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Commissioner [943]
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CU Medallion [51520]
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And Dabo then takes some of his salary to pay his assistants
Mar 16, 2015, 11:12 AM
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How about the contribution he makes to his foundation for cancer research, Clemson Life and other programs? Somehow that didn't get a mention.
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All-In [30757]
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irrelevant. . what is truly never mentioned is the financial benefits
Mar 16, 2015, 11:14 AM
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These kids do get.
How much did hbo make last year ? I wonder how much of that Oliver got? Probably whatever he agreed to and not a soybean more.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: irrelevant. . what is truly never mentioned is the financial benefits
Mar 16, 2015, 11:22 AM
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The point is that professionals get paid , in an agreement with their chosen employer.
Student-athletes are not employees of the universities they attend . End of argument.
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All-In [30757]
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that is the argument that they are trying to make
Mar 16, 2015, 11:33 AM
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That they are employees Because the university makes money off thier services.
i can not argue that money is made off the service of collegiate athletes. That is an undeniable fact.
The proponents can not argue that these students are compensated. That is also an undeniable fact.
What I can argue is that they are sufficiently compensated in a free market economy and no additional compensation is required.
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110%er [7010]
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As that great philosopher Forrest Gump declared:
Mar 16, 2015, 11:40 AM
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"Stupid is as Stupid Does"
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Varsity [212]
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Re: that is the argument that they are trying to make
Mar 16, 2015, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to that is the argument that they are trying to make ] |
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I'm with you until your last sentence, which makes no sense to me. How is it a free market?
The NCAA operates effectively as a cartel. There are no parallels in the business world to my knowledge. The organization profits enormously off of labor it does not pay. That relationship is legally protected--but it is not a free market.
If you instituted a free market tomorrow, there would be a cash bonanza for tons of players. We know this from all the cash scandals that go on--Manziel and Gurley autograph signings, memorabilia like OSU, donation/access with Nevin Shapiro. That is a sign of a restricted market.
I think a reasonable free market compromise can be found. Personally, I like the idea of allowing players a portion of memorabilia revenue. Guarantee each athlete in revenue sports a base compensation, nothing huge, several thousand per season say. Maybe 10k. Work out a proportion of memorabilia and ad sales. But nothing extravagant or hugely life-changing.
Allow the stars who can to pursue whatever endorsements or autograph stuff they want on their own in addition to the equal portion they get from the university-licensed stuff. That guarantees everyone something but allows the superstars to profit from their unique talent and drive.
However, I think a trust structure would be a huge benefit to all parties. Look what happens to the money pros get. Wasted, usually. College students are even less mature.
Let the money build up interest in a trust and work out a distribution structure with smaller payments over time. Offer mandatory classes and training on basic money management and personal finance to go with it.
I'd call tht a big step in the right direction. If some kind of compromise does not happen, sudden change is liable to come from the courts. Major destabilization could occur. No way to predict, really.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: that is the argument that they are trying to make
Mar 16, 2015, 12:51 PM
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It is a free market because the players are allowed to pursue other options. It is the NFLs fault that college is currently the only true option for players to prepare for the NFL. Universities have the right to deny anyone from attending the University. If players want revenue splitting then don't apply for acceptance to a University where that is not possible.
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All-In [30757]
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I would argue that the student athletes, like
Mar 16, 2015, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: that is the argument that they are trying to make ] |
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All students have a say in which institution they choose. They can choose which is more beneficial to themselves and make decision. Our they can choose to skip college all together If they offers do not meet thier requirements.
I did not use Clemson 's presidents income nor the United States' army budget when accepting my rotc scholarship. I'm sure the us army and colonel claudefelter made far more money than what I got offered in my scholarship.
I had the choice to take my services and my rotc scholarship to Clemson or any other school. Free market.
college is not a typical business model.
Where else do you pay some one a crap ton of money to beat you up, physically, economically, emotionally?
Any rate you didn't seem to follow me. These kids are compensated. They receive benefits including financial.
The ncaa does not have a cartel, no matter how much money they make. They are institutions of higher learning. We use money as the catalyst to turn them into other things.
These stars as you say couldn't sell bubble gum if they were not offered a chance by the university.
The only compromise the ncaa needs to make is guaranteeing these kids will be given 4 years to get thier degree As long as they continue to meet school eligibility requirements.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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who's john oliver?***
Mar 16, 2015, 11:41 AM
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Legend [17216]
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A much less entertaining derivative of a John Stewart.
Mar 16, 2015, 11:47 AM
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Occasionally funny but mostly annoying - hanging on to an dated entertainment genre of trying to find humor and entertainment content in news. Stewart and Colbert played rode this pony for millions.
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110%er [8091]
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Legend [17216]
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JO is allegedly a comedian - no requirements to be factual.
Mar 16, 2015, 11:42 AM
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But is this day and age the distinction between news and entertainment is pretty much a blur.
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Starter [358]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 11:44 AM
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John Oliver needs to keep his comedy about something he actually knows a little about. Maybe English football and cricket. He obviously reads what his writers embellish and doesn't truly understand the ramifications of making college athletics a pay for play business. In fact, if anyone takes John Oliver seriously they do not understand a comedy routine.
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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I agree ^^^^^***
Mar 16, 2015, 12:45 PM
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110%er [7010]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 11:48 AM
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Perfessinal Athlickics is the only perfissen where your first check is based on what a bunch of prognotikaters think you might be able to do, and not on how you axually purrform.
Every job I ever had, I started at a base salary, and worked myself up. Many start in the upper third of the salary range, and have to have an agent to speak for them to get a payraise...
amiIdoingthisright?
One of the days, the well will run dry on a lot of NFL teams.
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110%er [7010]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 11:49 AM
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Perfessinal Athlickics is the only perfissen where your first check is based on what a bunch of prognotikaters think you might be able to do, and not on how you axually purrform.
Every job I ever had, I started at a base salary, and worked myself up. Many start in the upper third of the salary range, and have to have an agent to speak for them to get a payraise...
amiIdoingthisright?
One of these days, the well will run dry on a lot of NFL teams.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 12:35 PM
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So many untruths here.
1. You sign a FOUR year scholarship. They cant take your scholarship for you getting hurt, so thats just utter horsecrap. Ive actually seen players that werent hurt "pretend" to be hurt because they didnt want to play yet wanted to keep their scholarship.
2. The guy in the video that said he went to bed hungry is so full of crap it isnt even funny. Athletes have MEAL PLANS, where its all paid for. Even at little ole rinky dink GARDNER WEBB, the cafeteria was open, you just had to eat whatever they had, which honestly was pretty dang good. (We didnt even have seperate cafeterias for athletes either) So Mr. I went to bed hungry, you may have, but thats because you didnt want the food provided for you, but it WAS provided. On away trips, everything. We would get 7 dollars on away trips per meal whenever we stopped for away games, when we werent eating at GOLDEN CORRAL. Yes, Golden Corral. Im so tired of eating there from college I wont eat there today. But Mr. Hungry sleep went to bed hungry? Yeah right. I played with "entitled" guys that thought they had it rough because they couldnt eat steak every night. Seriously. Im tired of this stupid issue because the people talking about it know what the hell theyre talking about or theyre full of crap.
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 12:56 PM
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They ARE getting paid... with scholarships. (those who are talented enough to earn them.) They're getting a free ride and free room and board to study anything they want at a major university while playing the game they love. I agree with Dabo. As usual.
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110%er [9638]
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I don't watch JO, but it is pretty easy to take shots at
Mar 16, 2015, 1:14 PM
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someone who you happen to disagree with from your cable studio. It's even easier (and very effective) to tie it to a juvenile hash tag, knowing that the ignorant masses will make it "trend".
I know JO's show is a rip-off of The Daily Show. Does he have guests (like Jon Stewart does)?
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Devotee [322]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 1:24 PM
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Swinney wouldn't leave if they did pay players. He would be giving up a large salary. He would adjust and stay put.
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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One thing gets overlooked with this topic...
Mar 16, 2015, 1:31 PM
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Dabo was a student athlete from a poor household! He also took FULL advantage of the system by getting his degree and a masters while working as a GA and then asst coach at Alabama. Ive heard CDS say that he would not have been able to get his degree without football.
Ive always said, if there was a big enough need for another system, there would be one.... theres not.
I am somewhat surprised there isnt a minor league football league for players too young to enter the draft, but that to me tells me there is not a big enough calling for "paying players" in anything but tuition, room, meals, training, tutors, etc.
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110%er [5495]
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Re: One thing gets overlooked with this topic...
Mar 16, 2015, 1:45 PM
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This argument can be taken down to the high school level also. These same athletes perform on Friday and Saturday and people pay to attend those games also, so the argument goes that they are providing revenue for their respective high schools. Hate that the students from Northwestern started this da&n mess. I used to have season tickets to Northwestern but will not renew and as far as I am concerned that program can tank.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: One thing gets overlooked with this topic...
Mar 16, 2015, 2:00 PM
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What mess? This is something that should be addressed. This is a multi-billion dollar industry and the driving force behind the revenue isn't paid.
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110%er [6095]
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nobody is making them play
Mar 16, 2015, 8:41 PM
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plenty of people would play for free
Create a minor league system. Anybody that wants to get paid, go play in the minor league.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: nobody is making them play
Mar 16, 2015, 9:37 PM
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College football is the only way to get into the NFL. I think it's fair to perhaps give the players a little spending money since they're not able to get jobs and devote such a great amount of time to the program. I'm not sure why people are so upset at the idea of players having a little bit of money for living expenses when everyone else involved is cashing in.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 2:27 PM
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That definitely clarifies the quote, thanks. It certainly clears things up to with what Dabo was going for - not calling paying players an "entitlement", but that we shouldn't consider the free education to be worth nothing.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 6:33 PM
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Nice try but that was coot dumb
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 6:48 PM
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Is Oliver a Coot ? I know Steven Colbert is .
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Oculus Spirit [90693]
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don't forget JO mentioned UNC's Swahili classes!
Mar 16, 2015, 8:34 PM
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GoTiGERS!
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110%er [6095]
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we know Clemson Football is relevant again
Mar 16, 2015, 9:50 PM
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When the media starts taking potshots at our coach. They made fun of Danny as well.
Keep up the good work coach
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110%er [8091]
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Re: Dabo is right. We don't pay amateurs.
Mar 16, 2015, 10:25 PM
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Coaches are not amateurs and can thus be paid.
If people think college coaches make too much, the answer is NOT to pay the players.
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CU Medallion [53698]
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I bet he is an FFRE guy.***
Mar 16, 2015, 10:31 PM
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 16, 2015, 11:58 PM
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Dabo's right about a lot.
There is a definite disconnect between how much coaches make, and how much college athletes aren't allowed to. It's called a "revenue generating sport" for a reason.
Anywhere else you generate revenue, you get compensation.
The problem is, NCAA athletics - especially football and college basketball - just sorta...growed. And kept on growing. They outgrew their humble "student-athlete" beginnings a long while back.
Nowawadays college football and college basketball serve the same echelon in American sports - since we're using a British analogy - that the English League Championship, English League One, and English League two - actually the Brits have not one but FIVE tiers of pro soccer teams - serve for the English Premier League.
Guys in the EPL, like the NFL, make millions. Guys in the Championship (the second tier of pro soccer) average about $200K in adjusted dollars. Guys in League One make about $100K, guys in League Two average about $50K. There are actually about 200 pro and semi-pro soccer teams in England - a nation of about 60 million people. They don't do college soccer.
That's about how things would probably shake out in the US, if college athletes were allowed to be paid. Considering that it's known several 5-star recuits - Albert Means, for example (and this was 15+ years ago) were on record getting paid $160K+ - it's not a big stretch to think in a lot of places college players are probably making that (or more) already...under the table.
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Asst Coach [702]
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please shut up already
Mar 17, 2015, 4:30 AM
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Unless you have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with this, please just shut up and quit spreading "your opinion". While youre entitled to it, it doesnt mean its worth a crap. Talk to a former athlete that doesn't have an ego problem or isnt a premadonna and theyll tell you that you wont go to bed hungry. Utter bullcrap. Everyone wants to look further up the ladder and say "that's not fair. Why do they have more?" Instead of looking down, and saying, Im so lucky to be where I am.....
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: please shut up already
Mar 17, 2015, 10:59 AM
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> Unless you have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with this,
> please just shut up and quit spreading "your
> opinion". While youre entitled to it, it doesnt mean
> its worth a crap. Talk to a former athlete that
> doesn't have an ego problem or isnt a premadonna and
> theyll tell you that you wont go to bed hungry.
> Utter bullcrap. Everyone wants to look further up
> p the ladder and say "that's not fair. Why do they
> have more?" Instead of looking down, and saying, Im
> so lucky to be where I am.....
Spreading one's opinion is a fairly accepted part of being American. Tell me to shut up and I'll smile in your face and call you a Nazi and a Fascist, mostly because people who feel they have the right to tell others to shut up and stop spreading their opinions are Nazis and Fascists. Ditto for those who condescendingly tell others to "humbly accept their place."
We fought wars over those rights, bunky. Actually we fought a couple of them against the British.
Refusing to allow others to share in the revenue they help create isn't exactly American either. We're a free-market economy...oddly enough, we fought the Brits for that right too. Ask the Brits how trying to tell us to shut up and drink their overpriced East India Company cartel tea turned out. I do find it vaguely amusing that a Brit is now castigating us for cartel behavior, but nevermind...in this case, alas, he's right.
Like I said, Dabo is right about a lot...but in this case, he is wrong...and he's legally wrong. The NCAA already essentially cut the so-called "Power 5" conferences loose to compensate athletes however much they wanted and the likes of NCAA Games stopped making their "NCAA Football" because they were profiting off the likeness of college athletes without compensation...which was setting them up, legally, for a motherhuge class-action lawsuit and they knew it. The NCAA kinda made their own bed on that regard when they were offering up numbered college football jerseys on their own site...for their own profit. There's a whole lot of very, very powerful law firms circling the issue right now because they know there's a settlement to be had that's potentially up there with the one that hit Big Tobacco awhile back.
When this monopolistic cartel - that is running afoul of a lot of fair-labor laws - gets hit, the whole house of cards could come falling down. The NCAA knows this, too, as do a lot of people who are following the issue.
Using Dabo as a scapegoat was wrongheaded and kinda...cheap, on Oliver's part, but Oliver isn't wrong about the fundamental issue. College athletes are being forbidden to profit off their own image and likeness, or share in the profits they help create. It's going to change because it has to. Hopefully the transition will be...orderly, as opposed to what could happen if this gets forced through in court. College football, as we know it, could go away in one serious hurry.
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All-In [30757]
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College athletics is not a cartel.
Mar 17, 2015, 1:28 PM
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No matter how much money is generated off it.
seems these athletes should have issues with the nfl. They lost so now are going after the next guy on the totem pole.
Soon highschools will be sued. You think it is about the big bad greedy machine taking advantage of kids. I think it is about self entitled kids looking for more.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: College athletics is not a cartel.
Mar 17, 2015, 2:28 PM
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Couldnt agree more.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: please shut up already
Mar 17, 2015, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: please shut up already ] |
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Haha, dont lecture me on the American Revolution. Ive probably forgot more about it than youll ever learn.
It would be an entirely different story if i showed up at your door and made you shut up. Telling someone to shut up unless they know what theyre talking about is part of the same protected right youre whining about. So its extremely hypocritical to sit there and say that I shouldnt tell you to shut up, when youre doing the same thing.
Youre entitled to your opinion. Thats correct. The problem is that most peoples opinion isnt worth a lick of crap. This country has too many people running around thinking theyre experts at everything. I can have an opinion on why Im sick, but telling a Doctor that I disagree with his diagnosis is idiotic, for the most part.
Your opinion is worth what your resume, experience, knowledge, education, and everything else say it is. By all means, if you have more insight to this than I do please let me know and Ill stand corrected. Ive gotten into arguments with people on here about Joey Batson, and somehow they think they know more than not only me, who has the same certification and degree Batson does, but all of the entire NSCA. Its just tiring listening to it. A bunch of people that never actually played football (not talking about you, I have no idea) somehow know everything there is to know about how hard a college football player has it. Its ridiculous.
I also feel that discrepancy doesnt always mean injustice. The fact that schools make a lot of money through TV contracts and such doesnt necessarily mean that athletes are getting crapped on.
Its like a millionaire American living within a couple miles of a poor Mexican child. The child isnt poor BECAUSE of the millionaire. Hes poor because of his countries economy/government.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night
Mar 17, 2015, 8:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo made in John Oliver and HBO last night ] |
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Your argument is not only irrelevant but it is just plain wrong. I love international soccer but you miss the point of this not being a professional sport at all. There is still college soccer in the US. Just like college football the athletes get to choose where to play. Sure the NFL has set up the NCAA to be a feeder system and the other options are not glamorous but they have an option. Universities are not using these kids to make money. The profit is a product of the system and the goal first and foremost for these institutions is to remain institutions of higher learning and not a sponsor for a professional sports team.
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