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Legend [15730]
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Comments from Ben Shapiro on Charlottesville
Aug 14, 2017, 10:03 AM
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http://www.dailywire.com/news/19658/7-things-you-need-know-about-charlottesville-ben-shapiro
I appreciate these notes, especially on differentiating the "alt-right" from the "constitutional conservative." A lot of times people will simplify to "left" and "right", but these people practice Identity Politics. This is the antithesis of the conservative approach. Wanting controlled borders is not the same as what these people believe.
I also appreciate his comments on the size of this "movement". In a free country of over 320 million people, having a few thousand who think this way is no surprise. I think we are arrogant or naive to think we can eliminate it completely. Some people are just angry, misguided and ignorant. The only way to completely stamp it out is to place too much control over people. When people say "even one person who thinks like this is unacceptable", I might agree, in my house. Or in my circle of friends. But I don't think you can scream it out of them, beat it out of them or legislate it out of them.
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Heisman Winner [137807]
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"a few thousand" is a gross underestimate of neo-Nazis,
Aug 14, 2017, 10:10 AM
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white supremacists, and sympathizers, don't you think? There are more than that just in SC.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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Yes. Too much minimizing and false equivalence in that
Aug 14, 2017, 10:11 AM
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piece.
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Legend [15730]
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Oh my. How do? Can you give examples?
Aug 14, 2017, 10:19 AM
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I'm surprised you came to that conclusion. I thought he was very clear in his condemnation of the protestors and the murderer in the car. And of Trump's response. And he also noted that the "antifa" protestors also have blame for the violence. Is this inaccurate?
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Legend [15730]
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All-In [38514]
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That jumped out to me when I read that yesterday.
Aug 14, 2017, 10:16 AM
[ in reply to "a few thousand" is a gross underestimate of neo-Nazis, ] |
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It appears that he's only referring to "alt-right" and not other groups. Even then he only appears to be referring to the internet variety.
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Oculus Spirit [83015]
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Lot o points [155706]
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Didn't you type England the first time?
Aug 14, 2017, 10:41 AM
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I swear I saw "England".
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All-TigerNet [11145]
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Legend [15730]
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Details please?
Aug 14, 2017, 11:04 AM
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Keep in mind that the "few thousand" comment was mine, not his. Also, his 1,600 comment is a direct quote from the study he linked. ("6,131- Number of unique users who posted tweets to US journalists, 1,600 of whom generated 13,500 of the 19,253 total tweets."). Again, note that he is using specific data about specific activities (alt-right tweet activity directed at journalists). Seems to me his reasearch is fair. I would be more of the one throwing around numbers than he is. And I think my overall premise is valid: The size of the "Alt-Right isn't as big as they want you to believe.
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Lot o points [155706]
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Genuine question here.............why do we keep making
Aug 14, 2017, 11:06 AM
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up new names for everything. Didn't "White Supremacist" pretty much cover the same ground that is now trying to be covered with "Alt-right" and/or "White nationalist"? Why the lexicon updates?
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Legend [15730]
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That's a great question! I made the same observation
Aug 14, 2017, 11:16 AM
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months ago when I first heard the term "alt-right". It's just a rebranding of white supremacists. (I'd find the post for you but Tigernet's search function is awful). If I'm being inconsistent here, it's just sloppiness on my part.
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Hall of Famer [24695]
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Kind of like antifa and ADL....Branding.***
Aug 14, 2017, 11:28 AM
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All-In [28802]
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Alt-right covers a lot more than white nationalism
Aug 14, 2017, 1:14 PM
[ in reply to That's a great question! I made the same observation ] |
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Some of the alt-right people aren't racist, but many are. They also don't want to be associated with the KKK and neo-nazis and other historical white supremacists because they see themselves as justifiably sticking up for white interests ("just like other groups are!") rather than denigrating other groups.
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Lot o points [155706]
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No, I hear you there, but in modern media parlance,
Aug 14, 2017, 1:19 PM
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alt-right is being used synonymously with white supremacist. It seems like a way to paint people with the same brush, where the White Supremacist label might have been met with skepticism before.
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Legend [15730]
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So some guy named Jared Taylor was on a video on the Shapiro
Aug 14, 2017, 1:23 PM
[ in reply to Alt-right covers a lot more than white nationalism ] |
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article saying that whites have a higher is than other races and that's why the cultures are different and multiculturalism doesn't work. That sounds like white supremacy to me. The video was this guy explains alt-right.
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All-In [28802]
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He's not the only alt-right pundit, though***
Aug 14, 2017, 1:27 PM
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All-In [26968]
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There is some nuance there...
Aug 14, 2017, 3:00 PM
[ in reply to Genuine question here.............why do we keep making ] |
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White Supremacists would believe that they other races are inferior, obviously.
The Nationalists make it more about this country being "white", and keeping it so.
I think they're mostly the same people, but the terms deal with different aspects of their thinking. There can be white supremacists, especially in other places, that aren't nationalists (at least from an American perspective).
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All-TigerNet [11145]
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Seriously? You don't see the sample size the least bit
Aug 14, 2017, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to Details please? ] |
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suspect by limiting it to a twitter search? That's not research, that's a couple of elementary school calculations. Can he find out the number of white supremacists who actively tweet? The ones who don't? The ones who are organized locally? Nationally? The ones who think violence is justifiable in their cause? If I went door-to-door in my county, I could find 1600 sympathizers without difficulty.
It's not that white supremacists are on the verge of taking over civilized society, but their numbers are far greater than what he's leading the reader to believe. Shapiro is entertainment, and he's trying to support his point of view. He wants it to be a bit controversial so he gets hits on his site, linked on FB, Twatter, IG, etc...
Their numbers should not matter in the long run. What matters is that this kind of mentality should not be tolerated by anyone that calls themselves an American.
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Legend [15730]
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Okay. Appreciate your thoughts.***
Aug 14, 2017, 12:07 PM
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All-In [28802]
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You really think you'd find 1600 neo-nazis and...
Aug 14, 2017, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to Seriously? You don't see the sample size the least bit ] |
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white nationalists in a county of 400,000? I guess that's possible, because that would only be like .5% of the population.
But his point wasn't that there are only 1600 of these people in the country, but that their numbers are greatly inflated.
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All-In [28802]
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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...and how would you quantify their 'sympathizers'?
Aug 14, 2017, 1:58 PM
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Surely the yardstick for determining who they actually are would be quite subjective.
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All-In [31860]
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Legend [15730]
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Two things. 1) I'm referring to active participants in the
Aug 14, 2017, 12:14 PM
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White supremacy movement. 2) we're getting too hung up on my flippant "few thousand" comment. The point is that it's smaller than the "Alt-Right" would have you believe, and I believe by a considerable margin.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Comments from Ben Shapiro on Charlottesville
Aug 15, 2017, 4:40 AM
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I don't believe this alt-right crap. The Friday before the incident a long column of young men wearing the same khakis pants and white polo shirts marched across the UVA campus carrying torches and eventually gathered in a perfect circle around the Robert E Lee statue. I've watched these pro-Trump patriotic rallies. They are always organic, loosely organized and loaded with red, white and blue. Patriotism rules at these events. Charlottesville was a Soros-organized false flag designed to incite violence so the media could blame trump.
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