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All-TigerNet [11196]
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Curious as to the boards opinion of the NRA in all this
Feb 16, 2018, 12:17 PM
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I've been a member in the past, grew up hunting, own guns today. 20-30 years ago, NRA spent a lot of money on wildlife conservation, educating on safety/training/proper hunting methods, etc. and they seem to do very little of that today. They were the de facto gun lobby back then, too, but their prominence in politics today irks me. In particular, the propagandizing of the "the government is coming to take yer guns" theme.
Historically, it should be clear to anyone that this will never happen...Obama didn't do it, Clinton didn't do it, Carter didn't do it and you can go on an on...it will never happen. Instilling this fear to generate support and money to buy politicians is the exact opposite of democracy and is the very reason I haven't sent them a dime in over a decade. They seem like a cartoon version of the organization that they once were.
It would seem that for this country to have any meaningful and responsible debate on gun rights it will have to be without the NRA, they are simply not a valuable or reasonable actor in the conversation.
I'm prepared for the shelling that this post is about to take.
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All-In [28802]
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They're an interest group like other interest groups
Feb 16, 2018, 12:19 PM
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I don't think they're particularly unreasonable in defending their interests. Your post is basically just begging the question about what actually should be done. Part of that question begging is acting like policies the NRA opposes would've done anything to prevent a particular shooting from happening. People just assume that because the NRA is anti-gun regulation, there's some gun regulation they opposed that would've prevented violence. Their political influence is also vastly overrated compared to some other controversial organizations (Planned Parenthood, which has far more cultural power, immediately comes to mind).
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [49045]
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I think all interest groups end up as parodies of themselves
Feb 16, 2018, 12:21 PM
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Especially in our "give em an inch and they will take a mile" political system.
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All-In [28802]
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Maybe so
Feb 16, 2018, 12:34 PM
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But I don't really have a problem with interest groups battling things out amongst themselves.
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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As far as interest groups go, they are the Walmart, Target,
Feb 16, 2018, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to They're an interest group like other interest groups ] |
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and Amazon rolled into one of special interest groups, they're YUUUUUGE. No problem with a group supporting their interest....kinda what they are supposed to do. However, fomenting fear and doubt and distrust of government by bombarding us with "they're coming to take your guns!" seems irresponsible to me. I would like to see more reasonable groups take the lead on gun rights, but they just don't seem to exist in any meaningful capacity.
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All-In [28802]
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This seems overblown to me***
Feb 16, 2018, 12:37 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I quit donating to them because they pretty much spammed
Feb 16, 2018, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to As far as interest groups go, they are the Walmart, Target, ] |
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me for years after I gave them like $20 once. But I think it's a little naive to discount the idea that govt would ban private ownership of firearms. It obviously wouldn't happen all at once, but many politicians have expressed the desire to do so many times. It starts out at 'common sense' legislation, and then in 10 years all of the sudden we're wondering w tf happened to the way things used to be.
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All-In [49045]
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I dunno...
Feb 16, 2018, 12:52 PM
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maybe we could just evaluate proposals on their merit and do the same with the next one.
I mean, we still haven't done jack #### about Bump stocks and everyone thought those things were stupid ideas right after the Vegas shooting.
Oh but wait, it might have been government agents that want our guns!!
We are a nation of attack dogs who are too easily distracted by shiny objects.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Didn't the NRA come out against bump stocks?
Feb 16, 2018, 1:08 PM
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I never read anything in support of them.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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The thing about bump stocks, especially in the context of
Feb 16, 2018, 1:38 PM
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the Las Vegas shooter, is that had he a night scope, he could have killed more people, quicker.
Bump stocks are useless.
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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That is certainly the fear they promote, the imagery of
Feb 16, 2018, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to I quit donating to them because they pretty much spammed ] |
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the "slippery slope". But I don't buy it. If our goal as a country is to have less gun violence (yes I know on the whole gun violence has decreased over the last 30 years, but mass shootings have dramatically increased), I like the road map analogy better. We're trying to get to a place and the current road doesn't seem to be getting us there, so let's take a detour. If that road doesn't get us closer, let's rethink then.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I don't think it's an unwarranted concern though, there's
Feb 16, 2018, 1:18 PM
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plenty of evidence elsewhere of mission creep and the slippery slope being very real.
As I get older I do ponder the wiseness of having something like an AR-15 available at Walmart for anyone who can pass a 5 minute background check. However, I also know that I can get pretty much anything I want, whether legal or illegal elsewhere if I really want it.
I could agree with you on stronger background checks IF AND WHEN we start enforcing what's on the books effectively. Once there's evidence of that, we can continue the conversation on further laws. The past couple of shootings seem to be indicative of the system more or less failing.
I'll also say this, my wife works in mental health with the real crazy peeps and extremely low IQ individuals....These people breed like rabbits. You'll have a schizophrenic with 7, 8, even 10 children out there wandering around in the world. That's a recipe for disaster in a civilized society. And if they get out of the facility, there's no man hunt, they more or less just checked out until they break into somebodies house or something and get caught. I have no idea what you do about it, but I anticipate it will be an ever growing problem society has to face.
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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Agreed on lack of enforcement under the current
Feb 16, 2018, 1:42 PM
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system, it's pretty clear it doesn't work. Therein lies my dislike of the slippery slope argument in the case of gun rights. If we adhere to the analogy, we do nothing.
I think the real argument lies in our right to privacy and current search/seizure laws and they are big ol' gristly hunks of meat to chew on. In the instance of the kid this week, he legally purchased the weapon while the FBI knew about his ideas on this type of shooting, and they didn't prioritize the threat. How do you even classify every ominous threat that someone posts online? I don't think he should've been able to legally buy a gun, but I also think you run into some real privacy issues if you ruin somebody's life over something that might've just been mouthing off. I think that becomes a more appropriate slope argument than having a real and enforceable background check/registry type system.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I definitely don't like punishing people for stuff that they
Feb 16, 2018, 1:57 PM
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did in adolescence, but I think it's fair to question the mental state of anyone who posts a serious threat like that online. No sane person does that without knowledge of the potential repercussions IMO. Of course I don't take pictures of my food either, so I dunno w tf kids think is normal these days.
Do you make the legal age to buy a rifle 21? I dunno if it would help, it might. I wonder how determined this kid actually was, sounds like he sat on the rifle for awhile so it wasn't a spur of the moment thing. In the case of young shooters, I always go back to asking what kind of medication they were on. I truly feel like that's probably the root cause in most of these cases.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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I went to Palmetto State Armory a few weeks ago.
Feb 16, 2018, 1:44 PM
[ in reply to I don't think it's an unwarranted concern though, there's ] |
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I like guns, and own a few. But for the life of me, I can figure only one use this thing:
killing people.
The one they had in stock at the time, and it had an extended magazine (I think it held 40+ rounds). The barrel is about 10" long, so I can't imagine it being accurate past 200 feet or so. No one is hunting animals with that. Target practice is pointless with it. After that, there's only so much one can use it for.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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There are definitely gun nuts out there, every time I see
Feb 16, 2018, 1:51 PM
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somebody with one of those rifle stick figure families I kind of think to myself how fuggin' nuts is that guy? I remember when we had a rash of break ins in the neighborhood and one of my neighbors came up to talk to me about it. He informed me how if he saw anyone on his property, "He'd just start spraying". Dude had kids. I'm just like oooooookk buddy you do you plz don't shoot my house.
I think the reality is as the population grows, so does the amount of idiots and crazy people. We've incentivized the exact people that shouldn't breed to breed. Until you stop that, things only get worse.
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Heisman Winner [105561]
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Just go to PSA and tell'em you want to take a bunch of
Feb 16, 2018, 2:42 PM
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people..er TARGETS, efficiently.
They'll walk you right over to whats in that pic.
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All-In [35541]
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What Im more interested in is seeing something like this
Feb 16, 2018, 12:25 PM
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on the correct board
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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My bad.***
Feb 16, 2018, 12:33 PM
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All-In [38514]
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Most groups like this form for the right reasons
Feb 16, 2018, 12:48 PM
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but at some point grow to the point of becoming independent entities that serve their own purpose. This is largely true of unions too. They become large enough to set their own agenda as opposed to representing their membership.
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Heisman Winner [137921]
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Susan G. Komen, MADD, etc.***
Feb 16, 2018, 12:56 PM
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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110%er [7026]
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The whole NRA "funding" campaigns
Feb 16, 2018, 2:01 PM
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Is really just false. I think in 2012 the only donated a little over $1 million to campaigns.
They're power really lies in their membership and the number of people that are members.
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All-In [38514]
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And 50 million+ to PACs.***
Feb 16, 2018, 2:27 PM
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110%er [7026]
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Re: And 50 million+ to PACs.***
Feb 16, 2018, 2:29 PM
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I honestly didn't think about checking that number.. Good catch.
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All-In [28802]
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Oculus Spirit [83119]
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They don't represent gun owners any longer. They represent
Feb 16, 2018, 2:41 PM
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gun makers.
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Orange Blooded [3184]
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I like guns. I have guns for hunting and for sport
Feb 16, 2018, 2:43 PM
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Just never felt compelled to carry, much less buy a semi auto rifle anything heavier than a .22.
I don't get it.
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Oculus Spirit [97719]
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Still support them.
Feb 17, 2018, 11:03 AM
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But hunting, wildlife, and conservation organizations are nothing like they used to be. The NRA is right to concentrate only on guns now. Wildlife conservation has been taken over by liberals who have no interest in hunting whatsoever. My grandfather was once the chairman of the SC Wildlife Federation. Back in the 60's that organization supported hunters, wildlife, and gun rights, among other things. Today they're all about environmental preservation and mainly liberal causes. My father watched them decline in their core mission until he left, and that was in the late 1980's.
There are organizations that have held onto their core mission somewhat, like Ducks Unlimited. But the pressure is on full force to eliminate hunting and gun rights. Liberals have taken over many gun rights and hunting organizations placing all emphasis on habitat preservation over actual harvesting of animals, hunting, safety, and gun rights.
The NRA saw this happening years ago, as did my father, and they chose to stick to their guns, so to speak.
Message was edited by: Tiggity®
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