning Trump, his family and his campaign. This should be another blast.
Eventually, even the reasonable people like Tdrake will realize this is going nowhere.
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All-In [38514]
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The investigation ended as I expected.
Mar 27, 2019, 8:03 AM
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The question is about releasing more of the report. I don't understand why anyone would be against that.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Parts of it reveal personal information about private...
Mar 27, 2019, 8:53 AM
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citizens who have done nothing wrong. A smart man would take all that to a judge to keep himself out of hot legal water. Other parts are methods and personnel involved with the intelligence community, nada. I hope the report includes why names were redacted and not just simple blacked out sections without explanations. Imo, that will make it just more bearable to the general public.
Finding someone guilty of obstruction is nearly impossible if no crime was committed because it's almost impossible to prove motive. All releasing Mueller's suspicions will do is tie the nation up for another two years with baseless accusations, finger pointing, hyperbole and political rants. Read where some ex federal judge made that statement.
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All-In [38514]
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We're long past this:
Mar 27, 2019, 9:45 AM
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"All releasing Mueller's suspicions will do is tie the nation up for another two years with baseless accusations, finger pointing, hyperbole and political rants."
I could even correct that to: "All not releasing Mueller's report will do is tie the nation up for another two years with baseless accusations, finger pointing, hyperbole and political rants."
It's not like Trump and allies aren't making conspiracy theory accusations of a deep state, etc. or doing the same to Hillary, Obama, and Democrats. Unfortunately it appears to be the new normal.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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There are strong indications that the FISA warrant to spy...
Mar 27, 2019, 12:03 PM
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on Carter Page included questionable evidence [Steele paper] and that exculpatory evidence was omitted. Do you not want justice?
I buy your position that the report should be published. Can you concede that perhaps neither hiding nor releasing the report will change how people feel about it. You admit that there's no evidence of collusion yet wonder about obstruction of justice.
How will motive be determined without an underlying crime having been proven.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Have you read Barr's report to congress?
Mar 26, 2019, 7:10 PM
[ in reply to "There was no evidence of collusion so there was no crime" ] |
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"The Special Counsel's investigation did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election. As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities. [1]..."
"1. 1 In assessing potential conspiracy charges, the Special Counsel also considered whether members of the Trump campaign “coordinated” with Russian election interference activities. The Special Counsel defined “coordination” as an “agreement—tacit or express—between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference.”
As I said, no crime then no obstruction of justice. It's hard to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there's no cat in the room. - Vlat Putin
Before anyone can conclude or even speculate on obstruction of justice they must first prove the crime of collusion with Russia by the Trump campaign.
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All-In [38514]
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No crime, no obstruction is legally false.
Mar 27, 2019, 8:22 AM
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But I'd assume that an obstruction case is easier to prove if a crime is proven.
The report addressed criminal charges, which on both counts is difficult to prove. That does not state there was no evidence, only no grounds to charge.
But my point is that I see no reason why more information beyond a 4 page report shouldn't be released. It seems like the "side" that was exonerated would want that more.
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Standout [345]
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Re: FBcoach, I get it.
Mar 26, 2019, 7:45 PM
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There was a possibility of misconduct so an investigation was launched. Interfering with the process of that investigation is obstruction regardless of what it finds in the end. Arguing that because there is no crime there can’t be obstruction doesn’t make sense.
Maybe I’m just not understanding what you are trying to say here.
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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To prove obstruction motive must be proven...
Mar 27, 2019, 12:09 PM
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beyond a reasonable doubt. Judge Napaloton (sp) and other law professional have said that.
"
A federal law makes it a crime to attempt “to influence, obstruct or impede the due administration of justice.”
To prove obstruction, prosecutors must show an individual acted with a “corrupt,” or improper motive - a specific intent to impede an investigation.
Mueller’s obstruction investigation likely focused on Trump’s interactions with former FBI director James Comey, legal experts said.
According to Comey, in February 2017 Trump asked him to back off an investigation into national security adviser Michael Flynn over Flynn’s contacts with Russia. Trump eventually fired Comey in May 2017.
“I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go ... He is a good guy,” Trump told Comey, according to a memo written by the former FBI director.
Some legal experts have said in the last year that Trump’s intent was clearly to block an investigation, and that there was a strong obstruction of justice case to be made.
But others have said that establishing that Trump acted with the “corrupt” intent of blocking the investigation would have been difficult. Trump could have argued he was simply vouching for Flynn’s character, and not pressuring Comey to drop an investigation, these lawyers said.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-obstruction-explaine/explainer-why-an-obstruction-case-against-trump-was-so-difficult-idUSKCN1R604Y
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CU Medallion [60034]
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Re: FBcoach, I get it.
Mar 26, 2019, 8:09 PM
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This whole post was on the assumption that the asshart can do reading comprehension. He can’t. All he is good for is being a pedophile and posting/ranking cheerleaders.
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