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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Names and societal norms
Jun 10, 2020, 12:50 AM
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In addition to making a distinction on naming based on the purpose of naming - such as to honor a man, I think it’s important to look at historical context and norms.
For example, in Tillman’s later time slavery was illegal and he purported to have said some awful things - even within the context of the late 19th century.
Calhoun owned slaves during a time it was legal. However, he was an instigator of secession - perhaps crossing the line.
Many other figures owned slaves including Washington, Jefferson, Vanderbilt and the prophet Mohammed. I don’t think it’s reasonable to rename everything named after such men or persecute Muslims because they follow someone that owned slaves.
So the slope is not so slippery if you use some logic.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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no one has the moral high ground...
Jun 10, 2020, 1:08 AM
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Slavery was an issue when the country was founded and the founders chose to kick that can down the road like politicians still do today.
I have no problem renaming things if it makes sense. I don't want to rename things for symbolic purposes.
Many on here have been arguing against renaming things because it will never be enough - the "Give an Inch, Take a Mile" argument. This is not my problem either, because if we start renaming things because of the bad things people did, it makes logical sense that we MUST rename everything.
It's not that people will never be satisfied, but if that is our motivation, we MUST rename everything or we are being hypocritical. The next steps are renaming the college, the city, the county. Then we can go down the road to Furman (Richard Furman owned salves and used the Bible to defend it). Then we just keep going.
If that's what we want to do, then let's do it. But I'm not in favor of picking and choosing. If it really matters and is substantive change, then let's do it. If it's just symbolic, then it doesn't matter.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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and the societal norm argument doesn't cut it either...
Jun 10, 2020, 1:12 AM
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for someone like me who believes history should be interpreted within it's contemporary context, that makes sense. But you need to look at how history is being taught today. Our kids are taught to that history only has meaning viewed with a modern day lens.
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Orange Blooded [3034]
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Re: Names and societal norms
Jun 10, 2020, 3:06 AM
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The slavery slope is not slippery at all. It's sticky and stinky. Please don't justifiy the past and then ignore the present. We're better than that.
Go Tigers!
TC
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All-TigerNet [13095]
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So much needs to change...
Jun 10, 2020, 7:46 AM
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South is offensive and Carolina is named after King Charles 1, who obviously owned slaves. New state name is: state #8
State flower, yellow jassimine could offend Asians. New state flower: ragweed
State mammal, white tailed deer. I mean why does it have to be white? New state mammal: squirrel
State reptile, loggerhead turtle could be offensive to big headed people. You know those people with their hats hanging on that last nub on the back. New state reptile: alligator
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Re: Names and societal norms
Jun 10, 2020, 11:30 AM
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I think context is important and while not completely objective it can be used to decide whether or not to rename something that was solely named to honor a person.
It is done all the time. Google James R Metts.
Furthermore I believe Tillman Hall was renamed in 1962 well after it was built so there is precedence on our campus and you’re being irrational in your thinking if you say we shouldn’t rename now but it was ok back then.
Also when you think about what was happening at the time, 1962 was probably not a coincidental date.
Tillman Hall is probably referenced in print and pictured more than any other site on campus, especially in academic arenas. I don’t think it’s appropriate to have black students constantly reminded about our honoring of Tillman - particularly because his name was added to the building in 1962 at the height of the south’s opposition to the coming integration.
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Legend [17281]
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Clemson has many distinguished alumni & even faculty....
Jun 10, 2020, 11:52 AM
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that are deserving of recognition. Their lives and accomplishments are without controversial social positions. Associating their names with buildings and colleges would be a public acknowledgement of the contributions of true Clemson men or women not historical figures.
The history books remain unchanged. Calhoun and Tillman’s legacies are preserved and their social positions can be explained in the context of their times.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Re: Clemson has many distinguished alumni & even faculty....
Jun 10, 2020, 11:57 AM
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Excellent point! Where is the Ben Skardon building on campus? Or the RC Edwards building?
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