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Oculus Spirit [81026]
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Will everyone eventually have a police record?
Apr 16, 2015, 11:26 AM
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It seems that the least infraction can lead to having a lifetime police record.
I have a lifetime record for having an expired fire extinguisher on my boat. The fine was $47. And that was waived, because I showed the officer my new fire extinguisher the next time I saw him a few days later. It was written on a normal traffic ticket, with the "uniform traffic ticket" lined through and "DNR" written under it. Its labeled as a "crime", and as stated, because it was written by a DNR officer, it can never be expunged.
This kid in this story will go through life with a felony..for changing a computer background screen:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/middle-school-student-charged-with-cyber-crime-in-holiday/2224827
Granted, it was stupid thing to do, but is it worth being a felony?
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Oculus Spirit [79423]
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probably so, and that's the big picture these "just follow
Apr 16, 2015, 11:31 AM
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The law" types don't quite understand.....pretty much everything is a crime these days. Most people probably commit a felony a day and don't even know it. Thankfully, we have benevolent lawyers always willing to take our case, for a fee, of course. In fact, many of them are friends with the judges and what not so they can get you a great deal!
Our criminal justice system is just a money racket.
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Oculus Spirit [81026]
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I wish they'd just raise our taxes some and leave me the
Apr 16, 2015, 11:33 AM
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hell alone.
I'm really wondering if there is more to it than that though. Our government has hard on for tracking and knowing what we're all doing. I'm wondering if this is just an extension.
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Oculus Spirit [79423]
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control and money, that's what it's about
Apr 16, 2015, 11:36 AM
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That, and law enforcement trying to justify their jobs and budget.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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CU Guru [1527]
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Re: I wish they'd just raise our taxes some and leave me the
Apr 16, 2015, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to I wish they'd just raise our taxes some and leave me the ] |
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Makes you kind of laugh at the "freest country in the world" narrative that was collectively uttered by most every politician and public figure in the 1990s.
The degree of authority granted to school districts and local police departments is sickening.
As a true small government guy, the fact that most of my allies are okay with the status quo is troubling for sure. And of course, they always point the finger at Big Brother without acknowledging the more grassroots power abuse issues. In fact, they even endorse the latter. As if a militarized police force and zero tolerance policies prevent heathenism.
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All-In [28802]
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I'm not sure this particular event follows that narrative
Apr 16, 2015, 11:40 AM
[ in reply to probably so, and that's the big picture these "just follow ] |
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Watching a teacher type in their password so you can log into their account remotely and harass them isn't exactly a normal thing to do. I'm not sure a 14 year old should be charged with a felony for that, but they should probably be expelled and charged with something. We're not talking about speeding or driving without proper proof of insurance here.
While I agree that life has been over-legislated, there are also plenty of people who are consciously pushing the limits of petty laws until they end up getting caught doing something relatively serious. In fact, I'd think that's how most people get into a life of crime. I mean, if this kid didn't get caught stealing passwords from teachers and logging into the school's system to "play a prank," what do you think he'd have done next?
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [79423]
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Were you ever 14? That seems like a pretty petty thing
Apr 16, 2015, 12:00 PM
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compared to some of the crap I pulled at age 14. Expelled? Come on man, he watched the teacher type in their password. Hell, some of the teachers probably give them their freaking passwords. What do you want to charge them with and why? What good does it do to criminalize a 14 year old mischievous boy? I get not all young males are wild, and you certainly seem to fit into that category...but some of us are, and we shouldn't be made into criminals at a young age because of it. Give him a chance to learn his lesson, don't #### up his life over something so stupid. You're playing the "gateway" game, and it's not realistic at all. You seem to be implying that if he hadn't got caught doing this, maybe he'd shoot up the school next! Who knows!
This type of attitude is a big part of what's wrong with our society, nobody has any discretion because they don't give a #### until it directly affects them. It's that stupid "DO THE CRIME DO THE TIME" attitude, which people quickly lose once it happens to them and they see the true consequences.
He'll go through PTI and probably be fine, but guess what? No more second chances for him, and he's got a long way to go until maturity.
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All-In [28802]
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Sorry, I just don't think that's normal behavior
Apr 16, 2015, 12:20 PM
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Like I said, I'd rather the kid just be expelled and maybe charged with something minor rather than him having a felony on his record. Maybe the court can reduce the charges, and I hope that's what happens. However, doing something like this isn't just a minor deal like you're saying. He broke into the school's computer system after stealing the teacher's password, then used the computer system to harass people.
I also wasn't implying that he was going to turn into a violent criminal, but that he's probably a human being who, when he gets away with something small, is more likely to try to get away with something big. It's better than he's caught and punished now, at 14, when he's likely to get some mercy because of his age and because he didn't really do anything awful, then for him to learn he can get away with stuff and end up messing up his own life later.
And if people have the "do the crime, do the time attitude" until something affects them, isn't part of that problem that people aren't regulating their own lives? Isn't one reason people have passed all these laws that people won't take care of their own problems until the law catches them? And isn't the flip side of being "affected" the people who are aversely affected by the crime committed? Like you said, there are plenty of people who might not think stealing a teacher's password, breaking into the school's computer system, and harassing people is a big deal until they're the ones having problems with their computer systems being hacked, or they're the ones being harassed.
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Oculus Spirit [79423]
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Who did he really harrass?
Apr 16, 2015, 12:24 PM
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He did get caught, and was punished via suspension. There's no need to throw every little thing to the justice system and let it sort it out. You can punish people without criminally charging them. And there was no victim here, let's be real. He's an immature kid, throwing a charge on him will most likely have th opposite effect that is intended, and he'll grow up hating the legal system like most kids nowadays.
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All-In [28802]
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It says he did this multiple times
Apr 16, 2015, 12:37 PM
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And actually was punished in-house, along with some others, when he did it before. So it's not like they didn't try less harsh alternatives. It also sounds like he was giving the password out to other students and creating a wider problem.
Put yourself in the shoes of the school. They've clearly got a problem with students breaking into their computers, and they've tried just giving them detention or maybe small suspensions. But one student just keeps breaking into their computers, and is now harassing one of the teachers. Then their parents seem less concerned about the kid's behavior than they are about how easily the kid was able to access the system. So who do you turn to stop that kid from trying to break in? Again, I don't think the kid should end up with a felony on his record, but clearly somebody beyond the school and his parents needed to be involved.
Also, I don't think most kids hate the legal system, because most kids haven't been involved with the legal system. Some who have been involved with the legal system understand they did something wrong and aren't indignant at being punished for it.
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Oculus Spirit [81026]
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It doesn't take much to find hatred for the legal system
Apr 16, 2015, 12:59 PM
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Grow up in a small town and see the daily corruption by the local PD, then get charged with something minor and stupid, and have it stick for life. That did it for me.
But with the password thing...the schools IT dept should have some culpability in this. Why don't they require changing passwords or even complex passwords in this environment? Especially after it has happened before?
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All-In [28802]
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I sort of agree about the password
Apr 16, 2015, 1:04 PM
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But if the kid stole the password by watching the teacher putting the password in, couldn't he have stolen any password? Obviously it's harder to figure out what somebody's typing if it's not just their name.
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Oculus Spirit [81026]
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Throw a few caps and special characters in there
Apr 16, 2015, 1:07 PM
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and there's no way he could figure it out.
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All-In [42125]
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All-In [28802]
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Repeatedly breaking into school computers isn't normal
Apr 16, 2015, 1:02 PM
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You guys are ignoring a lot of what's said in the article to minimize what he was doing. It says that he'd done this multiple times and been punished for it before. Charging him with a crime was clearly a result of him not getting the message. And if repeatedly breaking into a school's computer system is normal, then I would say that makes the case that it's actually a pretty serious problem.
There are plenty of reasons to think that the passage of too many laws has led to over criminalization, but this isn't really a good example of that. It's probably a good example of charges being too harsh, but we also don't know the whole history.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [42125]
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Let's look at it
Apr 16, 2015, 1:26 PM
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"But Green, interviewed at home, said students would often log into the administrative account to screen-share with their friends. They'd use the school computers' cameras to see each other, he said."
Common teenage response. "Everyone else is doing it, too."
"Green had previously received a three-day suspension for accessing the system inappropriately. Other students also got in trouble at the time, he said. It was a well-known trick, Green said, because the password was easy to remember: a teacher's last name. He said he discovered it by watching the teacher type it in."
Getting punished for something they didn't perceive as a big deal and then doing it again? Yeah, that's not that uncommon for teenage boys.
Sounds like the school needs to tighten up computer security and stop blaming kids for accessing holes in their faulty system. I mean, if they broke in once before, how do you not change the password?
I will say it looks like this boy is ready to snitch, though!
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All-In [42125]
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