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All-In [26968]
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If NASCAR/Bubba Wallace
Jul 6, 2020, 3:30 PM
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were guilty of "rushing to judgment" about a suspected noose being found in a garage, who was/were the victim(s) of this rush to judgment?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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NASCAR/Bubba Wallace***
Jul 6, 2020, 3:33 PM
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All-In [38514]
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Apparently Trump.***
Jul 6, 2020, 3:35 PM
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All-In [26968]
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The President tweeted that Bubba Wallace should
Jul 6, 2020, 3:49 PM
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apologize. He said that he should apologize to fellow NASCAR drivers and officials who stood with him. I'm thinking...why would he apologize to them?...nothing bad happened to them in the situation.
Interestingly, I read that the Press Secretary said, about the tweet, that the President was making a "broader point" about not rushing to judgment before seeing facts. I gotta say, publicly calling out an individual about a specific incident is a creative way of making a "broad point".
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All-In [48807]
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They put CT1988 on speed dial...
Jul 6, 2020, 4:33 PM
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they really ought to hire him to write damage control theories. He's pretty decent.
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Legend [18003]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Legend [18003]
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how dumb was he!?***
Jul 6, 2020, 4:55 PM
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Lot o points [155648]
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IT TOOK HIM AN HOWER TO WATCH 60 MINETS.***
Jul 6, 2020, 5:02 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Re: IT TOOK HIM AN HOWER TO WATCH 60 MINETS.***
Jul 6, 2020, 5:08 PM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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The hardworking men and women trying to make an honest
Jul 6, 2020, 3:35 PM
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living as garage door knotters.
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Lot o points [155648]
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POTD***
Jul 6, 2020, 4:40 PM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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serious answer.
Jul 6, 2020, 3:36 PM
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Maybe they would apologize to ACTUAL victims of racism/hate crimes?
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All-In [26968]
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How were those people victimized in this scenario?***
Jul 6, 2020, 3:38 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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It’s the “racism” Novocain...
Jul 6, 2020, 3:40 PM
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When EVERYTHING is “racist” people become tone deaf to actual racism
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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If false accusations have no victims, the enemy of our
Jul 6, 2020, 4:40 PM
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souls has no destructive influence in our world. Some people here are not thinking this through.
There is no such thing as a false accusation. Everyone is guilty of everything. When indignation is directed at an action that didn't take place, everyone is being accused of everyone else's guilt. There is justification for us dividing ourselves into unmitigated civll war: the necessary guilt resides in every person. The choice is ours. When the enemy points the finger to divide us, and to take us into his hell, he doesn't have to fabricate guilt. He comes with the truth. A fabricated occurrence works extra good.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I agree....
Jul 6, 2020, 4:57 PM
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It blurs truth.
I don’t know Bubba Wallace, but in this instance, I feel like he was reacting to what he perceived. Everybody is hypersensitive in this climate. The problem was the public rush to judgment.
The more important issue is the intentional false accusations. Which is also too commonplace. And rarely are accusers feet held to the fire for disinformation. Falsehood is completely okay if it is a means to a desired end.
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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What I know about nascar you can put in a thimble, but
Jul 6, 2020, 9:24 PM
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I lived in Western NC for several years and it was not unusual to know people who had worked in those garages in one capacity or another. The consistent theme was that all those people know each other really well. They are with each other all the time. Travel busses are parked side by side. It's almost like a traveling circus. Pack up the show, move to the next place, that's home for a week.
In that environment, I cannot imagine not simply walking into the other garages - they are all right there - and saying "What the eff?" In 10 minutes it would have been over. The way it was handled showed disrespect to people who are friends and supporters
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110%er [5648]
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All-In [34533]
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common sense and the few fans of Noosecar***
Jul 6, 2020, 3:37 PM
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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why there always got to be victims?***
Jul 6, 2020, 3:37 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I agree with the point of your rhetorical question.
Jul 6, 2020, 3:39 PM
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I fail to see how this is anything but a positive story.
NASCAR find something...it results in an outpouring of support and all-around good feelings. Then, after all, it was determined that no crime was committed, so that's good too! Win-win!
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All-In [48807]
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But you aren't looking for a bad guy...
Jul 6, 2020, 3:47 PM
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once the bad guy was found not to be a racist who had left a noose in the garage, it was incumbent on everyone who is offended by an outpouring of support for a black driver to find a way to make the black driver and NASCAR the bad guys.
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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You are accused of sleeping with the 15 year old girl
Jul 6, 2020, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to I agree with the point of your rhetorical question. ] |
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who lives next door. The neighborhood is all up in arms. You are white, the girl is black. Almost everyone turns against you, and that's the people you know, not counting all those who now know the publicized story. A few people do question the validity of the story. The blacks in the neighborhood then accuse those people of being racist. Within a week the neighborhood is a wreck.
The detectives do an A-1 job, and in the end the truth comes out. The girl told the story to a friend, probably for some reason that only adolescents really understand, and when that friend told it and the story blew up, the alleged victim was afraid to recant. The story took on its own life. The detectives were able to isolate the genesis of the story and give everyone involved the safety from which to tell the truth. It was a made up story, one not maliciously started.
True story. Happened to the guy next door to me, the young girl lived on the other side of him. I was one of the ones who questioned the validity of the story. When we moved away five years later there were people who would not speak to me, or to my neighbor.
In your words, it was a win-win. An accusation was made, the result of which was just truth coming out. Win-win, right?
I do not always agree with your posts, but up to this point they did have rationality. When the Enemy lives out his identity of The Accuser, its all win-win, right? Have you thought this one through?
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All-In [40872]
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Many years ago I had a girl accuse me of being baby daddy
Jul 6, 2020, 4:04 PM
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I had never even been in a room alone with the girl and had barely ever even talked to her. There was no interest at all. I have no clue why she said it, but it certainly caused me some problems.
What if I took a DNA test to proved that I wasn't the daddy? People would still assume that I slept with her. She came clean and it died, but it could have been a whole lot worse for me. It was my wife's brother's girlfriend.
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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The notion that a false accusation has no victims is just
Jul 6, 2020, 4:26 PM
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plain stupid. It harms everyone, actually. No one escapes the damage of a Jussie Smollett.
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Legend [18003]
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Is that what you think happened here?
Jul 6, 2020, 4:29 PM
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That the accusation was purposefully false? Who is the Jussie Smollett of this situation?
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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Nice try. The subject is false accusation. Smollett is
Jul 6, 2020, 4:44 PM
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a good example of one. So is Wallace's. Take your pick.
In this case, I am not talking about Wallace personally, which is why I used another example. There are differences and similarities between the two examples, but equating the two is not the point. Every false accusation does its damage.
Are you actually saying false allegations have no victims?
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Legend [18003]
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There is a difference between misunderstandings
Jul 6, 2020, 4:54 PM
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and false allegations. Your example is one of an intentional false allegation (as is bringing up Smollett) and that's different than what happened with this noose/garage pull.
I think we can agree there are differences.
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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The Wallace team is not pure snow on this one.
Jul 6, 2020, 5:09 PM
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The truth was there for anyone who wanted to see it, and he was pretty vocal in the days after. Heck, guys on the internet had it scoped out the very next day. They instead took the high profile route because it was there to take.
I'm not upset at Wallace about it. Sure, its not like Smollett, and if there were not a thread about it I wouldn't have even thought about it, let alone talk about it. But if the subject is victims of false accusations, yes, this one fits right in there.
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Legend [18003]
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They responded based on what NASCAR told them, right?
Jul 6, 2020, 5:47 PM
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and I think we can forgive them if they didn't listen to "guys on the internet."
Who is the victim in this case? The culture around NASCAR? An individual? Who should the focus of 'victimhood' be on in this misunderstanding?
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Lot o points [155648]
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I'm pretty much over this one, but let's examine....
Jul 6, 2020, 6:59 PM
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Can we agree that when it WAS believed to be a real, ill-intentioned noose, absolutely everyone with the slightest bit of common sense would have assumed it was left by a white male? I mean, sure, there were other possibilities but a rookie FBI profiler on their first day would have nailed that assumption.
Taking it a step further, given the sport in which the event centered around, most would have probably presumed a white, Southern male. Now, when one's referring to white, southern NASCAR fans, which candidate generally gets more of their support?
So just connecting the dots, IF this thing had happened, most would have assumed it was a white male Trump supporter. This doesn't even require guesswork on a local level, as there were many on this board practically dancing in the aisles after making that presumption, prior to it being revealed as false.
So if we agree on all that, and I hope we do, is there really any more or less aspersions being cast on a fairly large group of people than when Smollett did it (in his case, white northern Trump supporters).
Taking it a step further, is there really any more or less aspersions being cast on a group than when some white lady commits a crime and falsely files it in a police report as being committed by a nameless, faceless black man (not just a one-off Susan Smith occurrence)?
The bottom line is that even if the intentions were pure, it was pretty ethically rotten of Wallace to not even issue a "my bad" after putting a fairly large group of people in a really negative light.
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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All those guys on all those teams know each other really,
Jul 6, 2020, 9:10 PM
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really well. All Wallace had to do was walk in there - its like walking into your next door neighbor's garage - and say, "Hey guys, what the hell is going on", and in 10 minutes it would have been over. But they went the other way. And they can't blame nascar: of course nascar had to blow it up. When they went upstairs with the story rather than first to the people who were their friends, they were making an accusation on no known facts. I have put myself in that situation as best I can, and I can't come up with a scenario where I don't walk next door and straighten it out. The answer was right in front of them the entire time.
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All-In [48807]
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From what we know it’s not really his bad...
Jul 7, 2020, 12:32 AM
[ in reply to I'm pretty much over this one, but let's examine.... ] |
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From what we actually know it’s not anyone’s. And you had to paraphrase “if you give a mouse a cookie” to find your victim. Which turns out to be 30% of the US population?
If you show America a noose in Bubba Wallace’s garage, they’ll assume it was left there by a white guy, if it was left by a white guy who would leave a noose, he was probably a Trump supporter...
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Lot o points [155648]
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No plagiarism intended, deweather is just a helluva
Jul 7, 2020, 12:51 AM
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Logic-picker so I had to lay the breadcrumbs out Columbo-style to make sure there were no gaps.
And cmon..,”it’s not anyone’s”? If I see a box in the post office that looks like a bomb and have the bomb squad shut the place down only to find it’s grandmas cookies in a care package, I’m going to have the common courtesy to say “my mistake” to everyone in earshot for their inconvenience even though I did nothing wrong. A member of his team reported it...he’s the face of the team. I would have gained so much more respect for him if he’d actually said “sorry folks, honest mistake, I guess we are all a little tightly wound these days” instead of doubling down and trying to cling to a way to be an aggrieved party in all this.
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All-In [48807]
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I genuinely missed the double down and cling
Jul 7, 2020, 2:46 PM
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and honestly, if you see a package that "looks like a bomb" then you would be smart to call the police, and if you call the police, they are going to bring in the bomb squad if it looks like a bomb, and if the call in the bomb squad they are going to shut the place down, and if they shut place down, people are going to be inconvenienced, and if people are inconvenienced they are going to want to know who to blame, and if they find out there was a package that looked like a bomb, they are going to want a glass of milk to go with it.
I don't see how, in either scenario, you owe anyone an apology unlike the ####### mouse who completely ruined that poor kids house.
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All-In [26968]
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I think I'm starting to see what people are upset about...
Jul 7, 2020, 5:55 AM
[ in reply to I'm pretty much over this one, but let's examine.... ] |
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From what I'm reading in this portion of the thread, it appears as if perhaps some supporters of President Trump, maybe a significant number, and maybe the President himself, viewed a noose hanging in a garage as some sort of "strike" against their "team". So it's almost like "they" were being accused.
I guess I mentally comprehend that, but I can't empathize. Even if it were a nefarious act, why would anyone think less of anyone except the specific individual who hung the noose?
We have to get off this team sport mentality, man.
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Legend [15730]
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^ Getting picked last for the recess kick-ball game.***
Jul 7, 2020, 2:52 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Long walk to get to Trump and his supporters as victims
Jul 7, 2020, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to I'm pretty much over this one, but let's examine.... ] |
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I think most would assume it was a racist white southern male who was upset that Bubba Wallace successfully had NASCAR remove the confederate flag from their events and wanted to scare him by putting a noose in the garage. That's the assumption/context that informed whichever person on Wallace's team that saw the noose and reported it to NASCAR who then reported it to the FBI after which Bubba was informed of its existence. He never saw the noose but only responded to what he was told. Thankfully, that's not what happened and it was all a misunderstanding. There was no intentional attack on any individual or group of individuals and to try and create a logical pathway to having 30%-40% of the population as a victim (while, interestingly in defense, set up that they are likely to be the ones to commit a racist act?) seems deliberate in trying to feel a perceived persecution. I buy that one can feel that way, but I don't agree with it in this situation.
Smollett and the white lady examples had intent and were active participants in their cases, Bubba Wallace just responded to a situation that was reported to him (same as with the general public) so they are clearly different scenarios and aren't comparable.
In looking up Bubba's response to finding out it was a misunderstanding he was still upset with it being a "noose" pull-down, but did also say:
"It's been an emotional few days. First off, I want to say how relieved I am that the investigation revealed that this wasn't what we feared it was. I want to thank my team, NASCAR and the FBI for acting swiftly and treating this as a real threat," Wallace wrote. "I think we'll gladly take a little embarrassment over what the alternatives could have been. Make no mistake, though some will try, this should not detract from the show of unity we had on Monday, and the progress we've made as a sport to be a more welcoming environment for all."
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Hall of Famer [24453]
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No, I dont give them a pass on that. I didn't say they
Jul 6, 2020, 9:05 PM
[ in reply to They responded based on what NASCAR told them, right? ] |
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should "believe guys on the internet", and you know I didn't say that. Don't stoop to quibbling. But yes, if even guys on the internet can find a photograph of the pull rope hanging there months before the Wallace team was anywhere around, yes, Wallace should have been one of the first to call the thing off. But he didn't. He doubled down on it, making inflammatory comments after it was known there was nothing do it.
Again, I'm not on him about any of that. All his business. But if the subject is false accusations, yes, they jumped on a chance to make one. No other way to see it.
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All-In [26968]
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All-In [26968]
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That is a completely different scenario.
Jul 6, 2020, 6:43 PM
[ in reply to You are accused of sleeping with the 15 year old girl ] |
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No one was accused of anything in this NASCAR story. Not a single person. If someone had, then that person would obviously be a victim.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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lets say someone accuses you of rape
Jul 6, 2020, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to I agree with the point of your rhetorical question. ] |
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weeks go by and everyone calls you a rapist. Shuns you, calls you every name in the book. The person that called you a rapist piles on too.
Turns out, meh, there's evidence you weren't a rapist.
Great. you have that label. Some people may never hear the news you aren't a rapist.
Wouldn't you think it would benefit EVERYONE, including you, that the person who falsely accused you, apologize?
I know I would. Its the right thing to do.
To be honest, I'm totally shocked he hasn't.
And before you say, there was no ONE person accused. No, but in the public eye, by proxy, the entire "redneck" fan base was accused. You being you, i'm sure you pose another question and not accept that premise so this was a total waste of time even writing this.
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All-In [26968]
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If "the public" accused an entire fan base...
Jul 6, 2020, 6:45 PM
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Then that's a ridiculous action on the part of this nebulous "public," and it's not Wallace's responsibility.
I also don't think this happened.
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All-In [48807]
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110%er [8889]
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Re: If NASCAR/Bubba Wallace
Jul 6, 2020, 5:06 PM
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America, all of it
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110%er [5648]
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Bubba Wallace is pretending to be black
Jul 6, 2020, 6:11 PM
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He's really white. He's pulling a Rachel Dolezal.
Check it out.
I mean think about it...there cannot possibly be a black guy named Bubba racing nascar!
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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The truth was victim number 1.
Jul 7, 2020, 9:54 AM
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Not that it matters anymore in today's rhetoric driven society but the truth has value to some of us.
12-15 FBI agents to investigate a hoax?
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All-In [26968]
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Don't we know the truth?
Jul 7, 2020, 2:09 PM
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Looks like truth won out, did it not? How would "truth" then be a victim?
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All-In [34100]
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Re: The truth was victim number 1.
Jul 7, 2020, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to The truth was victim number 1. ] |
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Glad to hear that the truth matters to you now. Looking forward to seeing which information sources you rely on now.
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Legend [18003]
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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That is was put there to make a political statement to...
Jul 14, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Nascar's one black driver.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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it was a noose though.
Jul 7, 2020, 5:10 PM
[ in reply to The truth was victim number 1. ] |
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and given what was going on, it wasn't a long putt to suspect that it may have just been put there. Could someone other than the FBI have investigated? yes, but nascar was probably better to have someone from the outside come in ...for the very fact that it was found to be a mistake. At least in the sense that it wasn't put there to taunt Wallace and his team. So the TRUTH actually won in this case
who lost? the tax papers pocket books that paid for those FBIs to investigate. Any butt hurt racist that was silently saying "hell yeah!" when the news first broke.
and apparnetly Trump since he's still tweeting about it.
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