All-In [33313]
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Since Catahoula wants me to stick to policy - I will
[2]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:12 PM
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What about the kids in cages at the border? Is that only bad when the Orange man does it or does Biden get a free pass on this one because his buddy Barry built the cages in the first place?
Catahoula®
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All-In [38049]
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and.....are there kids in cages now? cause
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:17 PM
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I haven't heard a darn thing on that front. he has had time to sign paper, has he sent the master lock codes to open up the cages?
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All-In [33313]
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Catahoula be like, "I want to talk policy"
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:22 PM
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And then when policy gets brought up..
Catahoula:
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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I just responded to you, dumb ###.***
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:22 PM
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All-In [33313]
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lmao
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:24 PM
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Got you to name call. Glad I'm up in those feels. Took about a day.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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It's a personal flaw I have.
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:27 PM
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When people act stupid, I have a hard time not pointing it out to them.
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Orange Blooded [2202]
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clemsonrulez08 = MiuraTiger
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:01 PM
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It's getting hard to tell the two of you apart! You children will never be taken seriously if you actually post #### like "got you to name call".
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All-In [28285]
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clemsonrulez08 = MiuraTiger + hurt feelings
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 5:15 PM
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FIFY
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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I'm glad you asked.
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:21 PM
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It's bad when any presidential administration does it. Period. End of discussion. Anyone who tried to defend it under any president needs to grow TF up.
So, to the points:
1. If your first response to criticism of Trump's policy was, "but whatabout ClintonBushObama!", this is akin to you getting caught taking a giant #### on someone's porch and then arguing that the three guys before you did it, too.
2. In Trump's case, he took that giant turd and smeared it all over the house. Where he changed the policy was the zero tolerance measure, something Sessions made clear was for punitive purposes. As with most decisions with the Trump admin, the cruelty was the point. So it was bad before Trump. Trump intentionally made it worse because he's just a buffoon who thinks cruelty solves problems.
3. If Biden isn't sending people down to the border right this very second to put an end to it, then #### him too. And what should happen is criminal charges for those "just following orders" so it'll scare the #### out of any immigration official from doing it again.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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All-In [33313]
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I just haven't seen your open criticism of it
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:23 PM
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Just like you were so quick to make threads openly criticizing Republican leaders you did not like. Stick to the hard hitting call outs and don't make me have to do it for you.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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You could attempt having a better memory...
[3]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:26 PM
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And not acting stupid. I was very vocal against it back when the policy came out and I denounced the practice under previous admins. Trump just made it much, much worse.
In the last 24 hours, you have quickly made strides on NC_Tiger_ and Miura as P&R's dumbest poster. Ease up on the stick. Listen. I know. I torched you on the Arlington thread yesterday. People usually grasp and start posts about me when I do that to them.
Let me guess. You supported the cage thing.
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All-In [33313]
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This isn't about the Arlington thing
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:28 PM
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I still stand by everything I said, and I think it was a misunderstanding between you and I. No hard feelings there.
Cages are bad, but I don't think putting them up at the Plaza is going to help stop illegal immigration.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Re: This isn't about the Arlington thing
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:31 PM
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Yeah, it is (Arlington).
How about this novel concept? Don't separate children from their parents as a way to punish the parents for coming to America. Detain them together. It's easy.
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All-In [33313]
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I promise you
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:38 PM
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It's not about any other post. At all. You gotta trust me on this one. I'm a lot of things. I am not a liar though.
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Orange Blooded [3040]
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Re: This isn't about the Arlington thing
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:42 PM
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So rulz, what would you do with families that enter the country seeking asylum ??
It's easy to grouse about a problem. It is much harder to come up with a solution.
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All-In [33313]
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Go to a port of entry. Dont slip through a fence and
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:43 PM
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hide until you get caught. It's pretty straight forward.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Except...
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:49 PM
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That wasn't the case under Trump's policy. Even if you tried to enter at a legal port of entry to seek asylum, you were still torn from your kids.
Here. Check it out before you respond.
But a Guatemalan mother named Sandy tells a different story on this week's episode of Reveal, in partnership with The Texas Tribune. After years of threats and harassment from gangs and local police in her hometown of Mazatenango, Sandy fled with her four kids and attempted to enter the U.S. legally in May. She requested asylum for her and her children at an international bridge connecting Brownsville and Matamoros, Mexico.
The bridge is an official port of entry into the U.S., and Sessions himself has encouraged migrant families to cross the border this way — rather than crossing the border illegally — in order to avoid being separated.
But Sandy was separated from her children — all young boys, one just a few months old — anyway.
https://www.texastribune.org/2018/10/02/why-did-trump-administration-separate-asylum-seekers-their-kids//static.texastribune.org/media/files/e8d9c00d6ade7ddc30b04f9e7a458f70/Hilda_1_LEAD_ART_TT.jpg) Why did the Trump administration separate asylum-seekers from their kids? The federal government claims that it separated thousands of migrant kids from their parents for one reason: The parents broke the law by entering the U.S. illegally. But the account of a Guatemalan mother named Sandy, told in this week's episode of Reveal in partnership with the Texas Tribune, tells a different story. Why did the Trump administration separate asylum-seekers from their kids? The federal government claims that it separated thousands of migrant kids from their parents for one reason: The parents broke the law by entering the U.S. illegally. But the account of a Guatemalan mother named Sandy, told in this week's episode of Reveal in partnership with the Texas Tribune, tells a different story. Why did the Trump administration separate asylum-seekers from their kids? The federal government claims that it separated thousands of migrant kids from their parents for one reason: The parents broke the law by entering the U.S. illegally. But the account of a Guatemalan mother named Sandy, told in this week's episode of Reveal in partnership with the Texas Tribune, tells a different story. Why did the Trump administration separate asylum-seekers from their kids? The federal government claims that it separated thousands of migrant kids from their parents for one reason: The parents broke the law by entering the U.S. illegally. But the account of a Guatemalan mother named Sandy, told in this week's episode of Reveal in partnership with the Texas Tribune, tells a different story.
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Oculus Spirit [75558]
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Terrible situation....exception or norm?***
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 5:27 PM
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110%er [7339]
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If you're short-sighted, you bring up the cages. If you
[3]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:26 PM
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want to talk actual policy, you need to discuss the family separation policy introduced in 2018. That's the issue. And there are still children that have yet to be reunited with their parents because of it.
In you Jesus-lovin' heart, can you think of anything that could be more cruel to a family?
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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That's what these clowns forget is the point
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:29 PM
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It was a faulty, bad policy under previous presidents. Trump looked at it and said, "Ooo, here's how we make it much more cruel."
Anyone who attempts to defend is a bad person, period, and certainly can't claim to be a Christian.
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Oculus Spirit [75558]
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Legit, non-gotcha question for you.
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:32 PM
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If you think we need to curtail illegal immigration (and you may not, I don't recall), what is the solution for families (legit or fake) traveling with children, if we agree (and again, we may not) that simply letting them go and asking them to come back to court often results in them not coming back and simply blending into the background in the USA?
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Re: Legit, non-gotcha question for you.
[2]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:39 PM
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Good question, and yeah, I'm not in favor of "open borders" for a variety of reasons.
If they seek asylum and do it the right way (or, examine case by case to see if it's legit even if they didn't follow protocol), process them accordingly. Together.
If it's simple illegal immigration, detain them together. Send them back if possible. Under the previous admins, children were separated from adults when it couldn't be determined that they were related and they were trying to place them. Under Trump, they said no matter what, we're taking your kid. Asylum. Actually their parents. Everyone.
But I'll risk a family getting away with it any day and blending in than tearing some toddler away from his mother. And putting him in a chainlink pen.
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Oculus Spirit [75558]
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All good answers—-the quandary as I see it
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:11 PM
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Is that when families with kids get preferential treatment at border crossing time, we just made immigrant kids the TSA precheck of border crossing. If a policy that separates even one toddler from their parents on this side of the border is wrong, than so is a policy that causes even one toddler to be kidnapped or purchased from their parents to ease entry.
It’s the definition of dammmed if you do and dammmed if you don’t.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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I get the risk.
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:16 PM
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I understand the door it opens. But I'd rather risk that than have one innocent child ripped from his or her mother.
And again, under the Trump policy, it was done to those who sought asylum through legal means.
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Oculus Spirit [75558]
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Again though,
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 5:26 PM
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ICE's system here isn't perfect, but I'd rather have a child detained here than with a coyote I suppose.
Not advocating for that option so much as saying I don't like either option as we are creating stress and trauma here by being tough, and potentially worse situations for kids south of the border by being weak.
I think you're closest to the solution by discussing detainment together. Seems like a logistical nightmare though, but so is the whole situation. Much would be helped by actually putting some teeth to penalties applied to illegal employers. The job seekers and opportunists would decrease quite a bit due to lack of demand, and the percentage of those who were actual asylum qualifiers would go up quite a bit.
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All-In [33313]
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I can, actually
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:30 PM
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Making a family pay you money in exchange for your to illegally smuggle them across a border, knowing #### well the chance of them getting caught and separated is high.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Let's say you have 10 cases of what you described
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:32 PM
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And one case of a mother with her toddler.
Still want to keep the policy?
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Orange Blooded [4198]
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Re: Let's say you have 10 cases of what you described
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:38 PM
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Yes, I still want the policy. Let them apply for citizenship like people from other countries have to.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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So, by your logic...
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:41 PM
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If you haven't applied for citizenship (which takes years), you lose your child and the little kid goes in a chainlink pen?
Makes sense.
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All-In [33313]
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If you think about it
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:42 PM
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None of that has to happen if you don't break a law.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Name the laws the children broke.***
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:45 PM
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All-In [33313]
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Improper Entry is the crime
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:47 PM
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Why are you tossing me softballs?
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Orange Blooded [4198]
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Re: Improper Entry is the crime
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:48 PM
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Bingo rulez!
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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All-In [33313]
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Re: Improper Entry is the crime
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:52 PM
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All-In [33313]
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Yep
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:39 PM
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I think the quote goes, "actions have consequences"
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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That's what I thought.
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:40 PM
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Tearing a toddler away from his mother. Definitely seems like the appropriate punishment.
I don't know if you're one of the people on this board who claims to be a Christian, but if you are, don't ever claim it again.
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All-In [33313]
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Telling me I cannot be a follower of a religion
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:41 PM
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Seem's pretty sinny of you.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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I'm sinny AF
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:46 PM
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But by God/Odin/Zeus/Allah/whatever TF is up there, I never advocated for putting little children in cages.
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All-In [33313]
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Following the laws of the land you live in is biblical
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:48 PM
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The Bible speaks decisively to this issue. Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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You probably don't want to get into...
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:54 PM
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A scripture pissing match with me on this one.
Matthew 18:5: "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me..."
Just because it's a law doesn't mean it is just. This case is indefensible. You are trying to focus on the law breaking of the parent (or, in many cases under Trump, still done legally) while ignoring the plight of the child.
It's very easy not to cause that harm to them but you're defending it. So no, that's not the trait of a "Christian".
Except the ones who like to overlook the Christ parts.
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110%er [7339]
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Not to mention Isaiah covered that topic a while back,
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:01 PM
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but who liked him anyway?
Something about woe to those making unjust laws and issuing oppressive decrees. I ain't takin' the time to look it up, but it's there.
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All-In [33313]
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What's it like
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:02 PM
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Allowing a 31 year old to get into your head like I have today?
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Dang...
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:10 PM
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You're over 30 and you behave like this?
I would have pegged you for much younger.
If by getting in my head you mean acting like a raging buffoon for the last 24 hours (presumably because you're very upset the Trumpdom is over), tripping over your own ideology and logic, embarrassing yourself in the Arlington thread, going on a weird rant about the VP's living arrangements, getting shredded so bad in all of your posts that you now grasp for a call-out post for me on kids in cages, and then further embarrassing yourself by actually defending the policy while at the same time still claiming you're a Christian...
Yeah. I guess you got me. Gold star for you. Good luck with everything. You're gonna need it.
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All-TigerNet [10280]
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Re: Since Catahoula wants me to stick to policy - I will
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:38 PM
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I think people need to recognize the following:
1) We have an existing process for becoming a legal US citizen. Trump was only enforcing existing immigration law. He didn’t create any.
2) Trump offered the Dreamers the best deal ever and that was declined because the Dems (and some Pubs) didn’t want comprehensive reform which included money for the wall.
3) There are tons of immigrants who abuse the asylum process and are here only for a job, not persecution.
4) These same people use children as a Trojan horse to get them all into the country. These kids are separated in a lot of cases for their own protection and legally required supervision while their criminal parents are being processed.
5) All of the above could be avoided if people just stuck to #1. People need to put the blame where it belongs...on the people breaking the law. Also, this problem won’t be resolved until both parties get past their own selfish reasons for not addressing it. Until that time, it was proven that Trump’s enforcement of existing immigration law was reducing illegal border crossings as intended.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Nope.
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:45 PM
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1. You can't become a legal U.S. citizen overnight. We're talking immediate moments at the border. Trump wasn't enforcing an existing policy. He took a bad policy and amped it up even more as a punitive deterrent. He thought the cruelty would scare parents from coming to America, which isn't ever really how that works.
2. He wanted to deport them.
3. There are. There are plenty who didn't, and it isn't worth putting kids in cages to catch the bad adults.
4. Some do. Many don't. That's all that matters. They USED to be separated for their protection. Trump ended that.
5. Those little children didn't break #1. Why should they be punished?
And before you flip out in a response, you'll notice I didn't insult you anywhere.
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All-TigerNet [10280]
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Re: Nope.
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:53 PM
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Not flipping out and I appreciate your response. We just don’t agree as to the root of the problem.
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Hall of Famer [21509]
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Is it difficult for us to agree...
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:54 PM
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That little kids shouldn't be torn from their parents and put in cages, regardless of the law or the president in charge?
Seems like easy common ground to me.
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Orange Blooded [3040]
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Re: Since Catahoula wants me to stick to policy - I will
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:48 PM
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Look, whatever your stance on immigration policy, surely America is too good a country to be purposely breaking up families. Whatever you think we should do with these human beings should be done in a humane fashion - families or not.
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All-TigerNet [10280]
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Re: Since Catahoula wants me to stick to policy - I will
[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 3:56 PM
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I’d be in favor of immediately turning them all around and kicking them out. However, since a minority portion of them have a legitimate asylum reason, we’re required to sort through all of them. When you have tens of thousands illegally cross the border at one time, sometimes logistics aren’t pretty. Unfortunately we can’t provide a Holiday Inn Express for them all to stay in. I will also guarantee that any accommodations we provided here are better than what they left.
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All-In [47813]
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Re: Since Catahoula wants me to stick to policy - I will
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 5:32 PM
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You and I agree on this issue.
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