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YOUR BALANCE
Clemson asked to remove its chaplain
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Clemson asked to remove its chaplain


Aug 28, 2015, 11:44 AM

From the football program.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/21/why-25-public-universities-have-been-asked-to-drop-their-college-football-chaplains/?postshare=4311440760149143
It's incredible that so many people are so busy being offended by EVERYTHING that the country's real issues are left unsolved - debt, constitutional rights breaches, tax code, illegal immigration.

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Even the name of that organization


Aug 28, 2015, 11:47 AM

shows they have no clue (and no respect). If you're going to take a constitutional perspective, at least understand that it is freedom OF religion not freedom FROM it. Buch of atheist bozo yankees anyway.

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Re: Even the name of that organization


Aug 28, 2015, 11:56 AM

No, they have it right (name at least). They are seeking to remove religion from being pushed out in public life, so it would be FROM it.

Still is completely sad they can't allow religion to be in places as long as it is not being forced. Their sense of reasoning is so skewed.

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They simply confuse the term "promote" with the mere


Aug 28, 2015, 12:15 PM

existence of religion in public places or around public entities (by funding).

And that has been a losing argument for generations. Sure, they occasionally find judges that will agree with their viewpoint. But I'm pretty sure nearly every instance gets overturned somewhere in the appeals process.

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Re: Even the name of that organization


Aug 28, 2015, 12:23 PM [ in reply to Even the name of that organization ]

Do they know congress starts every mornings session with a prayer?

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By their logic


Aug 28, 2015, 11:50 AM

These institutions should also have to get rid of the majority of professors for "imposing" their beliefs on students.

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Re: By their logic


Aug 28, 2015, 11:53 AM

No that would only be if the professors' ideologies had anything to do with religion. That said, would the FFRF be okay with it if those schools also kept a rabbi, an imam, and whatever other religious leaders there might be on staff as well?

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Re: By their logic


Aug 28, 2015, 12:05 PM

Maybe all of the universities should ban together and sue them. University of Wisconsin named and look where this group of idiots are based, Madison,WI. Seems like they can't get out of their own area with trying to band Christianity from their own backyard. Not likely to get anywhere with these other schools either. The federal government is to blame for organizations like ffrf. Will leave it at that. Support ALL of the universities that are named.

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Re: By their logic


Aug 28, 2015, 7:05 PM [ in reply to Re: By their logic ]

No, I believe "triple T" has is right. A professor's teaching ability is largely dependent on his/her intelligence, education, acumen, and personal life experience. He or she cannot presume to teach or instruct students without "believing" what they're saying, and it has nothing to do with "ideology". Instructors, teachers and professors everywhere have been and are increasingly told what they can and cannot "teach", or even say to their students - invariably (and ironically) based on extreme liberal "ideology" and agendas. Based on what's happening today, virtually ALL the professors and instructors I had at Clemson University - and with few exceptions they were regarded nationally and internationally as some of the (if not THE) best in their field, would be summarily fired simply for their personalities. Ah, the FFRF, or whatever it's called, isn't going to get far with this approach. They can go suck and egg.

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THat is a major understatement.***


Aug 28, 2015, 7:06 PM [ in reply to By their logic ]



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25 Colleges ask FFRF to remove...


Aug 28, 2015, 11:52 AM

the stick from their butts.

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Re: 25 Colleges ask FFRF to remove...


Aug 28, 2015, 11:59 AM

Every conference involved should quietly tell this PC organization that they have qualified legal teams which will be more than glad to counter sue if needed. I would love to see the NCAA also side with the institutions involved, but they have no guts!

Go Tigers!

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It will never happen. This group got nowhere going after


Aug 28, 2015, 11:52 AM

Clemson last yr and now seems to be trying to get attention right before football season starts.

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I expect Clemson will say what they did last time


Aug 28, 2015, 11:53 AM

Which I am paraphrasing as: No

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Hayell NO!***


Aug 28, 2015, 12:04 PM



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FFRF, go to hayell. Oh yea, you already are.


Aug 28, 2015, 12:12 PM

Aren't they doing the same thing they are asking not be done - impose their beliefs on others?

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this agnostic says "ignore 'em & they'll go away"


Aug 28, 2015, 12:14 PM

while i do not share dabo's faith, i agree 100% with the way he runs this program..if i had a son with the talent to play major college football, there is no other coach i would prefer he play for..dabo is the only football coach i've ever seen whose actions almost always line up with his faith.


Message was edited by: jackorange®


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GoTiguhs!!


America didn't get to be great by ignoring #########


Aug 28, 2015, 7:46 PM

going up to Wisconsin and kicking the sheatt out of these folks until they're across the line into Canada

makes 'em go away too.....

"liberals make far worse dictators than conservatives do"

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Is Perry Noble still the chaplain? If so, I agree.***


Aug 28, 2015, 12:14 PM



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Re: Is Perry Noble still the chaplain? If so, I agree.***


Aug 28, 2015, 12:22 PM

He's never been the team chaplain, I think it's James Trapp.

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I thought he was, I remember seeing something about


Aug 28, 2015, 12:23 PM

it when Nuke was baptized at practice.

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I could swear he was one year, there was a video about how


Aug 28, 2015, 1:23 PM

he traveled with the team and stuff.

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GO TIGERS


Might consider it if this organization will disband FOREVER.


Aug 28, 2015, 12:24 PM

Then again, HECK NO! Go away and practice your no-religion religion and leave us alone.

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Re: Clemson asked to remove its chaplain


Aug 28, 2015, 12:29 PM

The proper term is freedom of religion and that includes both practicing a religion and not practicing a religion. I get the whole separation of church and state thing, but as long as participation is not mandatory and there is no repercussion on a players playing time or scholarship then there is still freedom of religion. The reason that most of the 25 schools are in the South is because most of the recruits come from the South where religion plays a significant role in their daily lives. In addition given the demands on the players time they are just making it easier for the players to continue to participate in their religion.

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Not sure I want Trump as my next president, though


Aug 28, 2015, 12:36 PM

vote for him over any of the dems in the running. But that's one thing he's doesn't mind doing, telling someone how stupid they are
and stating opinions that many citizens wish other politicians would do. I think he tell them, no, we are keeping our chaplain and if
you are upset about it take your money elsewhere, mind your own business and leave me alone.

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Re: Not sure I want Trump as my next president, though


Aug 28, 2015, 2:08 PM

Might want to take a look at Ben Carson then, his book One Nation was an excellent read on political correctness and individual freedoms. He's been the most impressive candidate to me BY FAR.

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I hope Trump wins the Rep nomination


Aug 28, 2015, 9:14 PM [ in reply to Not sure I want Trump as my next president, though ]

and Bernie the Dem.

I am tot even bringing their views into it. I just want anything but the reg ##### on either side that just polarize us while not discussing anything of any real merit in their "debates".

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Re: I hope Trump wins the Rep nomination


Aug 28, 2015, 9:37 PM

Well, Bernie's been in it since the 1970s and has caucused with the Democratic Party the whole time, so he's anything but an outsider.

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HTH


Aug 28, 2015, 12:39 PM

First Amendment - Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


In all honesty, this whole problem is the result of Supreme Court Justices saying things are in the Constitution when there isn't. There is no reason why a Coach couldn't proselytize based on the above. In fact, if he feels that it is his religious duties to share his beliefs and isn't allowed then THAT would be unconstitutional. However, it is backwards because nobody who is affiliated with the government can even promote their religion without having an outsider be a part. All the Constitution says is CONGRESS and LAW. There is no law that Congress has made that denies religion or establishes one. However, the Supreme Court has prevented the free exercise of religion by their past decisions. Those decisions have also led to the birth of organizations like FFRF. For the record there isn't anything else about separation of church and state in the Constitution. Jefferson used the phrase in relation to the Est. clause and it is meant just to separate the government from the church. The public universities are not governments, they are merely funded by the government. Sigh, this country has lost its mind.

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Re: HTH


Aug 28, 2015, 1:17 PM

One little addition - This is the US Constitution which bans the US government from making laws. Clemson is a state institution which our founding fathers never intended to regulate.

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Proud as hell to be on the list!**********


Aug 28, 2015, 12:42 PM



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Re: Proud as hell to be on the list!**********


Aug 28, 2015, 1:18 PM

Why are we so low on the list? I want us to be #1!

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Lord, please make us free from the FFRF. That is all. Amen.


Aug 28, 2015, 1:01 PM

nm

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And people in #### want ice water, too ...


Aug 28, 2015, 2:04 PM

...as they're likely to discover one of these days.

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Looks to me like they are trying to limit the free exercise


Aug 28, 2015, 2:39 PM

of religion.

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Didn't bother to read...


Aug 28, 2015, 2:57 PM

It would be too irritating.

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Re: Clemson asked to remove its chaplain


Aug 28, 2015, 3:06 PM

It'll be a cold day in hell before our Tigers remove their Chaplain!!!

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I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 28, 2015, 6:55 PM

but I also believe in personal religious freedom and common sense. If you take their argument to it's logical conclusion then hospitals that receive public funds should not have chaplains either, nor the military or Congress. And Congress needs as many chaplains as possible in hope of developing a freaking conscience.

Go Tigers! (Amen)

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Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 28, 2015, 7:54 PM

Congress, the military and government hospitals shouldn't promote religion.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 28, 2015, 8:17 PM

Having a chaplain available is not promoting religion. Quite frankly, as a Marine sitting on a a mountain top in Viet Nam, I was happy that there was a Baptist chaplain there beside me.....until he grabbed my pistol and jumped in a fox hole as the poo-poo hit the fan...true story....but I never heard anyone complain. No one was forced to go to a chapel service during my 20 years in the Marines. What's your beef with that?

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Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 28, 2015, 8:22 PM

I don't have a beef with it. I understand why the military has chaplains.

I also understand why it's against the intent of the first amendment.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 28, 2015, 8:38 PM

Of course the first amendment says the government shall be prohibited from passing any law establishing religion or impeding the free exercise of religion. Seems like the FFR group is trying to prohibit the free exercise of it.

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Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 28, 2015, 9:58 PM

N

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 29, 2015, 12:05 AM [ in reply to Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state ]

> I don't have a beef with it. I understand why the
> military has chaplains.
>
> I also understand why it's against the intent of the
> first amendment.

You understand incorrectly. You actually couldn't be more wrong.

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Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state


Aug 28, 2015, 11:21 PM [ in reply to Re: I completely agree with separation of church and state ]

Read a bit of history. The founders regularly had Church in the Capital. Jefferson, who the courts base the wall of separation on, attended regularly. I guess the men who ratified the Constitution did not know what it meant.

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Does this pathetic organization realize...


Aug 28, 2015, 8:34 PM

That 75% of the institutions on their hit list reside in the South???

We Southerners cling to God, guns and the bible!!

While I certainly realize that Clemson University is a "Public Institution", I also realize that we are smack in the middle of the Conservative Bible Belt. And we are proud of that!!

Our very own coach, a good God-fearing man has by his own admission stated many times that he allows those students to participate in faith based activities to include prayer if THEY so choose. I would be remiss without saying that I FULLY believe that Dabo has the character and integrity enough NOT to chastise, belittle or otherwise ostracize ANY player that chooses not to participate in accordance with his own beliefs!

With that said, a teams chaplain plays an integral role in the mental and spiritual preparation of many (if not the vast majority) of ours players.

I for one sincerely hope that Clemson takes a firm stand against these PC, Liberal D-bags....and tells them in a "classy" Clemson way....to shove it!!!

Go Tigers!!!!

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Glad we made the list***


Aug 28, 2015, 9:04 PM



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Let me poise this question.....


Aug 28, 2015, 9:26 PM

if Clemson had an Islamic, Hindu, or Jewish religious person in the role of team Chaplin then would any of you object?

I have no dog in this hunt but just wanted to see this board's viewpoint regarding this hypothetical situation.

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yes, I would have a problem with that***


Aug 28, 2015, 10:11 PM



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Really? Why?***


Aug 28, 2015, 11:13 PM



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Re: Let me poise this question.....


Aug 28, 2015, 10:31 PM [ in reply to Let me poise this question..... ]

I wouldn't object. As long as the person can connect with players on a spiritual level - no matter their own beliefs - they can serve the purpose of a chaplain.

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Cool.


Aug 28, 2015, 11:03 PM

I agree.

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I am sure the guy that gunned down the reporters would agree


Aug 28, 2015, 10:09 PM

with them.

That is just the kind of people they are.

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So "in God we don't trust" is how our currency should read? Gov makes those decisions, right?


Aug 28, 2015, 10:51 PM

Prob where these clowns should start their mission to attack religion.

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Re: So "in God we don't trust" is how our currency should read? Gov makes those decisions, right?


Aug 28, 2015, 11:17 PM

But then again, money (or dollar bills which read "in God we trust") and publicity or acknowledgement (think of decent looking fat girls who post a gazillion selfies per day at angles desigbed to trick the untrained eye into believing their what would be decent looking face 30 lbs ago, that they really are hot stuff) is ultimately what these hodge podge queers (weirdos) are in search of. Money and attention.

Guarantee you they won't get it from any media outlet in being the latest in an overcapacitated pool of failures to attack the government on the dollar bill issue.

However, they will get what thay so desperately seek: attention and the resulting false sense of self worth that follows from attacking every piwer 5 school in the southeast with a chaplain.

If 3/4ths of my professors at Clemson didn't make it their life's purpose to discredit my Christian beliefs, this might be a story. But the kids need somewhere to go, some sort of outlet, to be reminded that they're more important than the awesome plants, etc.. "that have proved to evolve in much more an impressive fashion than humans" Not making that up.

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As long as the Chaplin has the wisdom and maturity


Aug 28, 2015, 11:12 PM

to embrace ALL religious beliefs (even if different then their own) then I see no problem with a team Chaplin and , in fact, is a good thing.

I hope everyone here feels that this tolerance is an inalienable right for all Americans.

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