Topic: ESPN: ACC coaches have theory on SEC success
Replies: 37   Last Post: Aug 13, 2013 4:21 PM by: tmac9wr
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ESPN: ACC coaches have theory on SEC success

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 8:32 AM

Aug 13 8:00AM ET
By Heather Dinich | ESPN.com


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the only difference is that Slive made a concerted,

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 8:39 AM

calculated decision to make football their number 1 priority whereas, as long as Swofford and UNC are running the show (you have to cut off the head--UNC--to kill the snake), basketball will always be a number one priority.

We have/will have (including Notre "Just the Tip" Dame) at least 10 teams: CU, ND, FSU, GT, VT, Miami, Pitt, 'Cuse, BC, and Louisville who have enjoyed success in the past. All of those schools have either a Heisman Trophy Winner or have played for a MNC. The only thing holding these schools (and the ACC) back is devoting the resources to football that it takes.

The ACC can be just as good as the SEC. All of the (football) schools just have to buy into the mentality.

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Then how can you blame Swofford for that?

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:00 AM

Swofford can't make schools re-allocate funds between sports.

Also, you just cannot include ND in the football discussion for the ACC. They are NOT an ACC team for football.

I have ranted against Swofford for years, but I think he may be on to something with this conference. As you said, we have plenty of schools that can win in football: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Miami, Louisville. Even schools like NCSU, UNC, UVA, Pitt and Syracuse can be strong "mid-tier" schools and contribute to a strong football conference right now. But if these conference networks are the wave of the future, having the undisputed best basketball in the country could be huge. Add to that great baseball, lacrosse, soccer and women's basketball, as well as being a conference that is almost as old as televised football itself. (interesting note found on Wikipedia: "...the first national broadcast of a live college football game, which was also the first coast-to-coast live broadcast of any sports contest, was Duke at the University of Pittsburgh on September 29, 1951 on NBC.") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_on_television#Early_televised_broadcasts

And add to all that a strong presence in the densely-populated key markets in the northeast and the rapidly growing southeast.

The story is pretty compelling for the ACC's future.


ND will be in the ACC by 2018. I guarantee it.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:20 AM

The new playoff system does have the built-in ND coddle that the BCS had and they will have to join full-time to be taken seriously anymore. The way the BCS was set up, ND had an auto-bid if they were ranked a certain number--that gave them as much power as any conference. They will have to join the ACC full-time to get representation in the new system.

Football has to be made a priority by the conference as much as the schools. My point was, the SEC schools didn't all independently decide to sink money into football--it was a conscious decision by their conference leadership. Swofford can do it--get us better bowls, work some marquis matchups, be creative. Why couldn't we do an SEC/ACC challenge the first weekend of the season in football? There are ways to put ACC football out there. The Conference leadership just hasn't shown a commitment.

Keeping the Orange Bowl was big and I applaud him for that but he's done little since the BC/VT/Miami expansion to show that basketball is not the number one priority in he league office. Football butters the Conference's bread, basketball gets the Baby Blues off.

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Doubt ND will ever join in football after the year they had last year.***

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:02 AM


Message was edited by: josephg®

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Re: Doubt ND will ever join after the year they had last year.***

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:09 AM

They have joined in everything but football. They may have to if they want to play in the national championship tournament in football in the distant future.

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Excuse me, sir, but he GUARANTEED it. ******

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:27 AM


I don't know that it was a conscious decision by Slive.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:04 AM

I mean, Slive has been Commish over there since 2002. It's not like Auburn, Bama, Florida, LSU, Georgia and Tennessee just realized that football is their sport!

I also don't think he has much say on OOC match-ups. We do play in the Kick-off Classic down in Atlanta, which is a nice feature.

But other areas I do agree - he could work to get better bowls, and honestly I think our bowl situation is good and he is making efforts to improve it - like including Notre Dame in the mix. He could also set-up the schedule to give the ACC teams a break before key SEC rivalry games (like the SEC already does) and make games like FSU-Clemson later in the season.

Notre Dame joining for football would be huge. I hope you're right. If for no other reason than we can get them and one other team and be done with this expansion stuff.

Anyway, I will re-iterate my opinion that the ACC has a ton of unique tools to allow it to excel in the coming years. Hopefully we take advantage of them.


LOL. SEC schools are bigger, have more alumni and

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:01 AM

can fill the bigger stadiums. This adds a lot of pageantry to these stadiums.

Genenerally speaking it comes down to mostly state schools vs. private schools. The SEC only has one private school.

It's always been like this.

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It is just one factor

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 8:48 AM

and you could argue that some of the other conferences have similar crowds and followings. For the ACC the challenge will always be there because many of the state schools still have smaller student populations. The only real exception is FSU. Even Miami is a midsize public school. UNC is SEC size in population, but almost half of their students are at the graduate level, which is not the most ardent fan base.

All I'm suggesting is that by this argument B1G should be as dominant and 'slobbered over' by the sports media world, if crowds were the primary factor. Football comes first. School size matters. And then the crowds follow.

miami is private, just a heads up.***

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:00 AM

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Thanks for correction.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:10 AM

So put Miami in the Duke/WF/Syracuse/BC category where size will never be a primary target.

I still see the 'bigger and more energetic (??)' crowds argument as a chicken/egg situation. When you graduate 10k more students a year it doesn't take long for the money-giving, TV-watching, stadium-filling differences to grow. But the B1G has equally large student populations for the most part and some of the bigger stadiums (2 or 3 are 100k+). The slobber factor and BCS records are not the same. At least, that's my impression.

i think miami is an oddity & should be treated separately.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:20 AM

they have a national following & rivaled any team's brand 10 years ago.

daU can easily be a monster again, sooner if they come thru the ncaa committee on infractions relatively unscathed.

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Agree but the argument about size isn't necessarily true.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 4:11 PM

Look at UCF. I believe they're the largest Uni' in the Florida.

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Re: Agree but the argument about size isn't necessarily true.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 4:21 PM

I actually think they may be the largest in the US.

Miami is private, but agree - alumni base size is key.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:04 AM

ACC does not have the alumni bases to fill 85k seat stadiums. A few schools arguably could/should have more support than they do - however even those schools have something "more" in their vicinity.

Alabama, SCar, LSU, Miss schools - what else is there? It's not a slight - college football is king - and there is no other option to even combat it.

It's a fact, doesn't mean the ACC doesn't/can't compete - we have/do/and will...but we need to work toward our niche. I think ACC needs to look toward taking advantage of some of the larger metro areas we are in. Go after more big $ in Atlanta, Charlotte, DC (even w/o Mary), Philly, NYC, Boston, etc.


There's no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people who ask questions.

Re: Miami is private, but agree - alumni base size is key.

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 3:47 PM

The problem with metros like NYC and Boston (maybe Philly too) is that they really don't care about college football. I was born and raised in the Boston area and I loved college football since I could walk...but I was one of the few. The Northeast has tons and tons of money, but they're pro sports towns.

Re: ESPN: ACC coaches have theory on SEC success

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 8:56 AM

THIS IS A BUNCH OF BS. It is paid for by the conference hype machine ESPN. Jimbo Fisher - the champ of doing less with more, and the head of Duke football need to shut up. One thing the SEC doesn't do is insult itself.

I noticed Jimbo did not talk about daunting trips to Vandy, Kentucky, or Starkville. Imagine the intensity of a South Carolina - Missouri game in the near midwest. This is stupid.

Paul Johnson is a prick but he is right.

The SEC has dominated the BCS era because (1)they designed the BCS (Slive is an evil genius) and understand the advantage of league hype and (2) they have had good players. I have no problem with (2) but (1) can't be overlooked.

one big reason is the SEC protects its own schedule-wise

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:42 AM

they play up these "daunting" schedules when in reality, the top teams seem to amazingly avoid playing each other.....

Alabama 2013 schedule
Date Opponent / Event Location Time / Result

08/31/13 vs. Virginia Tech TV Atlanta, Ga. 4:30 p.m. CT
09/14/13 at Texas A&M * TV College Station, Texas 2:30 p.m. CT
09/21/13 vs. Colorado State Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA
09/28/13 vs. Ole Miss * Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA
10/05/13 vs. Georgia State Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA
10/12/13 at Kentucky * Lexington, Ky. TBA
10/19/13 vs. Arkansas * Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA
10/26/13 vs. Tennessee * Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA
11/09/13 vs. LSU * Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA
11/16/13 at Mississippi State * Starkville, Miss. TBA
11/23/13 vs. Chattanooga Tuscaloosa, Ala. TBA
11/30/13 at Auburn * Auburn, Ala. TBA

CLEMSON plays a tougher SEC schedule (#5 UGA, at #7 SCAR) than Alabama does (at #6 TAMU, #13 LSU). 6 top 20 SEC teams, Bama plys 2 of them.

Their schedules are generally full of the KYs, Missous, and Miss Sts.

6 top 20 SEC teams, SCAR plays 2 of them (UGA, Fla)
6 top 20 SEC teams, UGA plays 2 of them (Fla, SCAR)
6 top 20 SEC teams, TAMU plays 2 of them (LSU, Bama)
6 top 20 SEC teams, LSU plays 4 of them (what a fluke!)
6 top 20 SEC teams, Fla plays 3 of them (LSU, SCAR, UGA)


Re: one big reason is the SEC protects its own schedule-wise

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:44 AM

LSU fans feel like the conference dumps on them. I think a lot are sick of conference management.

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Re: one big reason is the SEC protects its own schedule-wise

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 3:56 PM

What you seem to be ignoring is that LSU has been top 5 consistently for the past few years and going into last year and Arkansas was predicted to be Top 5 until Petrino did what he did.

Alabama plays a tough schedule man...I don't know why you're trying to push the idea that they don't.

Re: one big reason is the SEC protects its own schedule-wise

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 3:56 PM

I'd like to add that it's definitely not the toughest of the SEC schedules.

I agree. Packed stadiums where the pressure is on you many

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:47 AM

times during the year makes you stronger--makes you more competitive as you sharpen your skills and play in tough environments. For us it is only FSU in the ACC that represents any of what you get in the SEC. Fortunately we also play USuC and usually another SEC every year in a big-time game environment.

Now, speaking of Clemson-FSU -- it is as big as any SEC game but it only happens 1X a year.

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I will add that playing UNCheat or Miamicheat on a regular

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:55 AM

basis would create some noise and passion. UNCheat is an old rival and we played some good games back in the 80's. Miami is an old power. Both of those games would create interest. So would an annual Clemson vs Virginia Tech clash.

Message was edited by: AThomas®

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Re: ESPN: ACC coaches have theory on SEC success

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:50 AM

I have lived and worked in several parts of the country. Happy to be back in the south east but the facts are college football is not as big once you get out of the south. There is just not much else to do, there aren't the local pro sports teams to get involved with so many people associate with the local college team.

Even in Florida they have good college football but they also have beaches galore, Disney, golf, big cities with plenty to do Tampa, Miami, West Palm, Jacksonville, Orlando, most with pro teams.

Man of us grew up with an occasional trip to catch the falcons or braves but it was a big deal. We may have followed them but we couldn't skip school and catch a braves game like kids do in bigger cities with local pro sports. So we end up pulling harder for college teams even people who never set foot in a classroom. That doesn't happen in other areas.

The ACC does not have many of the big state schools or should I clarify the ones they do have are in areas where there is so much more to do / or bring in more people from non south areas, Maryland, UNC, UVA, not exactly towns like Tuscaloosa, Oxford, Starkville in states like Miss and Bama.

Not sure what it may be but something is there. UVA has won more than USC yet will never have the fan base for football don't really know why. Again, this is from someone who went to both USC and Clemson and know many fans from both schools who never set foot in a classroom.
I don't know many non UVA people who are rabid fans yet never went to school there


I went to UVA for grad school, the problem there is central

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:56 AM

VA is a very sparsely populated area. It does well with that crowd, but there is no major city. VA Tech dominates the northern VA crowd. Redskins are also the main attraction anywhere near DC. I'm not sure which way Hampton/VA Beach goes (other than producing tons of players). UVA can't ever seem to shake the wanting to be decent at best in football because it implies better academics. They take more pride in basketball and lacrosse. I'm amazed at what baseball has done there since they put some money into it. That state is loaded with athletes, but a lot get poached.

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Great post***

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:13 AM

sec made a great hire in slive, he's a businessman from

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:50 AM

the Ivy league. You'll never find colder more calculating folks than that crowd. Swofford is still the old style commissioner who has an athletic administration background. He doesn't have the training to compete in pure business strategy. I hate to see college athletics go the way of the rest of the world, but there's money in it so there it goes.

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Swofford couldn't negotiate his way out of his own driveway

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:55 AM

with a GPS device.

He is an incompetent self-serving nepotistic buffoon.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.

This man speaks the truth ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^***

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 10:21 AM

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My old Grandad used to say, "When one door closes, another one opens". Great man, lousy cabinet maker though.

Re: This man speaks the truth ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^***

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 10:52 AM

I am not a swofford fan BUT who else could he have added to our conference that would have been a better football school? he didn't have many options. I personally think we made a mistake by not taking west Virginia. I know it was supposed to be about academics but Louisville, really? worse than wv as far as academics. I don't see any other school he could have added that would have been better in football. the acc is and always will be a basketball conference. perception IS reality. it may change in time, but I don't see it happening. nd will be forced to join a conference for football and we can only hope it will be the acc.

The ACC is a split conference:

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:04 AM

To the North of Cape Fear (except for the far Western region near the mountains)are a whole bunch of basketball schools (Duke, UNCheat, Virginia, Syracuse, NCState, Wake Forest, etc.)

To the South of Cape Fear are football schools: Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson. Add to them the teams in the far West of the conference--Virginia Tech, Pitt, and Louisville.

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Re: ESPN: ACC coaches have theory on SEC success

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 10:55 AM

Whoever thinks Clemson plays a tougher SEC schedule than Alabama needs to get back to reality.

Sure Bama plays LSU and Texas A&M but look at the stretch of Kentucky, Arkansas, Tenn, LSU, Miss St all back to back.

I don't think Clemson has ever had a schedule with decent (not world beaters) in that many back to back games.

The facts are this: How does Clemson or any ACC team for that matter line up after this realistic similar schedule

Fla St
Ga Tech

That would be a tough haul for anyone and yet that is similar to what SEC teams play with bigger crowds. The coaches know, they have been there. They know what it is like to have a duke or wake type team with an 80K stadium with crazy fans. Much more likely to pull one out. In another twist give Va Tech an 90K stadium and how much would that impact a few extra wins for an already good team.

That is all I read into it was the teams are not that much different from top to bottom, you just have bottom teams that field a decent team a few years in a row with 90K fans that could slip up and beat a good team any weekend. Makes it harder week in week out than it does in the ACC playing an ok team in front of 40K people. Players get used to that then end up at Clemson or Fla St and the crowd gets to them. Think Clemson and Fla St type stadiums 8 out of 11 weekends can be pretty daunting


Personally, I agree more with Dabo on this matter!

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 10:59 AM

"There's a lot of rivalries out there. This is more of a domination. And that's a fact. My kids grandkids won't ever live long enough to ever see this become a rivalry. It is what it is." Clemson over SC 65-41-4, SEC over ACC 280-135-10. Fisher and Cutcliffe are absolutely right. The big game atmosphere adds an edge to the SEC teams that ACC teams don't get every week.

UVA is a good example of what is wrong with some of the ACC

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:07 AM

Snob schools that don't care about football. It is beneath them and only a good reason for a party if Buffy and Biff can't play polo that day cause their ponies are sick.
Academics and football can coexist (see Notre Dame) but some of these schools should get an invite to leave the ACC. Here's looking at you too Duke.

a few things; uva has the 4th largest stadium in the

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:26 AM

acc[excluding land shark]. they spent millions hiring groh from the ny jets in hopes he would build on what george welsh started in the late 80s thru the 90s. i've been at many uva games including their upset of then undefeated fsu, welsh eventually took that team to #1 in the land.

welsh owned the head to head vs beamer & put a ton on talent in the nfl; they continue to do so.

groh set that program back years. he crapped on many of the relationships welsh had built in and around virginia, especially in tidewater.

i don't know if london is the answer. i do know uva is pouring millions into the program. they allowed london to fire half his staff and bring in a bunch of experience to help right the ship. we'll see, but uva is one of the programs that has the alumni backing[$29mil recently matched by a single booster], student population, school & setting to make noise.

i'd love to see the program back where it was heading under welsh.

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Actually, UVa fans do care about football....

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:55 AM

but only when the team is winning. Similar to Maryland, they are some of the worst fairweather fans you will encounter. Hiring Al Groh was a HUGE mistake for UVa. He set the program back decades and took the fan interest with it.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.

Good article...

Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:20 AM

I've always thought the passion and pageantry makes SEC great to watch and follow. I can see why the recent string of champions makes it so easy for ESPN and others to ride the hype train.

The bottom of the conference isn't great and the SEC isn't unbreakable, but it is the best conference when add everything together. Its a high stakes game each week with large crowds.

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