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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Hypothetical
Feb 6, 2020, 1:04 PM
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If Lindsey Graham proceeds with an investigation into the Bidens and finds legitimate and extensive financial corruption, will he still be “impeached for life?”
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All-In [46825]
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If by he you mean Trump
Feb 6, 2020, 1:06 PM
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yes.
He will be.
He has been since the gavel came down that night the house voted.
For a party that claims "Protect the Constitution above all else" yall sure haven't read it.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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that is the equivelent of being charged for a crime for life
Feb 6, 2020, 1:19 PM
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just after college I got arrested for "public intoxication" in Dirty Myrtle.
I asked for a jury trial and represented myself.
I was acquitted.
When I run my background check for my security clearance, that charge is still on there, 30 years later.
but guess what.......it doesn't matter because right beside it, right there in capital letters is ACQUITTED.
I feel certain that Trump will wear it as a badge to prove how partisan and hateful the house of rep is.
It hasnt affected Clinton.
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All-In [46825]
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"The House has the SOLE power of Impeachment"
Feb 6, 2020, 1:23 PM
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They don't have to walk documents to the Senate for it to be official.
The Senate doesn't have to remove the President for it to be official.
If that was the case then Clinton and Johnson would not be impeached... which they are... and now Trump.
Trump is impeached. Period. No ifs no buts.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Again, he will wear it as a badge & his poll numbers are up
Feb 6, 2020, 1:26 PM
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because of it
The american people see it as what it was.
Pelosi is trying to make a brownie out of a turd. Yes she and her ilk passed articles of impeachment. And those articles fell flat.
Next crisis please.
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All-In [49039]
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Look, politically it was bad for Dems and Pelosi knew it
Feb 6, 2020, 3:29 PM
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she was forced into this by fear of losing her speakership. Sure, there was some outside chance it worked for them, but she knew the moment she took up the articles that Mitch McConnell would do everything he could to kill it virtually no matter what it was for.
Politically, this was potentially a disaster for Democrats. And she knew it going in.
But I don't think the majority of Americans see it the way you see it. I think the majority of Americans are just tired of watching our government flail around like a fish on the floor of a john boat.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I don't recall such colloquial language in the past
Feb 6, 2020, 4:11 PM
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"tired of watching our government flail around like a fish on the floor of a john boat."
Nice simile though
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All-In [49039]
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SInce his impeachment wasn't about whether or not
Feb 6, 2020, 1:06 PM
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the Bidens were corrupt, I would think so.
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All-In [26968]
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Yes, I fail to see the logic behind why it matters
Feb 6, 2020, 1:10 PM
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whether anyone named Biden did anything wrong, in terms of the President. It matters to the Bidens whether they did something wrong, of course, but it has nothing to do with the President and his behavior.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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All-In [49039]
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You're agreeing with me...
Feb 6, 2020, 1:21 PM
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the reason it was improper was because he didn't do it until it was in his political interest to do so. He was in office a long time with no investigations into Biden and then Biden announces he's running and all of sudden corruption in Ukraine needs investigating immediately.
That is why this was wrong, whether or not it rises to the level of impeachment.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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No, this was what’s been repeated over and over by
Feb 6, 2020, 1:51 PM
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Democrats. Trey Gowdy asked a legitimate question as to whether this would have been an issue if it had been any other politician and this brings me back to my original question about Biden. Does running for office absolve you from any investigation if there are legitimate concerns about corruption? This argument seems cyclical...
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All-In [28802]
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No, it isn't, though
Feb 6, 2020, 1:57 PM
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That's why a number of Republicans have said what Trump did was inappropriate and wrong. They recognize that it's at least a major conflict of interest, and that in such cases, you need to be careful about how you go about things. Trump's version of "being careful" was apparently having Rudy Giuliani running a back-channel foreign policy and directly asking the Ukrainian President for investigations on a call that was supposed to be about congratulating Zelensky for winning. He could've had US agencies start an investigation, which would've been more proper.
At any rate, the whole thing was based on a conspiracy theory that nobody besides Trump and Guiliani seemed to believe. Trump could've just moved on, but it sure seems like he was more interested in lashing out at political opponents.
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All-In [49039]
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Of course it doesn't...
Feb 6, 2020, 2:05 PM
[ in reply to No, this was what’s been repeated over and over by ] |
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But if you know something bad happened, and you know who probably did it, and you have the power to investigate, and you choose not to for 2 years, only to suddenly decide that it must be investigated right now when it becomes politically helpful reeks of an improper use of the office and powers of the President.
And I guess if it had been any other politician not running against him for president, it most likely would not have resulted in impeachment.
The sitting POTUS used the power of his office to try and injure a political rival by enlisting the aid of a foriegn government through bribery.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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he's obviously a threat to democracy, US national security
Feb 6, 2020, 3:54 PM
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and is probably why I lost some socks in the dryer last week.
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All-In [49039]
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okay***
Feb 6, 2020, 4:02 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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The current Ukrainian president wasn’t president those two years
Feb 6, 2020, 4:47 PM
[ in reply to Of course it doesn't... ] |
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The new president apparently ran on anti corruption and the call was a congratulatory call for his win...so the two year thing is a dead talking point especially if the previous Ukrainian administration was a part of that corruption. What good would it do to include them in indicting themselves?
Biden doesn’t get a free pass, and the voters apparently feel the same way. What was he fourth in the Iowa Caucus? To turn a blind eye to the Biden’s situation and say it’s been sufficiently investigated is asinine. When was the investigation? Who did the investigation? Any testimonies? Witnesses? Is Biden’s word enough?
Anyone who would not be concerned about government officials using their office to line their families pockets should take a step back and reevaluate. Were the Democrats not concerned with Trump and his family? With Ivanka and China?
I swear, the double standard is astounding. And if his situation gets properly investigated and finds malfeasance, I guarantee the defenders of Biden and attackers of Trump will still find a way to say this is Trumps fault. The country is getting jaded with these repeated accusations and assaults...heaven forbid Trump actually does something diabolical, no one will believe it with all the other attacks he’s endured crying wolf.
Look, he’s not perfect and says some ridiculous things. I don’t agree with all of his policies but that’s been the case with every president we’ve had. But the relentless attacks are going to do nothing but push more of the middle to Trumps side.
The Democrats should now focus on winning 2024. This one isn’t going to happen unless Trump manages to commit political suicide.
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All-In [28802]
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Either way, there were better avenues for an investigation
Feb 6, 2020, 1:11 PM
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More conscientious people try to find ways of avoiding appearance of conflict of interest. It's a bit hard to believe that Trump's focus on Biden and Ukraine was really just about a general concern for Ukrainian corruption, though, especially given that Trump's motivation for paying any attention to Ukraine was the conspiracy theory that Ukraine had somehow been involved in the election meddling in 2016.
The question shouldn't really be whether Trump tried to get Ukraine to investigate a political opponent for personal gain. He pretty clearly did, and as multiple Republicans who voted against conviction have said, that wasn't good. The question is whether that warranted removal.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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"investigation of political opponent for 'personal gain'"
Feb 6, 2020, 1:23 PM
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I keep hearing that.
Is the impeachment process not Pelosi attacking a political opponent for personal gain?
She is trying to remove a sitting president to further HER and her parties political interests.
To increase her power.
She is trying to influence the 2020 election, while also trying to OVERTURN the 2016 election.
To say that the House's actions were anything else is lying to yourself and anyone that hears you.
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All-In [49039]
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Maybe, but impeachment is a constitutional process
Feb 6, 2020, 1:26 PM
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that Pelosi followed same as Gingrich did against Clinton. It's not strong-arming a foreign government to find dirt on a political opponent.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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So if Dunham's investigation ties "russiagate" to
Feb 6, 2020, 1:47 PM
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Clinton, Biden, or maybe even Obama, will the DOJ's indictments be seen as Trump getting revenge? Will it be seen as a constitutional crisis? Will you call it 'Banana Republic tactics' from Trump?
What if Senate investigations prove that the Bidens personally received taxpayer funds illegally? Will that be seen as revenge?
Or should we take the investigations at their word, as y'all insist on investigations against Trump?
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All-In [49039]
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I'll probaby wait to form any strong opinions
Feb 6, 2020, 3:25 PM
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until I see the results of the investigations.
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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She didn't ask another country to investigate him, she
Feb 6, 2020, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to "investigation of political opponent for 'personal gain'" ] |
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didn't even initiate the investigation. US Diplomatic and WH employees reported wrongdoing. Not to mention that she has absolutely nothing to personally gain by starting the impeachment process. NP doesn't want to be president, this is her last gig.
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Heisman Winner [137908]
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Legend [18023]
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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It was.
Feb 6, 2020, 2:58 PM
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The house could have gotten that, probably with pub support.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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But “Censured For Life!” doesn’t sound as cool
Feb 6, 2020, 3:16 PM
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It’s always the optics not the actual result.
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Legend [18023]
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They can still censure him if they want
Feb 6, 2020, 3:22 PM
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and let me be clear, I think impeachment and removal was warranted, but clearly not going to happen because of the politics of party before country. The fact that a majority of Republicans continue to think Trump did nothing wrong, even to the levels of a censure, is astounding.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Was censure even brought up as an option?
Feb 6, 2020, 3:52 PM
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Its been "get rid of him" since before he took office.
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Legend [18023]
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not until the end by Manchin
Feb 6, 2020, 4:12 PM
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The fact that Trump's behavior and actions don't even warrant a censure is pretty telling and to the senators (like Collins/Alexander) who think Trump "learned his lesson" just need to look at how emboldened he was today in his speech to realize how ludicrous an idea that truly is.
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