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Topic: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue
Replies: 92   Last Post: Jun 28, 2015 9:56 AM by: Tiger Quads®
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FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue

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Posted: Jun 22, 2015 4:34 PM
 

 
Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue

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Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue

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Posted: Jun 22, 2015 4:39 PM
 

Sad it takes black people being murdered in a church for leaders to unify over taking this stupid flag down. Its a flag that represents losers. And if your ancestors were so caught up on it representing the side that fought for state rights....they would have made sure organizations like the KKK didn't use it to represent them. But they didn't. So take the da## thing down!

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All for moving the flag to museum, but it didn't represent

[4]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 4:57 PM
 

losers......KKK may have used it, but it did nor represent them.

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Re: All for moving the flag to museum, but it didn't represent


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:14 PM
 

Sure about that?

https://www.google.com/search?q=kkk+flag&biw=1280&bih=933&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=WHmIVfv3GIe1ggSW7ZR4&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&dpr=1

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If I wasn't sure, I would not have entered it.

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Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:24 PM
 

MY opinion needs no link.

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Re: If I wasn't sure, I would not have entered it.


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:25 PM
 

Your opinion has no evidence.

2020 white level member

The true Confederate Flag of SC--the Stars and Bars--has not

[3]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:32 PM
 

flown over a official government building or site since 1865.

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Re: All for moving the flag to museum, but it didn't represent

[3]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 1:05 AM
 
TOO FUNNY.jpg(11.3 K)

I mean, really? LOL This is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.. Besides the interview with Steve Spurrier after the Tennessee loss.



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Our country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any America because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race.

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Lt.General United States Marine Corps


Re: All for moving the flag to museum, but it didn't represent

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 1:59 PM
 

must have mixed a pair of the wife's red panties in the wash

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It Isn't Even The Confederate Flag


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:49 PM
 

It is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (or perhaps the Army of Tennessee if you prefer the rectangle shaped one). you want to honor the confederacy at least do so with the right darn flag.

(And for those who don't believe me - look for yourself: http://www.moc.org/collections-archives/flags-confederacy)

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Here is my issue.

[4]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 7:35 PM
 

When does it end? There were many that wanted the flag off the statehouse and it was done. It was moved by the legislature to a confederate memorial. So now...the reactionary push of the day is to remove it from where it sits because some nut job who probably had no idea the history of the flag? Whats next.....they going to start taking down confederate memorials because they offend somebody? Change the names of streets because they may have a confederate name? When does it end? To an Atheist, the bible is an offensive symbol...so when do we start eliminating all bibles?


Re: Here is my issue.

[2]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 1:17 AM
 

So we should never make any change and keep this divisive symbol on our statehouse grounds because we fear more change in the future? That's just a normal part of societal evolution and is not new to our time. "Do thr right and honorable thing" should trump fear of change. Kudos to our politicians for finally appearing united and just getting it done.


Re: Here is my issue.

[2]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 3:48 PM
 

They aren't doing the right thing. They are not addressing the issue as it stands. The removal of the flag won't stop anyone. that is an attempt to deflect attention to the actual problem. Taking down the flag is an easy solution that does not accomplish anything. It is a way for a bunch of politicians to prance around and say "see, we did something". It doesn't address the real problem - the individuals or groups that cause these crimes. That flag has been removed from several southern states, yet the problem has not abated.


Re: Here is my issue.


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 11:01 PM
 

What would you have them do instead to address "the real problem?"


Re: Here is my issue.


Posted: Jun 24, 2015 4:26 PM
 

The real issue is the violence. Let the punishment suit the crime. There needs to be a balance between identifying these individuals, through the responsibility of family or those close to the person, and ones' freedom. I am not the smartest person to figure all the details out. The flag is not the issue. Take it down.....but don't think that by simply doing that that the problem won't occur anymore.


Re: Name Changes

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 5:40 AM
 

Georgia changed it's flag from one which included Lee's flag to one which is ugly but can't be related to The Civil War. All the streets in Atlanta with a name which also appeared as a known Confederate name were changed to that of a current or recent African-American politician. The main turn in to Atlanta off I-75 has had three different names since I arrived here to stay in October 1970. So.....count your blessings. So far, all you have to do is move the flag off State grounds. Seems reasonable. It shouldn't have been there. If you want to honor the men of 22nd SC Regiment, another unit, or an ancestor lost in The War, there are other ways. Do the right thing.

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Re: Name Changes


Posted: Jun 24, 2015 4:54 PM
 

"Georgia changed it's flag from one which included Lee's flag to one which is ugly but can't be related to The Civil War."

You see no resemblance between Georgia's current state flag and the first official flag of the Confederacy, The Stars and Bars?

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html


The difference between the flag and CSA memorials

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 11:25 AM
 

The flag represents the philosophies and attitudes espoused by the CSA (not to mention how it has been used in the 20th century). The memorials were placed in remembrance of people who fought and died. Remove the flag. Keep the memorials.


Opinions on flag issue

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Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:06 PM
 

If you were someone who knew his history you would know some 20,000 of the SC ciitzens were killed in the war and most of them did not own any slaves but were fighting a Union governemnt that had intalled a blockade along our coast. they definitely were not losers! Our school's president and AD are both new to our state and really should not issue any comment at all as state employees.They are of course entitled to their opinion just as the rest of us.


Why did we choose to fly the Battle Flag instead of Stars

[1]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:11 PM
 

and Bars? serious question. I always thought the Stars and Bars was the flag of the confederacy.


Re: Why did we choose to fly the Battle Flag instead of Stars


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 8:11 AM
 

It was the first of several flags of the Confederacy. The problem was that the South had many pieces (states), but were so enamored with being Individuals, that they couldn't agree and come together as a whole. They, also, were not well funded. So many states, and their armies, had the wives of their generals, or rankers, actually make their flags. Hence, there were many, many flags used for the Confederacy. It is history that has brought that flag to the forefront. It was also the flag used by General Robert E Lee on his historic march on Gettysburg.


Re: Opinions on flag issue

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:13 PM
 

The Union Blockade started when President Abraham Lincoln ordered this measure against the Confederate seaports on April 19, 1861, just six days after the fall of Fort Sumter.

The blockade wasn't the cause it was the effect.

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Re: Opinions on flag issue

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 8:19 AM
 

Once again - wrong. South Carolina seceded from the Union. Abraham Lincoln demanded their allegiance. He knew that if South Carolina seceded, other would follow, which did happen. This caused Lincoln to attack Sumter and to form the blockade. The war of Northern Aggression was about pulling the Southern states back into the Union, not about slavery.


Re: Opinions on flag issue

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:29 AM
 

Alright Mr. "History" buff, if the Civil War was not about slavery, let's hear you explain away the words of the Vice President of the Confederacy, referring to the confederate constitution:

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. THIS WAS THE IMMEDIATE CAUSE OF THE LATE RUPTURE AND PRESENT REVOLUTION. (Emphasis added). Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

> ................................. The war of
> Northern Aggression was about pulling the Southern
> states back into the Union, not about slavery.


Re: Opinions on flag issue

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 2:28 PM
 

The Northern states, under the actions of Lincoln, declared war on the Southern states for Seceding. Lincoln was afraid others would follow, which they did. The Southern states seceded, they didn't start the war, nor did they take any belligerent actions until attacked. Slavery was an underlying issue, but not the actual cause for the proclamation of war. All you have stated is the break of the Southern states.

This issue was one that almost did not cause the Union of the original thirteen colonies. The original Articles of Confederation for those colonies had explicit writing against slavery. The writers of the Articles knew, and were affirmed in their beliefs, that formation of the Union would not come about with those laws, at present. Slavery was a fairly widespread and tolerated practice in that day, North and South. You can always claim that there would have, and were laws passed that would have, and did, outlaw the practice. But that is not history; the war was brought about, specifically, because of the secession of the South, and to keep the Union whole.

Not a proud time in our history.


Can we agree that the "war" was to keep the Union


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:46 AM
 

together and that "secession" was to preserve slavery? Seems that we are getting caught in a semantics argument here.


Re: Can we agree that the "war" was to keep the Union


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 3:37 PM
 

No. The Northern states had slaves. It had been an issue throughout the history of our country, up through the end of the "Civil War". The original Articles of Confederation wanted to outlaw slavery(keep your sarcasm, no one believes it is an acceptable practice - slavery is abhorrent and malicious), but it could not be ratified. Slavery was a prevalent, tolerated and widespread practice. It was a lynchpin to the early economy of this country. At the time of the "Civil War", it was an issue that was under debate and there was a movement for it's abolition, but there is no indication that any law was, or would be, ratified. It is because of the "war", the gruesome and destructive nature of the events that unfolded, that it became a rallying point, and eventually a law. The Emancipation Proclamation did not even outlaw slavery - it only outlawed it for states that seceded - thus giving the Union a reason for attacking Southern states.



President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863, as the nation approached its third year of bloody civil war. The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the nation, it captured the hearts and imagination of millions of Americans and fundamentally transformed the character of the war.


Re: Opinions on flag issue


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:16 PM
 

What does that have to do with whether the flag should be taken down or not?

> If you were someone who knew his history you would
> know some 20,000 of the SC ciitzens were killed in
> the war and most of them did not own any slaves but
> were fighting a Union governemnt that had intalled a
> blockade along our coast. they definitely were not
> losers!


I agree that most of those in SC who fought for the South

[3]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:29 PM
 

were simply fighting for SC and didn't own slaves. There were many Nazi's that were simply fighting for their country too.

They may have been ignorant of why SC seceded in the first place, but I doubt it. The state leaders made it perfectly clear, for around 30 years prior, why they wanted to secede. The blockade came after secession.

I've found that most people don't even know the truth about why SC seceded. All I've ever heard is State's rights and tariffs. That's not what the leaders at the time said...it was all about slavery. You can read their reasons, in their own words, here: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

I believe people call them "losers" because they lost. HTH


Re: I agree that most of those in SC who fought for the South

[1]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:46 PM
 

Yes I am sure Yale would be on top of all the details...geezz


it's a text directly from SC leaders at the time.

[1]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 6:29 PM
 

Yale has nothing to do with it. You can find lots of links with the same text. You can also look up the recruitment statement from SC to all other slave states which says much of the same. HTH


Re: I agree that most of those in SC who fought for the South


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 10:45 AM
 

Yea, who wants to believe what one of the top universities on the planet has to say.


I'm sorry the democrats started the KKK.

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Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:54 PM
 

I wish they had have just stayed up north.

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYKKKKTerroristArmoftheDemocratParty

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Re: I'm sorry the democrats started the KKK.


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 9:49 PM
 

> I wish they had have just stayed up north.
>
> http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuse
> action=pages.DYKKKKTerroristArmoftheDemocratParty

Those guys are idiots: "Georgia-born Democrat Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan wrote on page 21 of the September 1928 edition of the Klan’s “The Kourier Magazine”: “

Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest died in 1877.

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Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 9:40 PM
 

I had ancestors who fought in the Revolution and Civil War (Both sides). What is missing from this is that the Sons of Confederate Veterans 30,000 members fund a Heratige defense legal team that does sue the KKK, Southern Poverty Law Center and other hate groups for misuse of the Southern Cross. No one can make you feel offended without your permission. I'd like to see more history (see CSPAN & HC ) and less exploitation on all sides. Good work can be done. The Hunley project was a good example.

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Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue

[2]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 8:03 AM
 

Fool. You, and all the others screaming to remove that flag, are the problem. You believe that the removal of that flag will solve all the issues. Once it is down, not one more hate crime will be committed. Fool. You are as much the problem as those individuals who commit them. Deal with those who commit the crimes, serve justice to those who enact and enable others to hate, and you will solve more of the problem than removing that flag. Deal with the actual problem. You, and all the other sheep who scream for it's removal, are AIDING the murders and hate mongers by not dealing with the actual problems. As a reference, magicians call it sleight-of-hand. Get people to focus on something other than what they are doing and YOU FOOL THE AUDIENCE. What you, and the other sheep, suggest, is a way of distracting from the issue. Don't solve the problem, take the easy way out through mob mentality.

By your standards, though, we should remove the American flag. It has just as much hate and destruction behind it. Ever heard of Native Americans(Indians for those who are not politically correct)? Ever heard of Mexicans, those that inhabited Texas to California? By your standards, why does anyone allow any middle eastern countries flags to be flown in this country? Ever heard of Isis, jihadists and 9/11 ?!?!?!

If taking down that flag would solve the problem, take it down. If taking it down meant that not one more soul would be hurt, in any way, do it. Do you honestly believe, though, that by taking it down, this would actually stop anyone? If you do, you are a bigger fool than I imagined to start with.

Fool. Go back to grazing with the other sheep. Learn to understand that the threat, and it's potential, comes from the individuals that cause them, not the inanimate objects they mistakenly, and inaccurately, portray as THEIR symbols. That flag portrays more history and culture than just the hate espoused by a few diseased and cancerous souls. Get off the bandwagon, use the brain that God gave you, and understand that the flag isn't the issue. It is the individuals, groups, that need to be removed.


speaking of fools. This is probably the worst


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 8:24 AM
 

post in this topic that I have seen. Nobody thinks taking the flag down will fix everything. It could be a step in the right direction though. You have to start somewhere.

You're still free to fly whatever flag you want, just not officially sanctioned on the state house grounds. Tattoo it in your forehead for all I care.


Re: speaking of fools. This is probably the worst


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 3:05 PM
 

Once again, start with fixing the problem - violence by an individual or group. Mete justice out to those who have caused the problem. I really wouldn't care much about taking down the flag at the state building, except that it wouldn't stop there. And please explain how taking down the flag stops anyone from doing anything? How does taking down a flag remove the situation from happening? If we take down the flag, have we addressed any issue? Have we caused anyone who might remotely be thinking of committing one of these heinous crimes from having second thoughts? This is like putting a Band-Aid on a cancerous skin growth. Unfortunately, certain pathetic individuals have adopted this symbol and are using it for perpetrating their maliciousness. Fight the crime, solve the problem. Once the flag comes down, has anything really been accomplished - absolutely not.

P.S. I do fly the flag and there is a Tiger Paw on my forehead


I have a better question: what will it hurt to take the


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 3:51 PM
 

flag down? Why does it really matter that that particular flag, one that never flew over SC during the Confederacy, one that was put up solely because of resistance to the Civil Rights movement, flies over this memorial?


Take It Down.


Posted: Jun 24, 2015 4:14 PM
 

Take it down. Move it to an historical area. It is kind of ironic that it has already been moved once. It is on a memorial now, albeit still on state grounds. I just wonder when it will become a "firable" offense at my workplace to openly acknowledge my background.

My point is, and has been, taking down the flag solves nothing. It is a diversionary tactic so that a politician(s) can claim they did something and move on, leaving the real issue still open - this kind of violence is not acceptable.


Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 1:44 PM
 

I agree with everything you said!!!! They should also be able to fly the Nazi flag in Germany because it's not the flag's fault that all of those people were sent to die in those ovens. I will continue to ride around town flying the confederate flag from my pickup truck with all of the black friends that I have. I'm sure they will all agree with me.


Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 2:53 PM
 

Wow. Never been associated with nazis and hitler before. This is the unfortunate side effect of symbols. Anyone can pick one up and stamp their beliefs onto it. You are probably right. I am, always have been a heartless ba$tard. I shouldn't try to defend anything that has been misconstrued. Shouldn't try to reconfigure something that was once maligned into something that has some good to it. I guess we shouldn't have an Eagle as our American symbol, either - the nazis used that one, too.


well so much for love and compassion, it seems to have left


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:17 AM
 

the building. I try to state my opinion without hurling insults at those I disagree with.


Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue


Posted: Jun 27, 2015 11:57 AM
 

The slippery slope of political correctness continues. Clemson gives up the confederate flag for the Tiger Paw. The Clemson Gentleman disappears from our sidelines. The Confederate Flag is removed from the dome of the state capital. You can not even find a photo of the confederate flag and few of the Clemson gentleman in Clemson History any longer. You can not rewrite history by removing a flag. You only bury the real issue. It is not the confederate flag that lead to the murder in Charleston however the demand the Flag be taken down may have well driven this individual to extreme unacceptable actions.


  Will remong the Confesate flag chang the issue    [Results]
 
Yes
No
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CUTIGERTIM
Clemson Rat 1968
Clemson fan forever


Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 4:49 PM
 

DRad showing his leadership by tweeting 2 minutes after Pres. Clements.


You know it was coordinated, right?

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 4:51 PM
 

It didn't happen by accident.


Re: You know it was coordinated, right?


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:17 PM
 

I know it was coordinated. It would have seemed a lot more sincere if it wasn't.


Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:11 PM
 

Yeah, couldn't help but laugh about that myself. But he's right.

> DRad showing his leadership by tweeting 2 minutes
> after Pres. Clements.


Why is Athletic Director commenting on it? Seems


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:11 PM
 

like it should be just the President if anyone.

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Re: Why is Athletic Director commenting on it? Seems

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:14 PM
 

Why are you or any of us commenting on it? Because we have a right to.


o.k. o.k***


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:17 PM
 



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Tanner spoke out, so pretty sure we had no choice.


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:15 PM
 

Don't wanna get labeled as racist on the recruiting trail when your rivals speak out.


Re: Tanner spoke out, so pretty sure we had no choice.


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:23 PM
 

Maybe if the Virgina battle flag was removed for the first Confederate flag or the SC battle flag it would be palatable....I am South Carolinian and had ancestors in the war too, but have a hard time with the argument to keep it up when it was put on the state house in 1962....time to move on to something else...let the Daughters of the Confederacy and the Sons of the confederacy remove it with dignity and retire it...


don't care what opinion is but a bit

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:23 PM
 

Disgusted the tragedy is what's being used as the fuel for removal. The two issues are seperate.


Re: don't care what opinion is but a bit


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:26 PM
 

Agreed, its sad that this is what makes us take it down. Should have been done years ago with out the need of a murder. Sadly, if not for this, it probably would have been flown another 25 years.

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Re: don't care what opinion is but a bit


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:37 PM
 

think you missed the entire point


Re: don't care what opinion is but a bit


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:45 PM
 

It's incredible to me that so many of you just don't get it. Your stubbornness to is your true heritage.

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Re: don't care what opinion is but a bit

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 7:28 PM
 

So if a racist a$$hole murdering people isn't enough of a reason to take it down by your sentiments nothing would have probably had a big enough impact to start a dialogue to have it taken down.

It doesn't matter if you think it has nothing to do with racism or whatever. It's about perceptions. And if you know that an entire group of people is offended because how they view it, if you choose to keep it flying then you choose to completely disregard an entire group of society and their feelings.

The question is why would you sh1t on all these people and their feelings, why is flying that flag and some stupid rebellious element of history to you is apparently more important than the fact you are seriously offending people.

Let's look at the two sides. One one hand, you simply want it to be there because you like it and the "history" is represents. On the other hand, millions of people think it's completely sick and archaic and belongs in a museum. So, which is more important. The fact you just want it to be there, or the fact tons of people are sickened by it?

I think the latter.

I support the president and the AD. Even if, in my younger years, I was less thoughtful and wanted to keep it there myself.


Re: don't care what opinion is but a bit


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 1:24 AM
 

It is something positive which can come from such a horrible tradegy. I too wish our leaders could have done it properly in 2000 so we wouldn't have had that symbol offending so many for the last 15 years. We know what it represents to most people. It is not good. Better yet, I wish the blatantly racist politicians in the 60s had not put it on top of the statehouse in the first place as a symbol of our defiance. There is no defense for it.


This is sure to end all racism.***

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:51 PM
 



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PFFT HA NOT


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 7:37 PM
 

The only thing that will satisfy racist blacks is every cracker getting on a boat back to Europe. No wait I'm sure our daughters will be welcome to stay but the rest of us , no. Racism is a cancer of ALL RACES but the racebaiting media turns a blind eye unless it's white racism. To many that fly it the confederate battle flag does represent racism and others it's heritage but to those opposed it's purely racism. Well I can see that and moving it to a museum is fine BUT there need to be concessions in the spirit of fairness. BETs bigotry should be banned in SC, the united negro college fund should be opened to all SC students regardless of race (otherwise it's RACISM). Lastly AME churches should voluntarily drop the A in their name for two reasons one I don't recall where God says to segregate your church and 2 any attempt to do so is racist and that'd be hypocritical. I'm sure there are more things that both sides can think of but this would be a good start. Heck it's only a piece of fabric, brain rotting tv, fairness in education, and the letter A what's the big deal?

Am I going to get blasted for what I've said yes probably but it's all true wether you want to accept it or not.

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Re: PFFT HA NOT

[2]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 10:49 AM
 

When you are the minority in a society (minority either by numbers, wealth, or perceived power), organizations, entertainment, etc. are often set up for the "minor" cultures. It is only racist if those subsequent cultures ban the involvement of other races.

Have you seen a program on BET? Do you know that all races are featured in its videos, programs, directing, etc.

Do you know why the A.M.E. church was formed?? Have you attended a service? If you have, you do realize that there are members of every race and even white preachers in the church.

You sound pretty bitter, but your argument lacks logic and evidence. Get your facts straight. I honor you for your service to the Marines, but as a person you need seek to understand before trying to be understood.


Re: PFFT HA NOT


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 12:08 PM
 

I have watched BET and the times I flip by it I haven't seen anything but racial divide. Honestly no I haven't been to an AME church service but I have done work at the one by Flour Field and there wasn't any other ethnicity in person or in pictures anywhere. Are nonblacks not banned from the college fund ? I didn't try I used my GI bill ?!? Earned it in other words but yes I am bitter and sick of American society only acknowledging white racism. Like I said it's not just a white problem.

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We are in the Bible belt.....

[1]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 5:53 PM
 

There is no question that the kkk used this flag. No matter what else the flag stood for the kkk using it caused hurt among many in our state . As a Christian I have to ask myself what's more important. Is it the flag or my fellow mankind that is hurt every time they see it. Take it down. Gods children are more important than any earthly object.

2020 white level member

Good point... The KKK also "used" the Bible...... "Used".***


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 11:14 AM
 



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The flag isn't on top of the house! It's flying over ...

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 6:43 PM
 

A memorial on the lawn of the state house! The flag is part of a memorial and they want to take it down just because one crazy guy did something and believed in something! Remove it for all I care, but mark my words nothing will change people's inner hatred and own opinions! People just need to do a better job of teaching their children God's word and helping them see what is right and wrong in our society!


anybody heard from the President

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 6:48 PM
 

of the College of Charleston yet?



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What will we take down the next time some insane idiot

[1]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 7:08 PM
 

decides to kill innocent people ?

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Re: What will we take down the next time some insane idiot


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 7:19 PM
 

the NAACP will tell us what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: What will we take down the next time some insane idiot


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 7:23 PM
 

The next time a zwhite supremacist decides to kill innocent people?***


Re: What will we take down the next time some insane idiot


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:01 AM
 

I give up, what will we take down?

Summa cum laude. Magna cum laude. The radio’s too loudy.


I could not care less if the flag comes down because it will


Posted: Jun 22, 2015 8:21 PM
 

not change my life in any way, nor the lives of those wanting it down! My only question, after 50 years of concessions, is . . . what next?!!!!

Now . . . how 'bout let's talk about some Tiger football just around the corner!!

Go Tigers!!!!


Re: I could not care less if the flag comes down because it will

[2]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 9:48 PM
 

Dude the flag has only been there for 50 years. It was only put there as an F-you to the idea of social desegregation...so what "concessions" are you referring to? Drinking out of the same water fountain and going to the same school as black people?


Clements and D. Rad. Are a couple of politically correct carpet baggers.***

[1]
Posted: Jun 22, 2015 9:53 PM
 




Re: Clements and D. Rad. Are a couple of politically correct carpet baggers.***


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 10:56 AM
 

When did that term "carpet baggers" originate? Case in point.


Time to rename Tillman Hall yet?***


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:06 AM
 




Seems like the same issue to me


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:54 AM
 

This is what I thought of when I heard the call to remove the Confed Flag. What about renaming Tillman? They both represent a past we don't necessarily want to be reminded of. I had a great great grandfather that owned slaves and was supposedly not a very nice man. I don't condone that but that is the time they lived in and the values he was brought up with. I don't celebrate it though. If I was born then I probably would have thoughts just like he did. He was a LT in the Confed Army and had to be pardoned after the war by President Grant (after he released his 56 slaves). The civil war wasn't just about slavery. That was the bell cow issue but it was more in the south about State rights and representation. States were much more autonomous then. It was "I am a South Carolinian that lives in the United States". I respect the history but for many South Carolinians the flag (and Tillman) represent oppression and racism and bigotry and hatred. For that reason Tillman should be renamed and the flag shouldn't be flown at the capital. JMO!

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Re: Time to rename Tillman Hall yet?***


Posted: Jun 24, 2015 4:58 PM
 

The answer is yes, it is time to remove Ben's statues from around the state and to take his name off of streets and buildings.


Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:09 AM
 

Good. It should have come down right after it was revealed that flying it wouldn't keep the Civil Rights Movement from happening.

Seriously though, it seems some folks argue as if the flag wasn't put up as a symbol to directly defy the Fed's focus on integration and equal rights.

Which doesn't make much sense. Because that's what happened. And now 50 years later I have to hear about how it's my heritage? Why does/should this political symbol used solely for the purposes of thumbing our nose at the Equal Rights movement be such an integral part of our culture?

It doesn't. I imagine most people who are acting outraged don't fly the flag themselves, but are defending the perceived "rights" of some distant relative who unabashedly flies the flag while saying things like "The South Will Rise Again" (waiting).

It's only an issue due to how much of a non-issue it is.

Summa cum laude. Magna cum laude. The radio’s too loudy.


Prez's words will come back when they come for Tillman Hall.

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:19 AM
 

Because it's coming. Now that the flag is coming down, there will be new "symbols of hate" attacked.


Using a horrific tragedy to show political correctness.

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:22 AM
 

I'm not a big fan of the flag, but I think these guys should worry about their responsibilities.
First, our university president has had a student die during rush. The lawns of these
frat houses continue to be covered in beer cans by under age drinkers during football weekends ( I find that offensive). Maybe he should concentrate more on CU and stop using a horrific tragedy to
"showboat" his political correctness. Secondly, our AD needs to correct two of our three major
sports programs that are at the very least "floundering". Maybe he should not use this tragic time in
our state to prove that he is also politically correct! Furthermore, neither of these two were born in this state and know the history behind this flag. Most likely both of these just became legal
residence of this state within the last two years. Let South Carolinians address this problem when the
terrible haze of this tragedy subsides.

It disgust me to see horrific moments like this manipulated by people to draw attention to
themselves, and their political correctness.


Re: Using a horrific tragedy to show political correctness.


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 9:25 AM
 

It disgusts me that some people imply that the only reason we're removing the flag is because people died and not because it's a pointless symbol that remains from a Civil Rights protest.

Summa cum laude. Magna cum laude. The radio’s too loudy.


Doesn't the timing of this fly in the face of your point?


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 10:48 AM
 

People obviously believe in some connection, otherwise you wouldn't have a million % uptick in emotion over the confederate battle flag being located in a certain place.

And just because something it pointless to you, doesn't make it pointless to everyone. You are trying to get what you want by delegitimizing those who disagree with you, and using the fact your view is popular as leverage. Since the timing of the flag removal push in connection with the murdered in Charleston cannot logically be justified, political correctness will fill the vacuum.

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Re: Doesn't the timing of this fly in the face of your point?

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 11:33 AM
 

I'll bite.

No, the outcries of people who are convinced that the flag is part of a longstanding "heritage" are falling on my deaf ears. Specifically in light of the historical context in which it was raised.

It was raised on the statehouse grounds so that the state could thumb its nose at the government's pursuance of Civil Rights legislation.

That makes any perception about "heritage" moot at best. And since Civil Rights kind of involved the whole making black people equal thing, you can see where it could be interpreted as disingenuous to hear "it's not about race" (specifically when you know those people personally and can confirm that they are racist).

Of course, most of the people (maybe not on Tnet specifically...check Facebook) protesting this change aren't familiar with that history. I don't know if that makes it better or worst.

Forgive me if I don't support a flawed justification for keeping something up that never should have been there in the first place. It's not about what I think or whose side I'm on or what's popular. It's about seeing the cost/benefit ratio and doing what makes sense and realizing that kicking and screaming about some incorrect interpretation of Southern politics just isn't worth the energy.

What it boils down to is that people just can't admit they're wrong. And as an admitted contrarian, I know one when I see it...and there's enough "other people don't like it, so I do" folks waving the battle flag around that it's honestly hard to tell who actually cares and who is just ranting.

Summa cum laude. Magna cum laude. The radio’s too loudy.


There is no morality regarding flags. It's simply who wins.


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 5:40 PM
 

My point is that those claiming the flag should be removed have no more actual justification for their opinion as those who want it up. It's people searching for things to complain about. Or people searching for easy ways to feel better about themselves. With all the things that contribute to hate and ignorance, this push for removing a flag is entirely worthless. It's simply the next stop on the unending march of PC conformity.

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What a world we live in. The fact that most people can't

[2]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 10:42 AM
 

readily detect the ridiculousness of this situation says alot about where we are as a society.

A 21 year old (full of hateful, ignorance and personality flaws) murders nine people in a church. He targets these people because of the color of their skin. We are talking about one 21 year old. It's the only time anything like this has happened in a quarter century. In a country with 300 million people... this particular type of hate crime happens once, in over two decades... and look how the media and people of the internet are reacting.

The country itself (more specifically white America) is being blamed for the actions of a single person that next to no one sympathizes with. Forget statistics, forget logic, forget honest observation, forget everything except the mental illness of political correctness and the desperate attempt for some people to portray themselves as victims and others as morally inferior. Nobody except the victims and the ones who knew the victims are truly effected. Yet everyone wants a piece of the victim-hood or the judgement.

It is being implied that a flag has something to do with this lone murderers motivation. No matter that a virtual consensus of flag supporters condemn slavery as an institution, condemn segregation and white supremacy as immoral, and certainly condemn hate crimes and murder. They only wish to sustain a tribute to those who believed they were fighting for their country during a time of national extreme political upheaval. They only wish to have some concrete representation of a geographic region that they are proud of. Yet fools would rather engage the straw man, now that a lone 21 year old has embodied it.

The media is using this extremely anomalous tragedy as an opportunity to tie it in with the popular news narrative of race relations. And people are so stupid, they are buying into it. This is how you get comments like what Byron Maxwell said. This is why we have protesters in the streets whose entire argument is built on a fantasy (Michael Brown hands up) This is how you have Twitter lighting up about a flag...as if that is a meaningful response to a mass murder. And most people who agree with removing the flag realize there is no connection. They just want to remove it to shut the people up who do believe that. And because of political correctness, the loudest idiots get to dictate what is right and wrong.

We can't complain about politicians treating the American people like idiots if we actually are those idiots. We can't complain if we let idiots pressure us into agreeing with irrational policies because it's too much of a hassle to fight them.

What happened in Charleston was an aberration, not part of our system. What happened went violently against Americans' values... it was not a symptom of a racist white culture. And most obviously of all, what happened has NOTHING to do with a flag. And it has nothing to do with a flag being located on state house grounds versus being in a museum. Anyone who actually thinks the two are related is a blind sheep, incapable of independent, rational thought. Anyone who believes in a connection is so easily manipulable that they barely count as an individual. And too many thoughtless sheep lead the flock towards disaster.

Political correctness isn't harmless. It has murdered honest intellectual discourse. And if you think that isn't a big deal, just give it enough time. Soon enough you will be breaking the law for speaking your mind. Free speech has been redefined before in history, dozens of times. It's obviously happening again. We are in the middle of a thought-control movement, though instead of fascism or totalitarian communism... this one is happening in a democratic republic. Government, of any type, will never stop people from finding a way to screw themselves over.



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Some issues I have seen raised here....

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 10:59 AM
 

First off that the Prez and Drad shouldn't be remarking on this. Really? It was a tweet not a manifesto. They didn't write dissertations. I respect the rights of all Americans to say what they want...it is freedom of speech. I also respect their opinions.

Second the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia doesn't represent ANY of my heritage or history. I have relatives who owned slaves and who fought in the Civil War. They never fought under this flag.

Third the only reason we are doing this now is because it is now PC to do so. WHO CARES???? Something is always a catalyst for change. Something always comes up that causes change. Do you think the civil rights movement would have been as powerful if MLK hadn't been assassinated? The Northern Virginia battle flag coming down is the right thing to do.

Fourth if we start here we are on a slippery slope to changing EVERYTHING. Again change is a natural progression. Nothing stays the same. The issues important to us today are not the same as the issues that were important when these decisions were being made. I guarantee there is a MLK parkway in just about every city I have been to. Not many Patton Parkways though.

Fifth that making these changes somehow diminishes our heritage and forgets history. History is the past. It will be forgotten. The history books aren't necessarily correct anyway. They are written by the victors. I was in Germany recently and got in a discussion about the war with a couple and of course Nazis were brought up and how terrible they were. They brought up that our side wasn't that much nicer. We fire bombed Dresden to the ground. Men, women, children, hospitals, schools, etc were razed. 25,000 people killed in 4 days. We don't talk about that history much because they "deserved it".

Sixth is that the Civil War was all about slavery. Not true it was about states being able to determine their futures and the Constitution being upheld for everyone. Read the SC Secession declaration. They Seceded because the states rights were not being upheld. One issue they had was that slaves (felons when they ran away) were not being returned to them by the other states as the Constitution promises and makes law. For that reason the Constitution was deemed no longer binding. The issue was states rights...they just used slavery as the example to point out the discrepancies.

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Re: Some issues I have seen raised here....


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 11:21 AM
 

Well, according to the Vice President of the Confederacy, that's not EXACTLY true. He is pretty clear that slavery was the immediate cause AND that maintaining slavery was the CORNERSTONE of the confederate constitution:

"The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. THIS WAS THE IMMEDIATE CAUSE OF THE LATE RUPTURE AND THE PRESENT REVOLUTION. (Emphasis added). Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its CORNERSTONE rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."


> Sixth is that the Civil War was all about slavery.
> Not true it was about states being able to determine
> e their futures and the Constitution being upheld for
> everyone. Read the SC Secession declaration. They
> Seceded because the states rights were not being
> upheld. One issue they had was that slaves (felons
> when they ran away) were not being returned to them
> by the other states as the Constitution promises and
> makes law. For that reason the Constitution was
> deemed no longer binding. The issue was states
> rights...they just used slavery as the example to
> point out the discrepancies.


On your last point, I'll fix it for you...


Posted: Jun 23, 2015 12:04 PM
 

"Sixth is that the Civil War was all about slavery. Not true it was about states being able to determine their futures as slave-holding and the Constitution (the part about returning escaped slaves to their owners) being upheld for everyone. Read the SC Secession declaration. They Seceded because the states rights (about returning escaped slaves to their owners)were not being upheld. One The main issue they had was that slaves (felons (how dare they run away from their masters )when they ran away) were not being returned to them by the other states as the Constitution promises because of the appeasement of the non-slaveholding states trying to keep the union together and makes law. For that reason the Constitution was deemed no longer binding. The issue was states rights...they just used slavery as the example to point out the discrepancies because that's all they had."

You're welcome.


Re: On your last point, I'll fix it for you...

[1]
Posted: Jun 23, 2015 1:25 PM
 

I don't disagree that slavery was the defining issue, but as many have stated here and has been proven true by the census only 4.8 percent of the people in slaveholding states had slaves. Let me do the math for you...that means that 95.2% of the free whites didn't own slaves. So if you don't own slaves what do you care if the slaves are freed? You don't EXCEPT that you don't want someone else telling you (because you are a free state that determines its own laws) that you CAN't own them. An interesting side note to this is that free black people owned a much higher percentage. From here: http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm

"According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

To return to the census figures quoted above, this 28 percent is certainly impressive when compared to less than 1.4 percent of all American whites and less than 4.8 percent of southern whites. The statistics show that, when free, blacks disproportionately became slave masters."


Anyway I am sure that for a lot of people in the south the key issue was slavery but many of the books written on the subject say that the bedrock issue was the states ability to govern themselves of which slavery was a bell cow issue.

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Big Red is the flag of SC vets not Stars & Bars


Posted: Jun 24, 2015 10:03 AM
 

That flag honors the vets of northern Va. Our for-fathers fought under Big Red. Big Red should fly over a monument that honors SC vets not the Stars and Bars. Besides, that flag has been been hi-jacked by hate groups weather we like it or not. Just as the word gay once meant happy and care free, it now means something totally different.


FYI- The flag that's flying now is not the "stars and bars".***


Posted: Jun 24, 2015 10:44 AM
 




Re: FB Update: Clemson President and AD tweet about the confederate flag issue

[1]
Posted: Jun 28, 2015 9:56 AM
 

• When is the last time you actually saw the Confederate flag flying at our state capital? I feel certain that most people in South Carolina have simply never even seen the flag (and most of the people in South Carolina - including our Clemson president and AD - think that our state flag is adorned with a Palmetto tree and a crescent moon).

• Our state flag consists of a Palmetto tree and an upward facing gorget, not a crescent moon.

• It is so easy to get on the bandwagon and join the masses; taking down the Confederate flag is simply not going to solve any problems. All it will do is cause all of the ignorant racists to start flying the flag in their yards and on their cars; wearing hats and t-shirts.

• Now, you will really see the Confederate flag... what a waste of time and energy.

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~• Other than THAT Jackie, how was the parade? •~


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