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CU Medallion [64519]
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For me, the Brownell retention debate boils down to this...
Mar 13, 2017, 7:15 PM
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NC State just fired a coach whose teams made four NCAA Tournament appearance over the last six years.
Conversely, Brad Brownell and his teams have missed the NCAA Tournament six consecutive years yet Brownell thinks the program is in a good place and on solid footing.
If the administration is committed to the success of Clemson basketball, a change in leadership is absolutely necessary.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I don't see how a reasonable argument could be made
Mar 13, 2017, 7:24 PM
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to the contrary. It would be absurd to argue that Brownell has made any progress whatsoever in terms of winning over a seven year span, and it would be absurd to argue that six years is not a reasonable time over which to expect clear, significant, measurable improvement from where we were in his second year.
It bottles the mind. I feel like we are being pacified by some of Trump or Obama's political spin doctors. It is utter nonsense.
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Commissioner [982]
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Re: I don't see how a reasonable argument could be made
Mar 13, 2017, 7:27 PM
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He should be gone. How will he recruit with the time remaining on his contract?
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All-In [27366]
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Letterman [282]
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i beg to disagree.
Mar 13, 2017, 7:30 PM
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Can you find someone better. If you can, make a change. If not, you are stuck for another year. It's that simple at this point. That's what they are wrestling with.
Someone who will come to Clemson, who can win at this level and someone will stay. Clemson and DRad do not have a good record here.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Don't know till you start looking
Mar 13, 2017, 7:59 PM
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So we fire the guy, what's the worse that could happen? Hire another bad coach who fails to make the NCAA tournament 6 years in a row???
Message was edited by: ClemsonRT®
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CU Guru [1712]
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Re: i beg to disagree.
Mar 13, 2017, 8:04 PM
[ in reply to i beg to disagree. ] |
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What difference do you think 1 year will make?
If you can't find another coach this year, then what would make you think that next year will provide a better group of options?
That is a lame excuse to me.
If we're really committed in finding a new coach, we will.
There will almost always be unknowns when you make a change, but at least you've made the change.
You have at least sent a message that you will NOT accept mediocrity.
By allowing this crap to continue, it sends a message that we are just happy.
If DRad chooses to keep him and Brownell ends having the kind of success that duke got from their coach, then great. I'll congratulate and thank him for his great decision.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: i beg to disagree.
Mar 13, 2017, 8:11 PM
[ in reply to i beg to disagree. ] |
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Bad logic!
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Orange Blooded [2939]
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There are 65 coaches who are better that we know of right now!
Mar 14, 2017, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to i beg to disagree. ] |
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Interview several and hire one
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All-Pro [651]
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If we can do no better than this
Mar 14, 2017, 10:27 PM
[ in reply to i beg to disagree. ] |
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Then lets just drop the sport or save money and have a volunteer coaching staff. I'm sure there are many junior league coaching dads who can lead us to missing the tournament every year.
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Legend [16121]
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Comparing us to NCSU in BBall is like comparing NCSU to
Mar 13, 2017, 7:35 PM
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us in Football...Utterly incomparable
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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Re: Comparing us to NCSU in BBall is like comparing NCSU to
Mar 13, 2017, 7:51 PM
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That is referred to as a losers mentality. No thanks.
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All-In [28213]
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ah,
Mar 13, 2017, 7:56 PM
[ in reply to Comparing us to NCSU in BBall is like comparing NCSU to ] |
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but you miss the point shack my man. the reality is that there really has been no progress and it is a stagnant program. you don't make changes for changes sake. you make changes out of necessity. in order for clemson to be competitive in the acc and get a nod to the tourney, we MUST not accept 7 yrs of futility. a change is necessary. if va tech and miami can get a bid to dance, then we sure as #### better do the same. we don't have to be carolina or dook or lewisville, but we better be prepared to compete for that bid. and sadly, we are not....
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1st Rounder [646]
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Legend [19567]
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Two Sweet Sixteens in six years
Mar 13, 2017, 8:08 PM
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is not irrelevant
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All-In [28213]
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Re: Two Sweet Sixteens in six years
Mar 13, 2017, 8:10 PM
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and 4 trips to tourney - pretty relevant
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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NCSU hasn't been the same since they left Reynolds Coliseum
Mar 13, 2017, 9:10 PM
[ in reply to not exactly ] |
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they went from a tough place to play with identity and character to a professional, sterile and lackluster environment. It would be like Duke leaving Cameron and moving to the Greensboro Coliseum.
Same thing happened to Maryland after they left Cole Field House.
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Orange Blooded [3823]
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Re: NCSU hasn't been the same since they left Reynolds Coliseum
Mar 14, 2017, 12:44 AM
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Reynolds Coliseum, Cole Field House and Carmichael Auditorium were some great old ACC venues indeed.
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Varsity [231]
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we've been similar since Valvano left
Mar 13, 2017, 8:28 PM
[ in reply to Comparing us to NCSU in BBall is like comparing NCSU to ] |
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in 27 years post-Valvano, NC State's winning percentage is 54.8% , Clemson's is 55%. They've been to 10 tourneys making sweet 16 3 times, we've been to 7 making sweet 16 once. If you go back 1 more year, Valvano missed tourney and Ellis went to sweet 16.
So before Mark Gottfried, they had only been to the tourney 6 times in the previous 22 years. He makes the tourney his first 4 years, with sweet 16 twice, and gets fired after missing twice. I think the OP made a valid point.
On the other hand, NC State had a ton of success before then, so their expectations are higher, sorta like with Clemson football after Ford. They've been elite before and are still hoping to find their Dabo to get them there again, so I get your argument too.
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Legend [19567]
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They also have Dook and the holes next door
Mar 13, 2017, 8:43 PM
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They've run off successful coaches in Sendek and Gottfried. Hired two bad ones in Robinson and Lowe.
But at least they have the desire to try to compete with their blue blood neighbors. We're basically down to being a preseason 14-15 pick next season. Us and BC. When is that not enough?
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: For me, the Brownell retention debate boils down to this...
Mar 13, 2017, 8:10 PM
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I agree with your logic. It's hard to understand why Drad wants to keep Brownell despite his lack of success. Ga Tech has made a change. NC State is making a change . We are going to the bottom of the ACC if we dont.
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All-In [28213]
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Re: For me, the Brownell retention debate boils down to this...
Mar 13, 2017, 8:11 PM
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you again??
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110%er [6468]
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Re: For me, the Brownell retention debate boils down to this...
Mar 14, 2017, 12:40 AM
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I think the answer lies in your last sentence. Admin. wants to win but not committed to spend the money to do so.
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CU Guru [1134]
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Look at NC State hires since they fired Chuck Armato and
Mar 14, 2017, 6:02 AM
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Herb Sendak. Two decent coaches, replaced by lesser ones. This is the program you want to emulate? It has been one fail after another. I can think of reasons to can Brad, but just because State did is not one of them.
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CU Medallion [64519]
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I think you're missing the point***
Mar 14, 2017, 7:44 AM
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All-Pro [651]
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