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OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
storage
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Replies: 111
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Legend [18133]
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OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 8:40 AM
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the only judgment you can make is the quality of the video production. Maybe we need a new videographer, not a new S&C coach.
Let's talk apples when we're looking at apples. If you were allowed to watch several teams lift in person, you might have a legitimate opinion on the state of our S&C program compared to others. To form such an opinion from watching 5-minute videos is about like comparing novels based on the artwork on the jacket.
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Heisman Winner [111421]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 8:56 AM
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It is Odd, we have this Terrible S&C program, yet we keep putting beasts at Dline into the NFL.
Nuk Hopkins and Mike Bellamy made significant gains over the winter.
Martavis Bryant is filling out nicely, Brandon ford has put on tremendous muscle mass,came in at 205, and is still very athletic and a legit TE.
Gifford Timothy came in a wad of cookie dough, and is now being commended by the coaches for his toughness and looks to be our starting RT in the fall.
Grady Jarret was virtually un recruited at 260 lbs coming in, pushing 300 now was almost unblock-able in the spring game.
Stanton Seckenger came in at 195, is now being looked at as a tight end.
the list goes on.
I know very little about S&C, but I do know we are putting more big bodies into the NFL than we have in a long time, again Dwayne Allen came in at 220, is a buff 250 and looking to be the 2nd or 3rd tight end in the dract.
etc. etc..
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Legend [18133]
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I would add Andre Ellington as an example. He's
Apr 22, 2012, 9:01 AM
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impressive. One could argue his durability, I guess, but you can't deny how much his body has developed.
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Savant [470]
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Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL
Apr 22, 2012, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos ] |
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Sorry, I couldn't get past the first sentence. Call me a downer or a c00t, but I'm sick of hearing that we're some kind of DL beast factory. What DLine beasts have we put into the NFL?
Gaines Adams (God rest his soul) had a serviceable first two years, but he never got more than 6.5 sacks and petered out in Tampa before going to Chicago.
Philip Merling has been a total bust.
Bowers only had, what, a couple of sacks last year? Plenty of time left to grow into a stud, I'll admit.
Ricky Sapp? Jarvis Jenkins?
You could make the argument that the last real stud DL that we put into the League was Trevor Pryce, and he was a transfer from Michigan SIXTEEN YEARS AGO.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL
Apr 22, 2012, 12:04 PM
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Gaines had 6 and 6.5 sacks his first two years which is good. He was turned into a scapegoat by Raheem Morris who is no longer a coach. When he passed away, he had more sacks than any first rounder in that draft. He wasn't given the time to develop fully before being dealt.
Merling is a DE in a 3-4 scheme. No one has good stats there. Their job is to eat space and allow the outside linebackers to do the rushing. For comparison, Nick Eason's best season as one is 17 tackles and 1.5 sacks, Injuries have also plagued him the last two years.
Bowers - rookie
Jarvis Jenkins was a rookie and tore his ACL in the preseason
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Savant [470]
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Are we a beast factory?***
Apr 22, 2012, 12:06 PM
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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must be, because the NFL keeps on drafting our Dlinemen***
Apr 22, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Savant [470]
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I never said that we don't put linemen in the NFL.
Apr 22, 2012, 2:09 PM
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It's great that we do - that's a kind of exposure that money cannot buy, and I would hope that it would pay off more than it currently does on the recruiting trail. What I objected to was characterizing them as beasts over and over and over again. Beasts don't go to the league and just get by. If you want to characterize our output as "serviceable," "dependable," or simply "good," that's fine. But broadly painting all of our linemen as "beasts" is just a way of saying that we don't have core problems in player development and, yes, recruiting an ideal type of player, when we obviously do.
BTW, many thanks for insulting both me and my mother in another thread in this discussion. You are one classy guy.
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CU Guru [1928]
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Re: Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL
Apr 22, 2012, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL ] |
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guess folks didnt never watch the game to see the double teams or chip blocks that those players got every game, and in todays game you need to really good players on both sides to keep teams from doing that against you..and another thing making and NFL roster is #### near impossible and being a NFL Sack leader is even harder yet..#### folks give credit where credit is due they are in the BIG LEAGUES and not some keyboard warrior
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CU Guru [1363]
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110%er [6692]
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Why couldn't you get past the first sentence?
Apr 22, 2012, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL ] |
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The key point is we put d-linemen in the NFL, that is a complete truth.
They were beasts while they were here at Clemson, and we got them to the NFL. After that it's up to them.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It's not that simple. Creating a successful NFL player is
Apr 22, 2012, 12:35 PM
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something recruits care about. And while I don't claim to know anything about our S&C program, I do think, based on other circumstantial factors, that questions should be at least raised.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Jarvis Jenkins was starting right out of the gate until he..
Apr 22, 2012, 12:45 PM
[ in reply to Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL ] |
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got injured last season. By the way, Gaines Adams didn't have the opportunity to blossom, you insensitive sob.
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Savant [470]
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Jenkins has never started a game in the NFL.
Apr 22, 2012, 2:20 PM
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ACL injury in preseason 2011. Maybe he'll develop into a beast - I'm rooting for him.
As for Gaines, he may have turned out to be great (i.e., a beast) in the NFL. That would've been super. He was taken from this world way too soon.
Objectively, though, no open-minded person can take a gestalt view of his output and labeled him a world-beater at the pro level. If my saying that bothers you so much that it causes you to curse my mother, then that only proves that you are a small, small (here, I place my thumb and index finger one inch apart), small man.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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He was named the starter in the preseason, they drafted...
Apr 23, 2012, 12:59 AM
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him to replace Albert Haynesworth. Keep up with the facts.
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Rooter [229]
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Re: Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL
Apr 23, 2012, 10:19 AM
[ in reply to Orange-tinted misconceptions re: DL ] |
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6 DL on NFL rosters as of Sept 2011
Bowers
Jenkins
Merling
Scott
Eason
Cumbie
3 OL on NFL rosters as of Sept 2011
Richardson
Hairston
Austin
Clemson has 24 players on NFL rosters, 9 Linemen.
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Rock Defender [53]
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LOL. "The list goes on"...
Apr 22, 2012, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos ] |
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Would you really like me to list the games where we got physically dominated? Punched in the face with no response? Games where the other team was CLEARLY stronger and more physical than us?
It's silly to point to a few players, guys gifted with strength and talent, and then try to paint it across the face of the entire program. The face of the program is one where we get physically whipped when we're unable to merely out-skill or out-athlete other teams.
If it doesn't change, then we will see more of the same. I don't think I can stand more of it! It's sickening to watch our Tigers get punched in the face... That's not the Clemson program I grew up watching. How about you? Not saying we haven't accomplished some good and great things, but if we hope to get to another level, then we better start physically matching up with EVERYONE on our schedule.
There will be some Saturdays where raw skill alone is not enough. If we don't fix our physical issues, then we will see more Saturdays like 2011 GT, NCSU, and USuC. I don't think I can bear to watch that again. How about you?
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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We man handled VT twice last season. "LOL" that***
Apr 22, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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LOL.
Apr 22, 2012, 1:04 PM
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http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12136264#12136264
USuC, just one example of many, physically beat the #### out of us. Completely embarrassing and something no self-respecting Tiger fan should ignore in lieu of VT. The reason we got whipped by USuC is because they were physically stronger at basically every position on the field.
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Recruit [83]
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Re: LOL.
Apr 22, 2012, 8:05 PM
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no they didn't they just showed our D coordinator was our problem with how complex his system was making the players think instead of playing.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Did Steele coach our o-line too?
Apr 23, 2012, 12:12 PM
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Ingram and the boys made us look like pansies.
Look, I love our school and have defended her countless times on this site, but it is simply not possible to deny we have a strength issue that must be addressed if we want to accomplish greater heights.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Antonio Allen played LB at 205 pounds, please they aren't...
Apr 23, 2012, 12:57 AM
[ in reply to LOL. ] |
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any stronger or bigger than us.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Riiiight, and that one guy's weight shows that we haven't
Apr 23, 2012, 12:10 PM
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been pushed around by a lot of teams for a lot of years? And just FYI, two guys can weigh exactly the same but one is stronger than the other.
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CU Guru [1210]
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Re: LOL.
Apr 23, 2012, 6:15 AM
[ in reply to LOL. ] |
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You sir are completely clueless
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: LOL.
Apr 23, 2012, 12:08 PM
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That's a riot. We've been pushed around by many teams, not just last year but for several years. And yet, I'm the one who's clueless? LOL.
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CU Guru [1210]
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Re: LOL. "The list goes on"...
Apr 22, 2012, 8:58 PM
[ in reply to LOL. "The list goes on"... ] |
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coots didnt push our def arround in 2010....they couldnt run the ball on us and not many teams did
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 9:40 AM
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Maybe you can form an opinion from watching our teams get pushed around year after year.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 9:57 AM
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We won the ACC last year. We won the division in 2009 when Batson was S&C coach of the year. We have been pushing around folks ourselves the past few years. And if anyone is blaming Batson for losing to USuCk the past few years, then he deserves the credit for the 10 wins racked up against them in his 15 years here. Sheesh.
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Heisman Winner [111421]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos ] |
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I don't remember our Dline getting pushed around all year.
I saw running QB's abuse the inability of our linebackers no make reads, and in a lot of cases, line up properly.
I saw Gt run a zone read Around Brandon Thompson all day while he was keyed into abusing the wrong gap all day.
I saw shoddy tackling by our secondary and Lb's in most games.
I have seen us recruit an average Oline for a decade now.
from what I saw in the spring game, the right man for the job was brought in to teach fundamentals to our defense.
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 10:08 PM
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You didn't see the D-line get pushed around by NC State? S. Carolina? WVa?
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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the dline didn't get pushed around, the d was late getting..
Apr 23, 2012, 1:06 AM
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lined up like they were all season under Kevin Steele. The LB's didn't fill up open gaps and the DB's were forced constantly to play tight man to man coverage against a spread offense. That's why we lost that game, plus Phillip Price being out that game.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: You mean like how we pushed around VT twice last year***
Apr 22, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Not just a one-year thing. Our offensive lines have been SOFT for years.
Need a yard? Most times, we can't get one unless we run some misdirection.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 9:46 AM
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just watch Wake, Wofford, NCSU, the dirty c$$t and other push us around! that will tell U all U need to know.. O, by the way; did U watch the Orange Bowl??? our S & C program(or lack of one) was on display for all the world!!
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Legend [18133]
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I saw all of those games. I also saw the two manhandlings
Apr 22, 2012, 9:53 AM
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of VT. My OP was aimed at all of those who are drawing conclusions based on the video. Absurd.
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos ] |
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Maybe we need to recruit some mean sobs on the o line. That would go a long way toward fixing our problem. You have to have a mean attitude to play on the line of scrimmage. The s and c coaches don't make nice boys mean.
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 12:35 PM
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Another thing, I think we've had some strong boys on the line that didn't want it as much as the other teams players.
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Legend [18133]
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IMO, Philip Price is very good argument for JB's program.
Apr 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
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He walked on as a TE. Many said last season we were doomed because he was starting at LT. You can look it up--I said he was gonna be a good one because he grew into the position and out-worked everyone else. We had problems on O when he got hurt. He was awesome. The S&C program sure didn't fail Philip!
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Rock Defender [53]
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CU Guru [1198]
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Re: I see your VT, and raise you a GT, NCSU, and USuC (x3)...
Apr 22, 2012, 9:43 PM
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GT certainly didn't push them around. They just had a DC who didn't know how to teach LB how to defend the triple option.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Starter [374]
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strength matters
Apr 22, 2012, 9:57 AM
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People on these forums keep citing examples of how clemson sends skill players and absolute genetic freaks on the dline to the nfl as testament to our s&c program. When in actuality it is only testament to our recruiting ability. The problem is that the players at non-skill positions are not developing strength wise compared to other programs. Its why our O line hasnt been so great in the past. That postion mainly requires more strength training and physical development than other positions.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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if they are not developing then why has Dlinemen...
Apr 22, 2012, 12:56 PM
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been our most drafted position by the NFL over the past ten years?
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Virtuoso [636]
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4th and 1 against Troy and Wofford say hello.
Apr 22, 2012, 10:35 AM
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Oh, then there's SC... who have pushed our $hit in for 3 years. Now, i'm not just talking about them winning... they literally pushed us around the field. SC made a change a few years ago, and look how they've mauled us for 3 years.. and have gotten better overall. And what about the interviews from WV players saying our guys were asking them to go easy on them?
When we lose, it's not because of just missed assignments or because we don't have enough skill players... when we lose, it's because we got out-manned... bottom line.
Message was edited by: SonsOfClemson®
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Legend [18133]
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Serious question:
Apr 22, 2012, 10:43 AM
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How did we kick VT's #### twice if we are so weak? They didn't lose another regular season game. So, were they really weak, too? I don't think so. And we handed them their butts...twice.
I'm guessing it is something more complicated than just who has the best S&C program.
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Virtuoso [636]
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well of course it's a little more complicated..
Apr 22, 2012, 10:49 AM
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but what makes you think that VT was all that physical? maybe they are lacking in that department as well. because this is what I do know...
people have questioned Clemson's toughness (physical) for YEARS now... we get out-manned by teams we shouldn't. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. It's also a fact that I watched this team get out-manned by the likes of Georgia Tech, NC freaking State, SC (AGAIN), and let's not even talk about WV.
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Legend [18133]
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In all seriousness.....I think we b!tch slapped VT because
Apr 22, 2012, 11:07 AM
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our D matched up very well with their offensive style. Yes, VT was physical. They were able to beat everyone else on their regular season schedule (and got gypped in their bowl game, imo) because they overcame their offensive deficiencies with toughness. VT was a good football team last season. Logan Thomas was a serviceable QB at the end of the season. Our D was the problem in our losses. VT allowed our LBs to play downhill because of their weak passing game. We dominated them. We were up to the physical challenge. The games we lost, IMO, was on account of confusion on D. If I'm right, this season will look a lot different as our LBs play downhill all the time.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Rock Defender [53]
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We beat VT because we could defend VT, and ultimately our
Apr 22, 2012, 12:55 PM
[ in reply to Serious question: ] |
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skill won the games.
Did you see the USuC game? Could you not SEE how much bigger and stronger they were than us? Did you not see how they physically pushed us around (because they were stronger)?
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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No SCU wasn't bigger and stronger than us….
Apr 22, 2012, 12:58 PM
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we lost to SCU because Philip Price was out and we had a terrible DC by the name of Kevin Steele.
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Rock Defender [53]
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LMAO. Okay.***
Apr 22, 2012, 1:06 PM
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Virtuoso [636]
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The same terrible DC that everyone is praising because
Apr 22, 2012, 4:15 PM
[ in reply to No SCU wasn't bigger and stronger than us…. ] |
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he stomped VT twice...
lots of folks want to have their cake and to eat it too.
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Legend [18133]
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Once again, I'm not saying you're stupid; you've just had a
Apr 22, 2012, 8:42 PM
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lot of bad luck when it comes to thinking.
Dude, VT's offensive deficiencies played into our hands. For those two games--like no other--our LBs were able to play downhill because they couldn't pass worth a #####.
What part of that do you not understand?
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: Serious question:
Apr 22, 2012, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Serious question: ] |
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We beat their ### because they have NO weapons on the outside. We were able to blitz, blitz, blitz because our DBs could stay with their WRs in man coverage without needing any help.
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Virtuoso [613]
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Another serious question
Apr 22, 2012, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to 4th and 1 against Troy and Wofford say hello. ] |
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Give a single reason to NOT make a change in the S&C dept? Our rivals hire Fitzgerald (from the Hatch coaching tree) 3 yrs ago and the results are evident.
What possible down side is there mixing it up after all these years? Would our players be in worse shape? Would Wofford push our O-line backwards 5 yrds instead of 3?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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they also hired a new DC and spurrier changed his spots and
Apr 22, 2012, 11:21 AM
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his offense, but we'll ignore those things.
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Legend [18133]
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Exactly. Let's also ignore the fact that we're talking
Apr 22, 2012, 11:28 AM
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about someone's livelihood here, too. Maybe we should fire people everywhere because another business made a good hire and it would be good to "mix it up a bit."
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Virtuoso [636]
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Yeah... we kept that livelihood around for way too long-
Apr 22, 2012, 11:33 AM
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TOMMY BOWDEN.
But hey, we eventually shook things up, right?
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Legend [18133]
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TB's extension was a mistake. I agree. The reason he
Apr 22, 2012, 11:38 AM
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failed, however, was his stubborn loyalty to staff members who weren't getting it done. Most notably, RS. Dabo is not afraid to make necessary changes. He doesn't think it's necessary to make a change in S&C.
Politics? Maybe, I don't know. Let's see how much difference BV makes before we decide our problem last year was toughness, though. I think it had more to do with KS than JB.
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Virtuoso [613]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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because those in charge are not convinced it's THE
Apr 22, 2012, 11:32 AM
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problem?
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: Who's ignoring that?
Apr 22, 2012, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to Who's ignoring that? ] |
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> Those changes absolutely have helped them be more
> successful. Their change at S&C was also a huge part
> of that.
>
> My original question remains: why NOT make a change?
SCAR didn't make a change at S/C because they felt they needed to, they HAD to hire another S/C coach because their old one left for UT after Lane Kiffin practically doubled his salary.
I think SCAR was very happy with their S/C program under that guy and the Tigers were beating SCAR more times than not while he was in place.
Some of y'all make it sound like SCAR decided their problem was S/C so the hired a new guy to "fix it" and that is the reason for their domination the last 3 years. That is not how it played out.
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Virtuoso [636]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Rock Defender [53]
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LOL
Apr 22, 2012, 12:58 PM
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"Hi DSP!! It's me,the elephant!"
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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please tell me you didn't get into clemson?***
Apr 22, 2012, 1:08 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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LOL. You're just being an idiot now. I thought you were
Apr 22, 2012, 1:14 PM
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smarter than that.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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of course i am, just me having an opinion and you being your
Apr 22, 2012, 1:21 PM
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usual 'angry self' who doesn't and apparently can't play well with others.
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Rock Defender [53]
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LOL. Yes, of course, I'm "angry"..
Apr 22, 2012, 1:28 PM
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We already talked about our opinions. I think it's obvious mine is more supported than yours. Yours is shortsighted and does not address the whole picture. The whole picture can be summed up by the irrefutable fact we get physically dominated when we lose. Period.
And please, try to focus on the real issue here instead of going off in some imaginary, silly tangent in an effort to ignore the elephant. By the way, he's still laughing at you.
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12136355#12136355
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Rock Defender [53]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
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Rock Defender [53]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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lbu is a friend as is gwp, it's what we do.
Apr 22, 2012, 1:56 PM
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do you believe jonnyboy actually has a pit?
do you believe the pic in franc's bio is franc?
do you think lbu and gwp stole the F350 last year?
you've proven you have a hard time grasping things, you are more than welcome to continue to do so.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Don't be so sensitive...
Apr 23, 2012, 12:14 PM
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I haven't proven anything of the sort. Please, again, stop making things up.
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Legend [17248]
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Virtuoso [636]
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I have infinitely more than TWO games to draw my conclusion
Apr 22, 2012, 11:44 AM
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from. Open your mind a little
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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fsu, auburn[twice physically, funny scu got handled 3 of 3
Apr 22, 2012, 11:54 AM
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including a 16-13 loss at home that cost them the seceast crown...
navy was a late interception from beating them... hard to believe a spurrier team ran their big back 37 times and yet on 4th and short with the game on the line mighty navy held...
Navy (2-1) stopped Lattimore for a loss just once, and it was on a fourth down with 5:34 to go, giving the Midshipmen a shot to win with their option attack that had left the Gamecocks defense befuddled at times.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/gameflash/2011/09/17/47865_recap.html#ixzz1smioZbl1
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Virtuoso [636]
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Oh!!!!! So, Joey Batson has only been here one season?
Apr 22, 2012, 11:58 AM
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My bad.. I was under the wrong impression
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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what's joey's overall record against the coots now? since
Apr 22, 2012, 12:03 PM
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it's ALL his fault, he must get ALL the credit for the wins; nothing else matters right?
do you think joey has the acc championship trophy on his mantle at home?
nah, probably a replica, don't won't him to break the original since he can't push paper.
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Virtuoso [636]
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Yes... this is all clearly about when we play SC...
Apr 22, 2012, 12:18 PM
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I love how no one has still not answered the question.. because if they did, it would begin with "making a change at S&C would be a bad thing because..."
yet, no one can answer that.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Legend [18133]
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I'm not saying you're stupid; it's just that you've had a
Apr 22, 2012, 12:25 PM
[ in reply to Yes... this is all clearly about when we play SC... ] |
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lot of bad luck when it comes to thinking.
We didn't dominate VT twice by being the weaker team. Our issues last year were primarily the D being confused and hamstrung by KS's pro defense.
I'll make a prediction. BV will have our D playing nasty again. Even with a young OL, we'll score a lot of points and give up fewer than last year. I'm bullish on Clemson. It's a definite buy.
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Legend [18133]
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Re: fsu, auburn[twice physically, funny scu got handled 3 of 3
Apr 22, 2012, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to fsu, auburn[twice physically, funny scu got handled 3 of 3 ] |
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The irony here is, SCar's fabulous new S&C coach is the reason they've beaten us three in-a-row, according to some of these guys. Their argument against JB is our inability to pick up short yardage. Bet they don't see the irony.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
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Rock Defender [53]
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Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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are you going to continue throwing a tantrum over your
Apr 22, 2012, 1:22 PM
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opinion being THE, 'there can be only one', of tnet?
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Rock Defender [53]
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LOL I'm throwing a tantrum?...
Apr 22, 2012, 1:32 PM
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It's pretty obvious you're not completely in touch with reality here. You're simply making things up now. Oh well, here's reality if you're ever able to snap out of it. You think you could actually try to address the facts instead of making things up?
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12136355#12136355
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Savant [470]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Wrong.***
Apr 22, 2012, 1:04 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Joined: 2/25/06
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Rock Defender [53]
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Athletic Dir [864]
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Players do a lot more than just working lifting weights
Apr 22, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Watch the practice drills
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Recruit [89]
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Coultn't agree more! The only difference in these videos
Apr 22, 2012, 12:29 PM
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was in their production. USuCk's video was obviously designed as much as a motivational piece as a documentary of the weight training program. Clemson's simply documented specific portions of the weight lifting. Furthermore, they focused on different segments of the training/lifting program. Clemson's video generally focused on purely weight training--bench press and squats predominately. We did not see much of the movement/agility drills, while SC focused on those portions of their workout and showed very little of their weight lifting.
For my money, the drills shown on the SC video--rope fulls and one-on-one tug of wars translate little if at all to the football field. When are you ever pulling in that manner on the field? Never. And seems to put undue strain on key ligaments (knees, shoulders, elbows especially).
I'll take Joey B. any day of the week, and all this flack he's getting from the uninformed peanut gallery is getting ridiculous. News flash, Batson knows more than you, about weight training, calisthenics, agility drills, etc.
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Rock Defender [53]
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"apples to apples"....
Apr 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
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We got our a$$es physically kicked at every position on the field... for 3 straight years at that. They're CLEARLY bigger and stronger than us, therefore, they're doing something better in the S$C department. It's silly to try and argue they aren't.
This is the apples to apples comparison. Thanks.
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Legend [18133]
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By your very own agument, we did the same to VT twice.
Apr 22, 2012, 12:47 PM
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Pretty much cancels out. I really believe KS was the bigger problem.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Legend [18133]
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That's a similar argument to my own, but with a
Apr 22, 2012, 1:08 PM
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different conclusion. I saw us blow VT up. You say we finessed them.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Again,
Apr 22, 2012, 1:13 PM
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We knew EXACTLY how to stop VT and we primarily used our skill. Regardless, I think it's hilarious for anyone to come on this board and deny we have some physical issues that must be addressed if we hope to move up to the next level. For me, I KNOW what I've SEEN on the field, for years running, and I'm with Coach Morris - it must be fixed. We MUST get stronger and more physical.
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Legend [18133]
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And I'm saying there is no way to deny we kicked their
Apr 22, 2012, 1:24 PM
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butts. We didn't just run around them, we ran through them twice.
BTW, would you please remove the elephant pic; it's screwing up the whole thread.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Okay. You win. Teams like GT, NCSU, and USuC didn't
Apr 22, 2012, 1:34 PM
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physically beat the #### out of us. Okee doke, you convinced me. No need to get stronger and more physical. Hopefully Coach Morris comes around to your way of thinking.
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Legend [18133]
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If this is a serious discussion, I believe those losses were
Apr 22, 2012, 1:39 PM
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a combination of confusion on D and the loss of Price at LT. This season with BV will demonstrate whether I'm right. If we have the same issues, maybe it's S&C. I choose to believe we have the pieces in place to have a special run for several years to come.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: If this is a serious discussion, I believe those losses were
Apr 23, 2012, 12:06 PM
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Even if you choose that argument, you still can't deny their d-line threw our o-line out of the way like rag dolls. They were clearly stronger than us. And it wasn't just USuC, and it hasn't been just last year.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: OK, younguns, listen up. If you're comparing S&C videos
Apr 22, 2012, 8:35 PM
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My judgement is on 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1. When is the last time we consistently converted these situations running the ball behind our very powerful o-line? Until our guys start knocking people on their arses then yes we are weak.
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Commissioner [922]
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Re: Serious question:
Apr 22, 2012, 9:09 PM
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I don't know if it was s&c or not. But fact of the matter is WVU absolutely demolished us. We r soft sorry it's true. It's a mental toughness thing. We need some mr nasty out there. I think we will get this fixed for sure. Go tigers. And remember u can't spell suck without USC.
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CU Guru [1898]
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You Mean To Lecture
Apr 23, 2012, 12:39 AM
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us on Tigernet who know more about the S&C business at Clemson than the Tiger athletic staff and S&C coaches?? For that matter, we usually know more than the HC and position coaches on play calling, too. So there!! Geeze, what nerve!
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Legend [18133]
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I know. I must be insane.***
Apr 23, 2012, 11:18 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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This is a silly argument...
Apr 23, 2012, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to You Mean To Lecture ] |
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I seriously doubt there's a person who posts here who knows more about S&C than our current staff, but what a ton of people are fully capable of SEEING is that other teams impose their physical will on us and literally push us around. Again, if you can't see South Carolina (for example) has done exactly that, then you're either blind or in denial. That, at least in most part, is due to strength and conditioning.
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Legend [18133]
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Or not. It could have been due to a defense that often
Apr 23, 2012, 12:38 PM
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looked like keystone kops before the snap and lack of depth on the OL.
Let's give BV a chance to prove that point and let's hope our top 7 on the OL remain healthy this season. The loss of Price hurt us badly last year.
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