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Legend [15862]
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My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 2:45 PM
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do you think should have been hired and I would like to know why you think your hire would have been more successful than Ken Hatfield.
I am proud to have supported Coach Parker, Coach Pell, Coach Ford, Coach Hatfield, Coach West and Coach Bowden and now Dabo because they were/are Tigers now or in the past. As a true die hard dedicated Clemson fan all of these coaches deserved support from true Clemson fans. A true fan is that fan who supports the team through the good times and the bad times. Unfortunately, we have had some dark days related to fans actions during one or more of the above HC’s mentioned.
PS: There is no one one this board I dislike even though we don’t agree on many issues. I am proud to be part of the Clemson Family.
Message was edited by: wueagle86®
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All-In [40869]
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you must have been really mad when we fired Bowden***
May 26, 2019, 2:49 PM
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Legend [15862]
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Re: you must have been really mad when we fired Bowden***
May 26, 2019, 2:59 PM
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No you are wrong. I felt TB had taken us far as he could and that after 10 years a change was needed. But I am not an AD so I did not have all of the inside facts regarding DF’s departure or TB’s departure. I am very thankful we hired a once a in generation HC in Dabo Swinney. Rarely has there been a football coach with Dabo’s imagination, vision and the ability to ignite a fan base.
And I think Ken Hatfield was a good hire during difficult times in Clemson Football history.
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All-TigerNet [10121]
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Hang in there eagle .... I think you're .....
May 26, 2019, 2:53 PM
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..... getting converts .... -
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Top 10 Reasons to Keep Ken Hatfield...
May 26, 2019, 2:57 PM
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You know, in case you needed additional firepower?
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Legend [15862]
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Re: Top 10 Reasons to Keep Ken Hatfield...
May 26, 2019, 3:07 PM
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Who would you have hired and why?? What in your opinion makes you think your hire would have been as successful or even more successful than KH.???
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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You might try being a little less emotionally encumbered...
May 26, 2019, 3:21 PM
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by this?
Ken Hatfield might be Clemson University's most prominent[experienced] hire - ever? Bowden, because of his name, would be up there, OP because of his many stops, Amanda Butler because she captained Florida, Barnes because he was a hot national name, although "young", but mostly, including Dabo Swinney, Clemson has hired those that they can "make" their own - Dabo's the gold standard at the moment?
I offered you that Tee Shirt, which I own, as I said to give you more firepower. Maybe take the time to roll it around a bit? Many wanted Coach Hatfield gone, he's become a punchline and some of those Hong Kong Fuey images only spurn good folks forward, because sometimes it's just better to laugh.
I have my own thoughts about that time, including President Lennon, I'll mostly keep them mine.
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Heisman Winner [139867]
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Re: You might try being a little less emotionally encumbered...
May 26, 2019, 4:17 PM
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Oculus Spirit [76721]
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Commissioner [942]
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Commissioner [942]
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Legend [15862]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Meant for another poster?***
May 26, 2019, 4:17 PM
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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We lost to a bad Wake team at Homecoming
May 27, 2019, 8:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: Top 10 Reasons to Keep Ken Hatfield... ] |
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in 1992. That season was also our first losing season since 1976. Hatfield’s 1990 and 1991 teams were loaded with DF’s talented recruits. His last two teams were not nearly as talented because Hatfield could not recruit Clemson’s base states, thus the losing season in 1992 and the fair season in 1993. Both of those seasons showed the writing was on the wall. The only reason we won in 1990 and 1991 was because we were loaded with great talent recruited by Ford and his staff. Period.
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CU Medallion [58368]
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Clemson fans needed a Boogeyman, and Hatfield was it.
May 26, 2019, 3:06 PM
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Danny Ford was a legend, a hero, beloved by all Clemson people, and he was shown the door. Clemson fans were understandably angry and bitter by the horible way in which that was handled. Anything short of Ford-like success was unacceptable, and whoever was at the helm was going to feel all of that built-up wrath. The fact is, Hatfield was a good football coach, but he was the wrong coach at the wrong time for Clemson. It's no more complicated than that.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Clemson fans needed a Boogeyman, and Hatfield was it.
May 26, 2019, 4:02 PM
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Ken Hatfield was a good and decent man, but he was incapable of coaching a top-tier team like Clemson. Totally in over his head. Hey, live with it, and stop presenting us with false, revisionist history. He totally wasted good talent at Clemson, had no credibility with which to recruit, and had us on the brink of total disaster when he was fired. As I recall, he was then hired as the "savior" of the Rice University program, national power that they are, but I understand that this mutual salvation didn't turn out too well. To my knowledge, Rice didn't become a national power under his tutelege. Correct me if I'm wrong. Did they even have a winning season? For future success, perhaps we should fire our current coaching staff and bring back Ken Hatfield, Tommy West, and Red Parker. Think of the money we'd save! These guys would work for food and a little pocket money. We could sell our stadium for an enormous amount, and play our football games on Bowman field for the few dozen fans who would attend. We could have a slightly elevated wooden perch for our distinguished coaches, and even provide them with a couple of free hot dogs and cokes. We might even challenge some of the local high-school teams in football! Back to the glory days with Hatfield, West, and Parker!
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Legend [15862]
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Re: Clemson fans needed a Boogeyman, and Hatfield was it.
May 26, 2019, 4:53 PM
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Yes he was successful at Rice. Hatfield went 7-4 his first 2 seasons at Rice won the conference title something that was last done in 1957.
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CU Medallion [51892]
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I appreciate your opinion and the right to express it, but..
May 26, 2019, 3:10 PM
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I was there and don't care to relive those days during a time when the Tigers are at the top. Hatfield was a good man who followed a legend. I'll leave it at that.
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Orange Blooded [2313]
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Re: I appreciate your opinion and the right to express it, but..
May 26, 2019, 4:27 PM
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He should have never followed a legend. He was brought in because Robinson and the Prez. wanted their own man. He was handed a potential National Championship team and ran it into the ground. The only reason we beat Maryland that first year was the Maryland coach was stupid in accepting a five yard penalty a giving us another shot at 3rd down. Even Jim Phillips said so on the radio. And the way we lost to Ga. Tech was stupid. If you kick some field goal (like some Alabama alumni would have done) and we would have won the game. Then "good ol' Ken asks our field goal kicker to kick a 60 yarder.
He proved to be a waste of a good dream.
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CU Medallion [51892]
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Re: I appreciate your opinion and the right to express it, but..
May 26, 2019, 4:40 PM
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You don't have to convince me. As I said above, I lived through it all.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 3:26 PM
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JP,
Are we really supporting the team when we continue to support a coach who for whatever reasons is failing the players, the University, and the fan base (read Hatfield)? College coaching is like any other highly-paid executive endeavor in that the possibility of failure is inevitable. Failure must be recognized and corrected if you want your program to remain competative in this kind of ultra competetive environment.
Did you complain when we won two national championships in the last two years? Clemson, as I understand it, just received a 31 million dollar payout as our share of last year's ACC revenues. Dabo currently makes over 7 million a year. Should we not pay that? Can you imagine the number of college teams that would jump at the chance to pay him that should we falter? Brent Venables makes over 2 million a year, and our defense eats other teams alive. What? Cut his pay and wave goodbye as a dozen other teams leap to employ him. Okay then, let's abolish football at Clemson. (Good luck with any future Alumni donations.) We obtain enormous TV coverage and publicity due to our football games. Can you imagine what it would cost us out-of-pocket to pay for this degree of exposure? Football is a significant part of our national culture. Is that wrong? If so, tell Europe and South America to abolish soccer. LOL.
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Legend [15862]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 3:33 PM
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Dabo and BV are worth every penny we pay them. In fact I am in total support of the entire and their compensation.
But this is not what I ask in my post. I would an opinion as to who others would have hired to replace DF.
So far no one has come close to answering my question. Who would you have hired rather than Ken Hatfield??? Simple question.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 4:15 PM
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Nick Saban, Kirby Smart, the current Ohio State coach, the coach at Southern Cal, the coach at LSU---just to name a few. Clemson could have gotten any number of top coaches throughout the country---and we hired Ken Hatfield??? Clemson is one of the top coaching positions in the country. We stumbled into Dabo, one of the best, but to compare him with Ken Hatfield is lunacy. Hey, I think that Hatfield was a good, likeable guy, but as an effective coach at Clemson----No, no, and again No!
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Legend [15862]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 4:27 PM
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How about a name of a coach available in 1990? I don’t think anyone you named was available when KH was hired.
Name your coach from the 1990 season to replace DF and why this coach. And do you think he would had a better win - loss record than KH???? This can’t be that difficult or can it actually be KH was the best hire under all circumstances considered???
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 7:15 PM
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Was Steve Spurrier a possibility?
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All-In [26326]
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Coach Hatfield pushed me to be better than I thought I was
May 26, 2019, 3:58 PM
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Without his inspiration, there is NO WAY I could have thrown a fluted plastic cup full of ice from where I sat all the way to the sidelines where he stood. The moral of this is to never give up!!!
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Never give up & finish the bourbon your girlfriend muled...
May 26, 2019, 4:04 PM
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before throwing the cup.
Lessons to live by...
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All-In [26326]
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Truer words.... and welcome back brother.***
May 26, 2019, 4:08 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Thanks RT, you & many other game-ready users I missed...
May 26, 2019, 4:15 PM
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others, not so much.
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Oculus Spirit [81966]
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I take a fence
May 26, 2019, 4:17 PM
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to that.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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You wood. Keep an eye on your six, '94, they're rounding...
May 26, 2019, 4:29 PM
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up witnesses with intimate knowledge of Ken Hatfield and his Mrs.
Where were you in late November 1993, when Ken took his wishbone and went home?
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Oculus Spirit [81966]
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Those were strange and trying times DSP.
May 26, 2019, 7:35 PM
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I would not expect you to understand.
With that in mind, I have nothing more to say until my overpaid, underachieving, POS, coot loving attorney GWPTiger® is present.
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Commissioner [942]
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Hall of Famer [22525]
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Rick Stockstill was a position coach at the time (QBs)
May 26, 2019, 4:04 PM
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and it would have been similar to hiring Dabo, but
I have wondered if he would have been a decent HC
at Clemson. I understand they wanted to go in a
different direction and start clean, but RS and
some others from Ford's staff stayed on under Hatfield.
I had no problems with Hatfield per se, but always
wondered if he took the job just to leave Arkansas
since he was having his own feud with the Arkansas
AD Frank Broyles at the time and took the Clemson job
without ever even visiting the school. That and living
in Seneca or Townville or Fair Play or wherever didn't
endear him to Clemson fans. But he did recruit and
coach Clemson's first NFL Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins.
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All-In [27366]
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Sounds great, and partially true, but the FACT still remains
May 26, 2019, 4:13 PM
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that the only way to get a better coach in a timely manner (without their retiring, expiring, or leaving) is NOT supporting him until the BOT get the message.
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Legend [17584]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who***
May 26, 2019, 4:16 PM
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who***
May 26, 2019, 4:26 PM
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Is that you? You look pretty convincing in drag. Adds nothing to Hatfield's resume'. Unless he's willing to dance in drag. But then, the whistle's blown and the train is gone. What a waste. Two best coaches in college football: Nick Saban and Dabo Swinney.
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Heisman Winner [139867]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 4:24 PM
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.
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Orange Blooded [2313]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 4:30 PM
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why don't you go to Tech with Robinson.
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Heisman Winner [139867]
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I’m sorry...
May 26, 2019, 4:31 PM
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what?
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110%er [6858]
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He drove the program into the ground and was rightly not offered an extension.
May 26, 2019, 4:25 PM
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All there is to it.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: He drove the program into the ground and was rightly not offered an extension.
May 26, 2019, 4:35 PM
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I agree! Can we dispense with Ken Hatfield and get on to Clemson football? I think that we are thin at RB and TE. Am I wrong? I hope so. Also have concerns about our DL. We'd better watch out for N.C. State and Ga. Tech, who has gone away from the triple option. I sense over-optimism among our fans and also the media. This really scares me because there's nothing that will get you beat quicker. Respnses appreciated.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: He drove the program into the ground and was rightly not offered an extension.
May 26, 2019, 6:18 PM
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Clemson is thinner this year on the Dline, at LB, running back and tight end positions. Also, will Potter be an accurate kicker? He certainly has the leg. Much will depend on the freshmen contributing quickly. But every game still looks winnable.
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 26, 2019, 6:28 PM
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For what it is worth, while it might have ended badly, Hatfield had been a very successful Head coach to that point, and his flex bone offense at Arkansas was pretty effective. He also is very well thought of for trying to run programs the right way. I think a large part of his downfall was not being a great fit for our fan base, and also the game passing him by to a larger extent. His time at Rice pretty much proved his style of football wasnt going to work as he didnt have the same level of talent that he had in his last two stops. While I was not really ever a fan, I look at it all as part of our suffering that led us to the promised land.
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All-TigerNet [10121]
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Suffering is riiiight - I say in my best Strother Martin ...
May 26, 2019, 9:47 PM
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.... voice ..... lol
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 6, 2019, 3:48 PM
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I was one of the few not shattered by the firing of Danny Ford. I was completely over fullback-up-the-middle on 3rd and long; I was ready to move on to a more watchable, more exciting brand of football even if it meant an extra loss a year.
Then, in an effort to further de-emphasize football, the admin, still upset the football tail was wagging the academic dog, hired the one coach in America who liked and trusted the forward pass even less than Ford.
Hatfield won until he ran out of Ford's players. The came poor old Tommy West to look after the empty cupboard. I recall taking the ultimate leap in West's last year of actually pulling for SCar in our game, fearing a win might give West another year.
Only good thing I can say is that the "butterfly theory" states that if a butterfly flaps its wings just one extra beat a million years ago, all of history turns out differently. So if we don't do just what we did with Hatfield, maybe it throws off our coaching timeline and we're not ready for a coach when the time comes to grab Tommy Bowden after his undefeated season at Tulane.
However, it has all ended so ridiculously well, I no longer dwell on the misery it took to get us here.
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Orange Blooded [3454]
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Hatfield
May 26, 2019, 8:14 PM
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I think if we're going to discuss the succes (or lack of) under Hatfield, we need to consider the context of the circumstances under which was hired. The president of the university (Lennon) was actively trying to hobble the program. The BOD was hell bent on getting rid of Danny no matter what. We were on the cusp of becoming a legitimate college football powerhouse. I know that many here would say that were; we are now, not then. People, including me, were pissed that Danny was fired because we knew that the great program that were were watching grow was about to be dismantled. Which brings us to the NCAA; they hated everything Clemson and everything Ford. Clemson was at an inflection point; we were about to join Miami as the other renegade program in the CFA. Bringing in Hatfield was a decision that changed the foundational culture of Clemson football. Hatfield wasn't borough in to win football games; he was brought in to be the antithesis of Danny Ford. Like it or not, it worked. Looking back, Hatfield did a pretty good job considering that he had sub standard facilities and the administration working against him. He knew what he was getting into when he came and (IMO) he changed the path of Clemson football. Sure, the program took big steps backwards in results but I'm not so sure that the program (albeit successful on the field) would be one that we'd be proud of today. I'm certain that it would have eventually ended badly. JMHO
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All-In [43990]
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I don’t think Lennon was trying to hobble the football program.
May 26, 2019, 10:50 PM
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I think he was trying to get control of a football program which had lost its way. A program that was winning a fair amount, but with NCAA probation in the not too distant past and more NCAA issues possibly on the horizon (the program was being investigated again at the time of Ford’s firing). We had a coach who publicly challenged the school president over his desire for a football dorm - an issue which shouldn’t have been an issue at all.
Program with reputation for cheating + possibly more NCAA issues on the horizon + coach that thinks he’s bigger than the school’s administration = a coach that was asking be fired.
Clemson’s academic integrity was on the line, and I understand why Lennon did what he did. I realize that Danny did a lot for our program, and it’s a shame things didn’t turn out better, but you can’t have a freaking football coach calling the school president out at IPTAY meetings and on the news. You just can’t. And I’m tired of this notion that Danny was wronged by some vengeful president who had an axe to grind and who didn’t want football to succeed. That’s simply not true.
Lennon wasn’t a great president by any means, but the only reason Danny was fired was because Danny caused problems.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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At that time there was only 1 coach that everyone wanted
May 26, 2019, 9:03 PM
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and that was coach Ford. No one else stood a chance. It was that simple. Anything done good would've been attributed to Ford's players and the slightest step back meant the guy wasn't a coach on Ford's level. Unfortunately it took what happened to get the bad taste of not having Coach Ford out of their mouths. It is what it is!
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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I think Frank Beamer was available them breamer
May 26, 2019, 9:52 PM
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ball is close to Danny Ford ball He would have recruited .We never would hsve droped
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Standout [311]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 27, 2019, 8:23 AM
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Coach Hatfield had an almost impossible job. He replaced a beloved winner. In a different situation I believe he could have been successful at Clemson.
In my opinion Tommy West didn’t have the experience to be head coach. I think he was hired to appease disgruntled fans. Good guy,good defensive coach. Wasn’t ready to be head coach at the time.
I always thought Tommy Bowden was hired because of his family name. He didn’t appeal to the fans. I’m not sure the players liked him either. He didn’t seem to be a good game manager to me.
It’s also interesting how so many fans complained about promoting “wide receiver coach with no head coaching experience”. You know who you are.
I’m glad Clemson has worked through it all and become a National power in football. Thank you TDP.
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Orange Blooded [2063]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 27, 2019, 8:36 AM
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Bad coach that also wins the award for wearing the ugliest shirt in Clemson coaching history.
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Legend [17754]
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Barry Switzer would have gotten it done at Clemson!***
May 27, 2019, 10:04 AM
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Legend [15212]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 27, 2019, 10:13 AM
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Should've hired Dabo. Would've been much better than Hatfield.
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110%er [6610]
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Why Bring This Up?
May 27, 2019, 10:33 AM
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I'm not sure why of all things to bring this up. Some many fans weren't even around when this mess occured. Unless Danny Ford stepped down on his own and named his replacement, no coach was going to get a fair shake. I still remember Stan Olenick getting in the grill of either the AD OR President for what they did to Ford...It was a mess.
Who would I have went after in this what if? Frank Beamer.
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Orange Blooded [2313]
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Re: Why Bring This Up?
May 27, 2019, 2:32 PM
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As said in an IPTAY gathering at the fairgrounds in Ladson by Frank Howard, "Lennon, Robinson, and Ford should have been locked into a room and came out with things settled." Notice that Hatfield was not at this IPTAY meeting. Kind of strange that the new head football coach does not come to an athletic supporters meeting. Was he scared or just did not give a blank. Because of his ineptitude, we lost a recruit who was a Shrine Bowl running back, missed out on his upcoming classmates who QB'd at Georgia Tech and came in as a second place in the Heisman Vote,(was also considered the best point guard on the Tech campus even though he did not play), a DE who became a No. one draft pick in the NFL, or the DB who played thirteen years in the NFL. Hatfield was the Someone who would toe the line as told by the Prez. and AD.
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110%er [5476]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 27, 2019, 11:01 AM
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As the banner slowly pulled around the stadium stated: Howard built it, Ford filled it and Hatfield killed it. Nuff said!
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Orange Blooded [2313]
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Re: My support for Ken Hatfield is obvious. Since many think his hire was a disaster who
May 27, 2019, 2:33 PM
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A M E N!!!
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