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CU Guru [1536]
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Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 9:28 AM
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I for one am of the younger generation that loves to hop on the fire the coach bandwagon but I am not normally like that...I feel Jack has made a huge contribution to Clemson University but sometimes the game just passes you. I just think it is time to move on, I mean when is the last time we have been watching this team and you thought that we had a chance to beat maybe a little more talented team when it mattered? Its been a while for me and as a die hard Clemson fan and graduate that loves baseball it is tough to watch...and another thing that really gets under my skin is hearing these ppl say that you cant make "knee jerk" firings in baseball well I am sorry but seems to me those ppl are just ignorant or borderline idiots if you cannot see the steady decline of this program...baseball has always been a sport we could rely on to uphold a winning tradition now it is more like who are we going to lose to next or just expecting to lose series against lower opponents and to me that is a problem. And if we are being completely honest I think we should have done a lot better with some of the teams that Jack has put on the field...how many world series rings do we have again? Exactly I just think a guy that has never won the big games gets too many chances in my opinion...GO TIGERS!
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Rock Defender [57]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 11:35 AM
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I agree. After 20 years, a change is needed. He had a great run and there is no need to hang his head. At some point, the game passes everyone by.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 11:45 AM
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just wondering, how does a game that hasnt changed in over 100 years pass somebody by. the guy from rice is 80 years old. has it passed him by also. how bout mike martin. how bout every other coach that has been at their school for a long time. there is plenty wrong with our baseball team right now but some of the stuff you read on here is just laughable at best.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 1:50 PM
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If you do not think the game of baseball has changed over 20 years you seriously need to think about watching or attending some more games...I am 27 years old and played my whole life including a couple years of JUCO and it has changed dramatically in those few years....bats, balls, pitching, recruits, that is an ignorant statement. I mean a small example would be that Jack recruits the same build and stature kids he has his whole career and I am sorry but you have to have a couple guys that are HR threats at least and we don't anymore...he recruits "small ball" players that cant play small ball LOL My point was that the game does change but he cant seem to catch up with it...I just think his time has passed and he is slipping...You cant deny B Bowden was a great coach the game just slipped by him...I cant put my finger on it if its player development or recruiting or what but he is missing on just about everything...even our pitchers seem worse the longer they stay in the program
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 1:59 PM
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THE "GAME" ITSELF HAS NOT CHANGED ONE BIT. if you would like me to post a roster i can show you where you are wrong about sizes also. every infielder we have is now over 6 foot tall. that has changed dramatically with lecroys recruiting. what really gets me is the size and "we dont recruit instate" players. there is plenty wrong with this team but please come up with actual things that it could be.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:14 PM
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I am not talking about actual heights of players come on...I am saying that kids lifting weights is a huge difference and these kids just get stronger and stronger but it seems like the players we get never get there like some of the other programs we face...I never made the SC argument I could give two $hits where a player is from if he can play...I think we have a problem with development and talent recognition and that my friend is all coaching
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball and JL ] |
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Saw a great point on here yesterday I believe...the game is more about coaching and preparation now more than ever and not just a guy that can pop a ball up and it carry our of the ballpark...notice the trend in our W/L and when the bats and balls changed? We move that plate out and I think we have less HRs this year than last LOL the game and the players change, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, DiMaggio and some of the other greats would not have been anything normal players in todays game...they never had to hit a change up or curveball...pitching is a million times better today than back then so saying the game doesn't change it very dumb
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:03 PM
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rotflmfao. average players huh. now there is a kneeslapper. those guys were playing with equipment that players today would laugh at, in old ballparks that were canyons. i know you are 27 and have seen it all but come on man.
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Rock Defender [65]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:12 PM
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Come on D. He played JUCO.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:13 PM
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THAT GUY LOST ALL CREDIBILITY WHEN HE SAID MAYS, RUTH AND DIMAGGIO WOULD BE AVERAGE PLAYERS TODAY. SMH
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:17 PM
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I am not saying they wouldn't be great players I am just saying they would not have the numbers they had in todays game...I mean the evolution of pitching is so far ahead of hitting its not funny I mean you have a cutter, curveball, and most important a changeup that those guys never had to prepare for so you really sound ignorant saying that...maybe average was not the right usage being that average no days is about .250 it seems lol but they would not have been the guys that we talk about now
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:19 PM
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believe what you will. smfh.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:29 PM
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I think they are some of the greats of all time...and deservingly so I am just saying sports change and evolve, just go to a high school baseball or football game and you tell me what you see.... I am just saying things are different and athletes are just getting stronger and faster decade by decade and that's a fact no believing anything...guys that set all these records deserve all the recognition and my favorite athletes are all old HOF guys just saying the games change over time and you have to be able to adapt to that change or get left behind...Example JL
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:32 PM
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This is what you said.
," Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, DiMaggio and some of the other greats would not have been anything normal players in todays game...they never had to hit a change up or curveball...pitching is a million times better today than back then so saying the game doesn't change it very dumb"
And all you have been doing since is back peddling.
Sorry.. Mile and DeRob are right... no cred no more.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:48 PM
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ok so the question is what argument do you have that these players in a totally different era of the game could do the same thing they did 70 and 80 years ago to the pitching of today....you guys are making for a comical day....have any of you ever seen a live pitch other than being tossed during a coaches pitch game...come on guys this is ridiculous to say that they could do the same in todays game
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:56 PM
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SO, YOU DONT THINK WITH THE SAME FACILITIES, THE SAME WEIGHT ROOMS, THE SAME DIETS, THE SAME STEROIDS, THE SAME EVERYTHING GOING FOR TODAYS PLAYERS THOSE GUYS WOULD STILL BE AVERAGE. YOU SIR ARE THE ONE THAT IS COMICAL. OR MAYBE JUST AN IDIOT.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 3:06 PM
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Yes but you are in favor and making points towards my argument lol I am saying without all that they wouldn't do what they did today...I am saying if you could take them from there day and face a years worth of pitching today on what they trained for and the pitching they saw every day they couldn't do , not saying they wouldn't be good ball players I just don't think they put up the same numbers...that's almost common sense...what do you think guys like Verlander, kimbrel, Rivera, etc would have done to hitters back then used to seeing 80-85 mph fastballs and not near the breaking or changeups LOL
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Rock Defender [66]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 3:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball and JL ] |
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George Mikan is the most dominant basketball player ever. He or Wilt. Neither would hold a candle to Lebron or Durant. Things change. Sports science improves. Babe wouldn't be as good as Bonds and it's not close (obviously Bonds cheated, but the point remains).
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 4:10 PM
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THANK YOU!!! But we are the ignorant idiotic ones these people have no idea what they are talking or they are 90 years old and cant accept the fact that sports are evolving and todays athlete is much bigger stronger and faster than those of earlier...and baseball especially has changed with the power pitchers we have now that can throw 95-98 from 1st inning to 9th(Verlander) I don't get how ppl can even sit there and think that those guys could do the same thing, not taking anything away from what they were able to do in their era but come on...
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All-TigerNet [11024]
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Any credibility you might have enjoyed
May 12, 2014, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball and JL ] |
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you lost with this statement....
," Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, DiMaggio and some of the other greats would not have been anything normal players in todays game...they never had to hit a change up or curveball...pitching is a million times better today than back then so saying the game doesn't change it very dumb"
I cant tell you how stupid this is....
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Legend [19352]
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 2:44 PM
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HAHA smh
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball and JL ] |
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him by other than some changes in it where I am sure he can adapt to unless he lets his bull headiness continue to over rule what sanity he has left. He simply is not getting the ball players or is getting too many players of the same mold. Diversify. He has not had a real power hitter since Parker--unless you include Brad. Like an old carburetor, he has tried to fine tune it to where it will not run. Bring some excitement back to game. Personlly,I think that he should have been fired 3 or 4 years ago.
Recruit a copy of poser hitters, two or three left-handed pitchers and hire competent assistants who can recognize talent.and coach it. All of the money, in the baseball program need not go to him. You pay for what get. The UVA coach recognized this and corrected it . Dabo diid the same. JL biggest deficiency is his personality and lack of report with most hs coaches.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 3:36 PM
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i can agree with that...I see what you mean maybe its just Jack being hard headed def but I mean at some point you have to have atleast one or two power guys in the lineup that people are going to fear or atleast pitch around sometimes then you have baserunners too...I mean there is absolutely no one that is scary in our line up and hasn't been since Parker like you said and he really wasn't the same as Boyd, Baker, Greene and those guys. Especially with the bats today you need a couple guys that are threats to hit it out...it seems like once we get behind that's it we are done...I know ppl don't want to hear this but USCjr always has a couple guys that no matter if they are down by 3 or 4 runs with one swing can get em back into a game.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 3:50 PM
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WE HAVE HIT 22 home runs. the acc leader, wake has hit 27. fsu has hit 23. our park is bigger than most and the wind usually blows in. once again, another idiotic statement by you. here is a question. how many would we have hit had we played in small frye all year. you just keep saying stuff that is dumber every time you post.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 3:59 PM
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the problem is you twist things the way you want to hear it I am not saying we NEVER hit HRs we cant hit period...yea we also led the ACC in average up until a few weeks ago...where did that get us LOL name a game changing HR ...go...Ill wait, saying our guys cant hit when it matters and yea we may hit a few here and there but they never matter in big games when we get down its over
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed ] |
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And I am glad you are happy with 22 HRs which might I add is only 94th best overall...so good logic im the dumb one here? You compared three other teams LOL
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 4:13 PM
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I AM NOT HAPPY WITH anything this team has done this year. they are a bunch of underachievers. but it sure as hell has nothing to do with the game passing coach leggett by or any of the other idiotic blathering you have spewed.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 4:19 PM
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By that I simply mean that I think he has lost it...whatever fire he may have had or maybe he has lost the ability to notice good baseball players now which in my mind is a recruiting flaw and I don't think the players get any better from day one to graduation...take it how you want its just my way of saying something is not the same with the guy, I think the game is ever so slightly evolving and he is not willing to change the way he coaches or recruits what is so hard to understand that...recruiting is a perfect example he has obviously MISSED on a lot of guys
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed ] |
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Question for you...why do you think FSU went downhill, Penn State with Paterno, etc...you think those guys were just amazing coaches and were hitting all the right buttons then just all of a sudden started losing for no reason? If you want a good example look over in the $hit Hole in Columbia to see that Spurrier has changed his offense bc he knows the athletes he has and cant do what he did at Florida and all there...great coach and he adapted and relied on an actual running game..LOL why did he suck in the NFL, one of the all time great college coaches along with Saban?? Bc the game is different way different even between those two levels, called adapting and Jack cant do it
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed
May 12, 2014, 4:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: I have never really liked JL. The game has not passed ] |
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And if you are fine with being compared to those teams then we should just take the OMAHA off the back of the hats if we are just trying to keep up with everyone else...that's not CU baseball like I remember from when I was younger...which I don't think they deserve to have it on their hats now anyways its almost a joke waiting to be told
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Legend [19576]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 3:41 PM
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 3:45 PM
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isn't showing up
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 4:15 PM
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No real offense intended here - but IMO, I have little interest in watching CLEMSON baseball or basketball. Both have similar results - be it coaching or recruiting or the opponents used heated bats. Whatever - it makes cheering very difficult as they tend to lose as much as they win against average teams, and lose more than they win against good teams. Amiright?? Yes I am.
Football is our only really competitive sport remaining of the big 3, and we've lost 5-in-a-row to our in-state rival. So dang - it ain't pretty. Our saving grace is winning bowl games against quality teams and having great records in FB. Let's hope Dabo and Co. keep us afloat until we can fix our other problems.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: Clemson Baseball and JL
May 12, 2014, 4:22 PM
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I would agree with you there especially in basketball but we have always had a traditionally pretty good baseball team that we were always playing for Omaha up until 5 or 6 years ago now its just who are we going to lose to next...and ill be the first to admit if USC was in the same position it wouldn't be near as bad for Jack but unfortunately they have passed us so fast in baseball its not even funny, and the fact we cant beat them in football sucks too which I think is all about to change this year.
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CU Guru [1464]
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Deroberts, JL hasn't forgot how to coach but I think as he's
May 12, 2014, 10:12 PM
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aged maybe he doesn't connect with the millennialist very well. If you don't understand today's kids it's harder to teach them. Lecroy has been successful as a recruiter partially because of his age. The equipment change has certainly hurt us a lot too because haven't been a fundamentally good team so we've failed to consistently manufacture runs. We used to just mash the ball in the peak years. Now we can't get a bunt down or sac fly to score a runner from 3rd. That's coaching.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Recruitying, coaching whatever, Jack Leggett is not
May 12, 2014, 10:39 PM
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getting it done. I predicted at the first of the season that this team did not have it but was derided by the same Leggett apologists, Some have their heads so far up coaches ##### that they do not want to see their failures. Jack has been paid well. Too well for he has done in the last few years. Just how long do you keep someone who continues to back up? I'll bet that your employer would soon forget what you did 15 yrs ago if you had screwed up the last five years. Cut bait and move on.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re:Recruitying, coaching whatever, Jack Leggett is not
May 13, 2014, 8:41 AM
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That is the most frustrating part to me...we have always been a pretty good fundamentally sound team and we cant bunt or do the small things right like a pitcher covering first and things like that...clutch hitting is also a huge problem, the guys cant get it done or make the plays when it counts now...and to me that is partly coaching and in my opinion some recruiting...I still think this team has the talent to be a very good team they have shown signs of it this year but that is not CU baseball. I just think its time for some new blood to get the program ramped up again, I mean the fans don't even show up like they used to
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re:Recruitying, coaching whatever, Jack Leggett is not
May 13, 2014, 8:44 AM
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61 POSTS AND 60 of them yesterday. we all get it. you dont like jack and willie mays is average. give it a rest.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re:Recruitying, coaching whatever, Jack Leggett is not
May 13, 2014, 9:00 AM
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you have an issue with twisting things haha never said he was average just said he would have been in today's game...but he didn't play today he played back then and is one of the greats and I am not arguing that I think all of those guys are...so we also get that you like to read things how you like to hear them as well....move along
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Hoss, you can hammer JL all you want to but lay off
May 13, 2014, 1:32 PM
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Willie. 16 golden gloves and remember he played 4 yrs. in the black leagues before coming to the majors. Heck, I would bet that he would have 20 if not for that. The same with Ted Williams. After batting .407 and.356 in 1941 and 42 he spent three years in the marine corps before returning to the majors.
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re:Hoss, you can hammer JL all you want to but lay off
May 13, 2014, 6:24 PM
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I am not on Willie lol was just throwing a couple names out there and we were talking about hitting not fielding.... One of the greatest hitters of our era one the batting title with a .344 average you honestly believe those guys could come in today's era and hit .407 or hell even .344 with that many hrs consistently?? Come on man I'm not saying they would be .150 hitters but come on pitching is way more dominant now
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re:Hoss, you can hammer JL all you want to but lay off
May 13, 2014, 6:25 PM
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Won**
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re:Recruitying, coaching whatever, Jack Leggett is not
May 13, 2014, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to Re:Recruitying, coaching whatever, Jack Leggett is not ] |
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And also I apologize for not being a pro message boarder like yourself, maybe I will be as cool and reach your level one day
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