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Replies: 39
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110%er [7913]
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Not a Jack fan or hater...quite frankly I don't pay attn to
May 26, 2015, 9:09 AM
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baseball most of the time but if we ever find a basketball coach that can make the tournament 21 out of 22 times pinch me...Go Tigers!
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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^^^^^^^^ what he said
May 26, 2015, 9:12 AM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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given that logic, then both programs - baseball and BBall -
May 26, 2015, 9:51 AM
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should have won Natty's by now just as have the Clemson Men's Football, Soccer, and Golf programs.
And yet for all the times we have been to the CWS, we have never even been runner-up in Baseball,
nor has playing in the historically best conference helped take us even once to the Final Four in Basketball.
Different programs, different sports, different dynamics, different results.
I'd say the proverbial apples and oranges have confused ye, no?
Though I will say this: if you want to see the historically middling results of our basketball program repeated in baseball, then just keep putting your head in the sand about current issues there.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Comparing our baseball program to other baseball programs is
May 26, 2015, 12:58 PM
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the best metric.
Show me all the programs that have done these things in the last 21 years...
--Only missed the NCAA tournament once.
--Been to a Super Regional or better 11 times
--Been to the CWS 6 times
--Finished in the top20 14 times
If you find more than 5 programs who have done all of those things or better than I will give you a cookie and take your arguments seriously.
There are plenty who have done 1,2 of 3 of those things or better. But next to nobody has our long-term consistency. Clemson never saw an era like that under Wilhelm and he is another elite, Hall of Famer.
If you can't find more than 5 then you are forced by logic to admit that Jack Leggett has done better than over 95% of everyone else.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Comparing our baseball program to other baseball programs is
May 26, 2015, 1:03 PM
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At the end of the day it comes down to Championships.... One in Twenty years is not getting it done.
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Legend [16134]
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yeah, but if our own coach wouldn't want to play us, that's
May 26, 2015, 1:05 PM
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gotta count for something right? right?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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No it doesn't. You just made that up.
May 26, 2015, 1:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Comparing our baseball program to other baseball programs is ] |
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In the world of college baseball, how deep you go in the tournament is the clear measure of success. Conference tournaments are worthless. That has been proven beyond any doubt by coaches and the selection committee for over a decade now. As a libertarian, I support your right to make up random metrics that only you care about.... but you are unable to claim that matters to anyone else.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: No it doesn't. You just made that up.
May 26, 2015, 1:28 PM
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I made what up?
One in Twenty years?
No that is a fact.
Also we dont even finish regular season at the top of the ACC much less Tournament Championships.
Elite Coaches win championships period. Sorry for thinking Clemson should be elite in Baseball.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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One in twenty is a fact. That it matters is not.***
May 26, 2015, 1:30 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: One in twenty is a fact. That it matters is not.***
May 26, 2015, 1:36 PM
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Because it doesnt support your argument got it...
Any other things you dont like that want to be taken off the table since apparently that is how your closeminded self works?
How about our fielding %s over the years. Does that hurt your feelings too much also?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I made very clear that it was not my decision to not care
May 26, 2015, 1:41 PM
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about the conference tourney. The coaches and the selection committee and the college baseball world made that decision. If it were up to me personally I would emphasize the conference tourney more. I am merely reacting to reality.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: I made very clear that it was not my decision to not care
May 26, 2015, 1:44 PM
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I AM TALKING ABOUT REGULAR SEASON AS WELL!
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Well then we have done well enough in every regular season
May 26, 2015, 1:57 PM
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minus one, to get to the part that really matters.
Coaches treat the regular season merely as a staging ground for a tournament run.
I'm sure you can see that.
But, again, I'm disappointed in the last 4 years too. I'm just not out of touch with reality.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Well then we have done well enough in every regular season
May 26, 2015, 2:11 PM
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Woo hoo we got there!!! We made it everyone gets a trophy! Screw actually winning anything as long as we participated. Participation ribbons for everyone!!!!!
One Championship in Twenty years....period.
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Legend [16134]
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I don't get the "yay we got there, who cares about actually
May 26, 2015, 6:10 PM
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winning a game in the tourney" mindset either
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The funny thing is, nobody here has that mentality.
May 26, 2015, 6:11 PM
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It's just a straw man argument.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Well then we have done well enough in every regular season
May 27, 2015, 1:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: Well then we have done well enough in every regular season ] |
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Yes, everyone gets a trophy because everyone gets into the NCAA tournament every year. It's just weird that only 11 of over 300 teams can match our current streak of 7 straight tourney appearance so somebody is saving a lot of money on trophies.
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CU Guru [1400]
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OK then
May 26, 2015, 7:50 PM
[ in reply to No it doesn't. You just made that up. ] |
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Why even play in the ACC Tournament at all? Just decline the invite since it "doesn't matter" and you run the risk of getting someone hurt. Give one of the teams left out the opportunity to play their way into a regional instead of going out there and half-assing it because "it doesn't matter."
Also, does the regular season count? If so we have only finished with the best conference record three times under Jack.
But hey....if you are satisfied with being a mediocre ACC team year after year that squeaks into the post-season by the skin of your teeth like we have the past two seasons 21 years into a coach's tenure then that says a ton about what you are willing to settle for.
Message was edited by: Kaplony®
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Rock Defender [58]
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Re: OK then
May 26, 2015, 8:53 PM
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Right on!
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Rock Defender [58]
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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75% of those have missed the tournament several times.
May 26, 2015, 1:40 PM
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Would you trade one championship for ten years of mediocrity? That's a personal choice. We are one of the few who have a chance every single year. We made the final 4 twice in that time period.
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Legend [16134]
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We have a chance every year?***
May 26, 2015, 2:25 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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We are in the tournament every year. Well except one.
May 26, 2015, 6:10 PM
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That would be the chance I was referring to. Versus the 250 or so teams not in the tournament who have no chance.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Looking at the 13 different champions since 1994
May 26, 2015, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to 75% of those have missed the tournament several times. ] |
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Vanderbilt: 10 tournament appearances in the last 21 years (all since Corbin was hired) 2 CWS appearances, 1 title.
UCLA: 13 NCAA Tournament Appearances in the last 21 years (all since 1996), 4 CWS appearances, 1 runner up, 1 championship.
Arizona: only 9 Tournament appearances in the last 21 years (8 since 2003), 2 CWS appearances, 1 championship.
South Carolina: 16 Tournament appearances in the last 21 years (all since 1998), 6 CWS appearances, 2 Runner Ups, 2 championships.
LSU: 19 tournament appearances in 21 years, 10 CWS appearances, 4 Titles.
Fresno State: 12 tournament appearances in 21 years, 1 CWS Appearance, 1 Title.
Oregon State: 9 Tournament appearances in the last 21 years (all since 2005) 4 CWS Appearances, 2 titles.
Texas: 18 Tournament Appearances in 21 years, 8 CWS Appearances (all since 2000), 2 runner ups, 2 titles.
Cal State Fullerton: The last time they missed the tournament was 1991, Since '94 they have 9 CWS appearances and 2 championships.
Rice: 20 Tournament appearances (all since 1995), 7 CWS appearances, 1 Title.
Miami: Made the tournament every year since 1973. Since '94 they have 11 CWS appearances, 1 runner up, and 2 titles.
USC: 10 Tournament appearances in the last 21 years, 4 CWS appearances, 1 runner up, 1 championship, all before 2005. Clearly USC made some bad hires after Gillespie left but appear to be back on track now.
Oklahoma: 15 tournament appearances in the last 21 years, 3 CWS appearances, 1 title.
Compare those resumes to Clemson: 20 Tournament appearances in 21 years, 6 CWS Appearances, no runner ups, no titles.
Which programs would you trade resumes with? Which ones would you not trade with?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Point for looking up the actual comparisons. Thank you.
May 26, 2015, 3:41 PM
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I would not trade USC, Fresno, Arizona, UCLA or Vandy because our history of the last 22 years is overall better... which means we are in a pretty elite category considering there are over 300 programs but only 8 or so left on the list.
FSU is another program with a ton of success that hasn't had a championship. I would trade with them too.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Point for looking up the actual comparisons. Thank you.
May 26, 2015, 4:38 PM
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FSU has at least won the conference your boy jack hasnt even done that.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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'My boy?' Are you getting emotional?
May 26, 2015, 6:08 PM
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I have stated clearly that I am not certain he is the best fit for Clemson at this point. Try to keep it rational.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: 'My boy?' Are you getting emotional?
May 26, 2015, 6:26 PM
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The person who just up and ignores all evidence that doesnt fit his argument is telling someone else to keep it rational... Let me guess "It doesnt matter".
That is gold jerry gold.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Re: Point for looking up the actual comparisons. Thank you.
May 27, 2015, 2:29 PM
[ in reply to Point for looking up the actual comparisons. Thank you. ] |
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Yeah I decided to leave my comments out and let others decide for themselves who they'd trade with. In a couple of years if trends stay the same you might be saying you would trade with USC and Vandy. USC has a fantastic history and appears to be finally reemerging, and Vandy is probably a top 5 program over the last decade and isn't showing any sign of slowing down.
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Orange Blooded [2438]
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Give me the ones with banners, every time.
May 26, 2015, 8:48 PM
[ in reply to Looking at the 13 different champions since 1994 ] |
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Considering how much grief we give USuCk about their one football banner in 69, we sure seem awfully content with no titles and no runner ups in the CWS. Does it not bother ANYONE that our hated in state rival has two runner ups and two titles....especially since we were.... er...."involved " in one runner up and one title for them?
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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actually, show me another program whose winning percentage
May 26, 2015, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to Comparing our baseball program to other baseball programs is ] |
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has dropped almost unerringly each year for the last 20.
If you can do this, then I'll agree that competition, and not coaching, is the problem.
Funny though, people around here fired a Football coach because in 9 years he was unable to provide a conference championship, adding to a string of 9 years previous to that without a ring.
So tell me, just how long do our current coaches in baseball get a pass for not being able to luck into even one since 2006?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Show me one program who maintained .800, .750 over the last
May 26, 2015, 2:01 PM
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22 years. I'll wait.
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Legend [16902]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: actually, show me another program whose winning percentage
May 27, 2015, 9:17 AM
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Show the entire ACC.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: actually, show me another program whose winning percentage
May 27, 2015, 9:33 AM
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Do it yourself if it'll put me in my place. The fact is that we have traditionally been second to FSU and the trend line shows that has continued. Minus the half game we lost when the cancelled a Duke game we very well may have been tied with FSU this year.
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: Comparing our baseball program to other baseball programs is
May 27, 2015, 12:19 AM
[ in reply to Comparing our baseball program to other baseball programs is ] |
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> the best metric.
>
> Show me all the programs that have done these things
> in the last 21 years...
>
> --Only missed the NCAA tournament once.
>
> --Been to a Super Regional or better 11 times
>
> --Been to the CWS 6 times
>
> --Finished in the top20 14 times
>
> If you find more than 5 programs who have done all of
> those things or better than I will give you a cookie
> and take your arguments seriously.
>
> There are plenty who have done 1,2 of 3 of those
> things or better. But next to nobody has our
> long-term consistency. Clemson never saw an era like
> that under Wilhelm and he is another elite, Hall of
> Famer.
>
> If you can't find more than 5 then you are forced by
> logic to admit that Jack Leggett has done better than
> over 95% of everyone else.
Here's a metric for ya- how many of those things you listed have come in the past 8 years? This program is on a decline. It's fairly obvious. The upward mobility has ceased.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Comparing our baseball program to other baseball programs is
May 27, 2015, 1:20 AM
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7 Regional Apearances and 3 Regional Championships, 3 Super Regional Appearances and 1 Super Regional Championship, 1 CWS appearance and 1 CWS semi-final appearance. Not bad. Only 11 out of over 300 d1 teams can even match our current 7 straight regional appearances. Plus, it's real cute how you set your cut off to exclude the 2006 season.
So how about actually answer the challenge and find more than 5 more consistent programs.
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Legend [16134]
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yeah, because that's apples to apples***
May 26, 2015, 12:46 PM
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110%er [7913]
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love to stir the pot with you guys and disappear for another
May 26, 2015, 1:29 PM
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month or so..... 
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Replies: 39
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