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Legend [15492]
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Many have mentioned Hillary Campaign enlisting a foreign
May 11, 2019, 9:36 AM
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govt. in order to get dirt on Trump to influence an American election. This would include the use of Steele w/Russians and Hillary's camp attempting to get dirt on Trump from Ukraine as.
Any objective observer would see these two assertions, if true, to be terribly wrong and anti-American if downright illegal That is, if true.
Now Guiliani, on behalf of Trump is heading to Ukraine in an attempt ask the Ukrainians to dig up dirt on Biden. This would be using a foreign govt in an attempt to influence an upcoming American election by gathering info on a potential opposition candidate. That same thing that Dems have been accused of doing.
Forget the "well they did it so it's ok for us to do it. On it's face that is an incorrect and dishonest assertion. If it's wrong for the Dems/Hillary Campaign to do it, then it's wrong for Trump/Guiliani to do it.
There is no middle ground on this issue. The question is would Trump Supporters/conservative-reps are ok with enlisting help from a foreign govt. to effect the outcome of an election?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-will-travel-to-ukraine-saying-countrys-probes-may-be-very-very-helpful-for-trump
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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"Russia, if you are listening......"
May 11, 2019, 10:17 AM
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Soliciting weapons-grade propaganda to use against opponents is politely termed "opposition research".
Here is the best overview of what happened with Fusion GPS and the Steel Dossier in 2015/16. Both Republicans and Democrats wanted dirt on Trump (and others) and were willing to pay large sums for it. This is the reason the Christopher Steele's of the world exist and I hope they get him to testify in front of the Senate but it is a long shot.
What is interesting is to note how much disagreement there is on the information contained in the reports. This gets to the heart of the problem, what we determine is fact or fiction. I hear a lot of whiny voices on both sides, most of it devoid of actual analysis.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/politics/steele-timeline/?utm_term=.309ff4f9d7db
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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Look at you, up there above the fray and trashy politics!
May 11, 2019, 11:33 AM
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Why did you leave out the fact that our FBI and other intelligence agencies use that opposition research stuff to spy on a political opponent and after four separate investigations found no evidence of any American conspiring with Russia to hack our democracy?
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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FBI and CIA
May 11, 2019, 1:14 PM
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were following leads that a presidential candidate was compromised. Calling it spying is a total mischaracterization and you know it.
They were doing what we pay them to do, which is to defend the constitution.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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Yes, they did opposition research based on...
May 11, 2019, 1:35 PM
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opposition research. They investigated Trump because the Steele dossier was the predicate on their spying. I watched James Bond, I saw the traditional use of the word 'spy.' They always had some patsy like Papadopoulos passing out secrets when the beautiful seductress love him up real good.
The only difference was the FBI's secret agent's advances were rejected by the patsy evidenced by him not repeating what she suggested he say. He wasn't indicted for conspiring with Russia, he spent a few days in jail for lying about what happened. Maybe he wasn't the patsy in the story. Prob because he got a little stink on his stump and didn't want his wife to find out.
This is a classic spy story so don't act like it's dishonest to use the word when it's 100% accurate.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Yes, they did opposition research based on...
May 11, 2019, 10:53 PM
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This isn't true and you know it. That makes you a liar.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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'A man's gotta know his limitations.'
May 12, 2019, 10:22 AM
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I know I can't fix stupid.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: FBI and CIA
May 11, 2019, 1:42 PM
[ in reply to FBI and CIA ] |
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There’s the small matter of fabricating justification for a FISA warrant through a fake dossier that was paid for by the Clinton campaign with money funneled through her lawyers, then given to Fusion GPS, then to Christopher Steele (ex-MI6 agent). And before you cry Conspiracy Theory, know that these details are a matter of congressional record from testimony given by witnesses. This isn’t surveillance, opposition research, etc., it’s malicious intent to infiltrate a campaign to spy on everyone connected: a violation of civil law at a very minimum. It’s real and people are going to jail for it.
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All-In [34531]
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^^^POTD^^^***
May 11, 2019, 2:37 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: FBI and CIA
May 11, 2019, 5:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: FBI and CIA ] |
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Then I will ask you one simple question. WHY HASN'T ANYONE BEEN INDICTED?????
Hillary, broke the law, NO INDICTMENTS.
Comey, broke the law, NO INDICTMENTS.
Brennan, Clapper, Strzuck, Lisa Page, Obama, Erick Holder, ALL, NO INDICTMENTS!!
Manfort, convicted felon
Gates, indicted, awaiting trial.
Papodopolous, convicted.
Flynn, convicted felon, awaiting sentencing.
Michael Cohen, convicted felon, serving in prison.
Roger Stone, indicted, charged with felonies, awaiting trial.
Memphis I rarely respond to your posts because I sincerely believe you are off your rocker.
But in this case, I'd love to hear your 'hannity is my lover, ingraham is my momma and Fox is the new religion BS excuses" as to why no one on this side of the aisle as so much as been indicted (but they're going to jail!) while so many on your side of the aisle have been indicted and most found guilty of felonies.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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The IG's report isn't finished yet and neither is Barr's.
May 11, 2019, 6:13 PM
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These two aren't chickchit bureaucrats who want political points. They are men of law. If they leak the factors of their reports like Comey you'd find they have no teeth. You will know little of nothing until the world comes crashing down on these political liars, leakers and leeches.
Barr told the senate committee that he believe the Hillary thing needed to be looked at. Graham asked the question. Watch the film and you'll end your lack of understanding about this issue.
Again, it's all a Hannity conspiracy theory. Hannity is a talking head who doesn't investigate. John Solomon and Sara Carter uncovered the massive number of unmasking of the Obama administration which caused them to pursue matters regarding the CIA, FBI and Obama Justice Dept.
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Carter Page was on Intel watch list long before
May 11, 2019, 10:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: FBI and CIA ] |
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the campaign, because he had regular contact with Russian intelligence officers and the FISA warrant was issued when he took a prominent role in the Trump campaign.
This is what the FBI counterintelligence division does. There is no malicious intent and the warrant had nothing to do with the so-called Dossier.
They had plenty of evidence pointing at Carter Page as a potential GRU asset, despite being too much of an idiot to actually be useful to them. He was trying to undo the Magnitsky Act for his Moscow patrons, such as Gazprom, Alfa Bank and Rosneft who promised him commissions on stock sale if he succeeded.
Is it any surprise that his defamation lawsuit against the DNC was thrown out?
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/carter-page-keeps-filing-stuff-in-a-lawsuit-he-already-lost/
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Look at you, up there above the fray and trashy politics!
May 11, 2019, 5:30 PM
[ in reply to Look at you, up there above the fray and trashy politics! ] |
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First, let me help you with your preference to take Hannity's talking points over facts...and then representing those points as facts.
1.) The FBI doesn't do opposition research. The investigate situations to determine if a crime has or is being committed. But, you already know that.
2.) Nobody from the intelligence communities "spied" on Trump. This in spite of Mueller documenting over 140 contacts between members of the Trump staff, family, campaign, transition and administration. In many cases, those people lied to investigators about them and have or are going to jail.
3.) I'm not aware of 4 separate investigations, first, and you know as well as I do what the Mueller report said WASN'T there is no evidence of people conspiring but rather they didn't have enough evidence in order to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. For reference, Eric Holders staff clearly came very close to breaking the law and many were fired as they should have been. However, they weren't criminally charged because they didn't have enough evidence to prove a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. On top of that, conspiracy crimes are especially hard to get convictions on.
4. As much as I like you personally my friend. If you just keep coming on here and spreading Hannity's disinformation....I'm going to lose interest in discussing important issues.
5. Is it ok for Trump to send Giuliani to Ukraine to try to get dirt on Biden in order to effect the outcome of a Presidential election?
6. And finally, I didn't bring up the FISA question because it's completely irrelevamt to my question. I didn't bring up any of the Obstruction questions brought by Mueller either...because that subject is irrelevant to my original question.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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TD for making a list with hopes crump notices my intense...
May 11, 2019, 6:03 PM
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efforts to suck up hard.
The FBI was doing opposition research for Hillary. Note Strzok's and Lisa Page's text regarding 'insurance plan,' which was to be executed in the unlikely even that Trump won the POTUS election.
Trump tower was phone tapped, the FBI sent a 'secret agent,' to seduce Papadopoulos, they requested, baited Flynn to speak to them without notifying him of his 5th amendment rights to counsel. I'm not going to argue with you about this if you can't recognize spying. The contacts with Russia were not malicious other than one violation of the Logan act which is almost never prosecuted. Trivial BS.
No excuse for not being honest with the FBI. They deserve to spend time for breaking the law. They should have exercised their 5th amendment rights.
No, you're not aware of the four investigations because you don't keep up like I do. FBI investigation, Senate Oversight investigation, House oversight investigation and Mueller's investigation. No one believed the congressional investigation because the dem and pub reps on those committees had different stories.
If the FBI had evidence of 'collusion,' they would have presented it instead of Comey, Clapper and Brennen strutting around claiming to know something the public doesn't know and saying they've seen the evidence. Same with congressional dems. Evidently the evidence is so secret that even Mueller couldn't find enough to charge any American citizen after digging for two years.
I got none of this from Hannity. I got it from John Solomon, Sara Carter and from gleaning through the committee reports and taking notice to thing that might be contrary to what I wanted to find. You should try that instead of seeking out what suits you, Felix. The Mueller report left you looking like a fool for crying 'collusion,' for two years when he couldn't charge anyone with the crime of conspiring with Russia to fix the election.
They aren't looking for dirt on Biden. The POTUS has every right to investigate an abuse of power like the Ukrainian Gov has claimed Biden has committed. For two years you've claimed this was all about finding out the truth, now you've decided any investigation into a candidate is wrong if Trump is doing it against a prospective opponent. Project much?
We have yet to see the unredacted FISA warrant because Barr isn't a leaker like Comey. He wants the truth not a political scandal which won't hold water.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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110%er [6557]
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Re: TD for making a list with hopes crump notices my intense...
May 11, 2019, 9:12 PM
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Well said. But I think you are wasting your time trying to edify Felix. I have come to the conclusion that he is a troll.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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He and the other 'Collusion delusion,' troops have...
May 12, 2019, 11:25 AM
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suffered great trauma. They're in a bad place right now. The 'It's my lie and I'm sticking with it,' thing is making them say whatever sounds good to keep from admitting they were duped. It took a week for them to find a conspiracy after Mueller's report was released. It's freaking amazing that they believe Trump colluded with Russia to hack the election but Mueller found that no American participated in Russia's hacking activities.
Now I want to testify. It's humiliating to stick with a theory or believe a lie but the only cure, imo, is confession. It's simple. 'I was mistaken,' or 'I was wrong,' is soul cleansing and brings rest from one's internal turmoil and confusion.
The ability or will to do that must overcome one's pride. Pride is a cruel as the grave, cold and dark.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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What you have is someone looking into an allegation...
May 11, 2019, 11:26 AM
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by officials of the Ukrainian Gov. accusing an Ex VP of using his federal authority for personal gain. Is that not what you guys have accused Trump of doing by allowing foreign dignitaries of renting rooms at his hotels and resorts?
Ukraine officials have appealed to the federal government for months that Biden threatened to rescind a one billion dollar aid package if they didn't fire the guy investigating a money laundering scheme which involved Joe's son, Hunter. That investigator was fired the same day. Biden boasted of this on film. Not FOX so safe to view, right? Goto 1:15 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCF9My1vBP4
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Many have mentioned Hillary Campaign enlisting a foreign
May 11, 2019, 1:33 PM
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Guiliani cancelled his trip last night. See the video of Biden boasting to the press of how he single handedly delayed a $1 Billion loan for Ukraine unless they removed their attorney general. Why would he do that? Because Ukraine’s AG was investigating Biden’s son Hunters’ (discharged from the Navy in 2014 for testing positive for cocaine) business dealings with Burisma. Scum breeds scum.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-scrutiny-demanding-ouster-ukraine-official
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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They won't watch a Fox anything.
May 11, 2019, 2:50 PM
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'Fox is the debil, Bobby!' If Fox says it then it's automatically dismissed as a lie.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: They won't watch a Fox anything.
May 11, 2019, 5:13 PM
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The link I posted in the original post was Fox News.
Now let me address some of our comments.
If the FBI lied to 4 federal judges to get a Fisa warrant on Carter Page then they should go to jail. I don't think any rational person would disagree with that. I didn't address that issue because it's not relevant to the original issuer I raised. I will be happy to discuss it at another time.
Further, as usual, Trump lovers launch the "yeah but" argument pointing out the sins of others, while pointedly not addressing the question of the post. It's a very fair question. Would it be wrong for Guiliana and Trump to enlist the aid of a foreign govt in order to effect the outcome of a Presidential election. Yes or No?
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