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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 9:49 AM
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I'm a bit tangent to the point of his post so I started another thread.
UGA and Bama are both rated just under a 50% chance to make the playoff. That made me consider last year's circumstances. Bama beat UGA and didn't win their division or championship. How do you think that would have gone had they been taxed with winning the conference championship and playing UGA then? I know this is beaten to death but there's another pertinent bit of information.
This is the most flawed thing about the 4 team playoff system. That extra week for a non conference winner puts someone in the playoffs that should have been previously eliminated. Yeah, that's beaten to death but the fact that some team from some other conference should have been in the playoff.
If this is about money it's working.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 10:06 AM
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The whole system seems flawed. I don't have the solutions though.
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Letterman [294]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 10:18 AM
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I don't think you can move it to 8 and make it any better. The best thing I can think of is that all the Power 5 conference champions are automatically in the playoffs. Then use the committee to rank them 1-5. 4-5 play each other in a play-in game, then the rest of the playoffs continue as they have the last few years.
This solves all ills in my opinion. You must play well during the season and win your conference's biggest game to earn the right to play for the title. Every Power 5 team has a chance to win their own division, and any team can get bad luck on a cross-divisional matchup.
This also prevents double representation and seeding issues within the playoff itself. Like last year (and 2012), it makes 0 sense that a team who can't win their division should be eligible for a national title.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 11:19 AM
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I would like this proposal if it was the top 5 teams and not tied to a championship. Then make the 4-5 team a play in game. Then the top 3 teams get rewarded.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 8:54 PM
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I like it tied to championships. Seems like the natural next step from a conference championship to the NC. I feel like that’s why the SEC benefited for so long because they were perceived as the premier conference...even years undeservedly so. Some of those teams benefited from a perception that wasn’t so. The goal for everyone should be to win your division, win your conference. If you can’t accomplish that, then you had your chance. You shouldn’t get second chances...I don’t care how good your team is. Bama benefited greatly by NOT playing in their conference championship, resting and game planing, and that feels absurd. If you can get in without wining your division, without winning your conference, then what’s the point?
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Legend [16251]
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I think 8 would be better if the CCG's were eliminated
Aug 8, 2018, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind. ] |
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altogether and replaced with a quarterfinal. Regular season champs of P5's get auto bid + 3 at-large.
Move the round (Conference Champions Round) to 2nd week of Dec. Losers fill spots in NY6 games, winners to semis. This allows roughly 2 weeks from last game to 1st round and close to 3 weeks before semis and other NY6 games.
No divisions = better regular season games overall IMO.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: I think 8 would be better if the CCG's were eliminated
Aug 8, 2018, 8:48 PM
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Then you would have 3 SEC teams
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Legend [16251]
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Last year, yes. ACC would have had 2 and 1 for the rest.***
Aug 8, 2018, 8:53 PM
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110%er [6098]
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I’ll give you the all conferences aren’t equal argument,
Aug 8, 2018, 5:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind. ] |
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because they are not. Heck, the divisions aren’t equal. I think the two best teams have faced each other in 3 of the 4 years of the playoff era. You can make an argument all 4 years pitted the best teams. That was the goal and I think the committe has achevied the goal. Just because everyone hates Alabama, doesn’t mean they aren’t the best.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Legend [17599]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 10:16 AM
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Valid point. The extra rest and preparation made a big difference. Bama knee to prep for Clemson while we played ACC championship.
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Legend [16251]
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Plus, the ACCCG was in effect a 'play out' game for us.
Aug 8, 2018, 12:21 PM
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Lose and we're out of the CFP. A Miami win would likely have left them, and the ACC for that matter, out altogether.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I was more focused on the team that won their conference.
Aug 8, 2018, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind. ] |
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The big issue is the money. The SEC got twice as much as the other participants excluding shared money.
I never thought it would happen. Saban couldn't have scripted it better. I don't know who would have won the CCG but I'm sure only one team would advance to the playoff. Imo, Bama only played 3 teams last season. AU, UGAy and Clemson. Heck, all the talk was a late season loss would end anyone's run.
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Letterman [294]
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Re: I was more focused on the team that won their conference.
Aug 8, 2018, 3:47 PM
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Well said. This was the issue I had with those against "conference chanters". Why would you root against free money for your university? SEC was almost guaranteed 2 teams in the BCS every year, and ESPN hyped them up even more saying they deserved up to 5 some years. Now they are back to cashing in.
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Orange Blooded [2459]
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4 teams only works IF they use the regular season as round 1
Aug 8, 2018, 10:17 AM
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and make teams actually earn their way on the field and not by reputation or even eye test. Allowing a team who did NOTHING to deserve to be given a spot while others are playing to Earn a spot is giving an advantage to that team for losing - total sham what happened last season.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Everyone's opinion of "nothing" is different
Aug 8, 2018, 12:11 PM
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Vegas still thought Bama was the best team in the country going into the playoff last year and gave them the best odds to win it. Numerous talking heads still thought they were the best team and picked them to win the playoff. A lot of advanced metrics still had them at #1 even after losing to Auburn.
There's always going to be a difference between the best team and the most accomplished team and that's where most of the debate begins.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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All-TigerNet [10635]
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Re: 4 teams only works IF they use the regular season as round 1
Aug 8, 2018, 6:46 PM
[ in reply to 4 teams only works IF they use the regular season as round 1 ] |
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I think you are correct. It was sort of a situation where the best team in the country (arguably Bama) was not one of the four most deserving teams to be in the CFP. I have always contended that if the goal is to find the best team in college football, the all you really have to do is make sure that the top two teams are in, as in theory one of them will win it all, whether it be semi-finales, like us last year, or the finals like the past two years. But having one team sit out while the other teams play a conference championship is inherently not fair whether that team is the best team in the country or not
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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I think the system works fine
Aug 8, 2018, 11:02 AM
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OK if a conference gets 2 teams in. I think they've identified the best 4 teams every year - and obviously leaving Alabama out last year would mean leaving out the best team.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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We shouldn't know that.
Aug 8, 2018, 3:30 PM
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Of course Bama was the better team with so long to rest, heal, plan and prepare.
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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Re: We shouldn't know that.
Aug 8, 2018, 4:09 PM
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I think the extra rest is overblown. We had a full month to rest / recuperate. Bama had an extra week.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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The straw that broke the camel's back was overblown too.
Aug 8, 2018, 8:02 PM
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A week then was exactly like a week now. 7 days.
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Legend [16251]
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The best part so far about the CFP is it hasn't left a team
Aug 8, 2018, 7:49 PM
[ in reply to I think the system works fine ] |
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deserving of the 1 or 2 spot out so far, by the looks of it. That's where the BCS system really came up short IMO over the years. There may be debate about #4 but not much so much about at least two in front, and that's a colossal improvement.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 11:10 AM
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Totally agree with what everyone is saying but as the last post suggested, it hasn’t happened yet but one day you’ll have a conference champ that’s a usuck or zona etc that’s 8-4 but a conference championship.
That’s where it falls apart. Or maybe an odd year where you have two low ranked conference champions and a one loss #4 team is left out.
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Letterman [294]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 1:05 PM
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That's a fair point, but that's one reason college sports, particularly football, get a bad rap nationally. It's dumb having writers, coaches, and committees tell you who they think are the best teams. We already have the teams playing real games, and if they don't win those games, why should they be allowed to play further?
This whole process of a bracket is based on winning to advance, why shouldn't that apply to the regular season too? So what if an 8-4 team makes the CFP? If they won their conference title, they got there fair and square. Blame the conference for being weak, or the other title game team for choking.
The power five consists of 64 teams, 65 if you add ND. That is [essentially] the NCAAB march madness bracket. Most every team that matters qualifies for it, and they have 12 guaranteed opportunities to prove they are worthy of advancing.
If the best idea people come up with to eliminate conference champions is to remove that game, then you let a committee pick teams at random, and who does that help? There will be controversy every year to the point where we will be asking for those title games back to get automatic qualification. Think of the schedule shifting that would happen to make the end of your season easier to make sure you appear before the committee on a winning streak.
if it was 8 teams, look at last year: Clemson, Miami, Bama, Auburn, UGA, OSU, PSU, Stanford, UCF, OU, Wisconsin, USC, TCU, ND all have a fair case as a top 8 team (off the top of my head). But much like march madness, not everyone deserves to be there or are capable of winning a title.
If you are worried about an 8-4 team gaining automatic entry, don't you achieve the same risk adding teams who aren't thought to be among the 4-5 best?
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 3:07 PM
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Not really because I haven’t seen since it started being much controversy past who should be 4 and the team that got left out. Beyond that, really hasn’t been too questionable imo.
I just disagree with automatically limiting to the conference champs.
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Letterman [294]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 3:34 PM
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I just don't know what could be done if winning your conference doesn't matter. First, eliminate the game if it serves no true purpose. Then conferences really don't matter anymore since they are all uneven, and there is no game to fix that. Does the NCAA become like the NFL for the Power 5 and make the schedule for all 64 teams?
As you can tell, I'm against teams that don't win their conference being eligible. It just seems silly, in this age of a playoff that Bama can't hang an SEC West Division or SEC Title banner, but they have the CFP trophy. Just seems ludicrous. Like "we were better than 115 FBS schools, but our conference proved too tough" lol
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 4:23 PM
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Does the NCAA become like the NFL for the Power 5 and make the schedule for all 64 teams?
Yes. Have a separate natty for the group of 5 schools and have the power 5 play a 10 game schedule. 5 conference games and 5 OOC, conference standings go by overall record like the NFL. The 5 champs and 3 at large have an 8 team playoff.
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Legend [16251]
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Using last year as an example for regular season P5 champs
Aug 8, 2018, 4:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind. ] |
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+ 3 at-large, you would have had the following auto bids (game 12 ranking, conference records listed)
ACC: 7 Miami (7-1; wins tie-breaker over CU via common opponent record / Syracuse) B1G: 4 Wisconsin (9-0) B12: 3 Oklahoma (9-0) Pac: 10 USC (8-1) SEC: 2 Auburn (7-1; HTH tie-breaker over UGA and Bama)
There's your 5 P5 winners and Conference Champions Round participants.
Utilizing the CFP ranking system still for at-large, you have the following to choose from (CFP ranking & record after rivalry week - game 12)...
1 Clemson 11-1 5 Alabama 11-1 6 UGA 11-1 8 O310 10-2 9 PSU 10-2 11 TCU 10-2 13 Washington 10-2 14 UCF 11-0 (lost 12th game via hurricane)
Hard to argue against CU, Bama, and UGA from that list for 3 at-larges.
So CCG weekend, moved back a week would have looked like:
Clemson vs USC Auburn vs Miami OK vs UGA Wisconsin vs Bama
Best part would be O31O STILL missing out.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I dunno but they would've beaten us either way***
Aug 8, 2018, 12:02 PM
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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Tasked not Taxed
Aug 8, 2018, 1:50 PM
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you're welcome.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I offer no excuse...
Aug 8, 2018, 3:36 PM
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for being illiterate. I'm a half redneck and half injun, feather not dot.
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CU Medallion [55747]
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The worst precedent is 2 teams from the same conference, IMO
Aug 8, 2018, 3:42 PM
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I think can be OK with a non-conference winner being selected ahead of a conference winner under certain circumstances.
But I do not like 2 teams from the same conference in a 4-team playoff.
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110%er [6098]
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Why? Just because it’s the SEC? The 4 best, regardless of
Aug 8, 2018, 6:01 PM
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Conference.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 4:15 PM
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The system will always be flawed until they go to a legitimate playoff in which all conference champions make it like every other sport, but they know if they do that the non conference schedule becomes meaningless and it’s those big non conference matchups especially at the beginning of the season that sets CFB apart IMO.
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Orange Blooded [4139]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 5:28 PM
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I see where you are going, but pretty sure there is a basketball tourney that is pretty successful. It includes conf champs and at large. And the big non conf games are rather important.. 8 team playoff w seeding advantage to 5 conf champs (require a conf champ gm, and get ND in a conf), and add 3 at large teams. Would solve 99% of issues mentioned here. Never gonna be perfect because you simply can't play that large a number of football games (to go to 16 or more...)
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Orange Blooded [4139]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 5:29 PM
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also - maybe consider home field advantage in 1st round !! Would make conf champ VERY important
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110%er [7520]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 5:49 PM
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I think Dabo said it best! He likes the current system because it makes the entire year a playoff! If you go to another system by guaranteeing Conference Champs or adding the number of playoff games then you dilute the rest of the season. You don't want wildcards making it as a token slot like NFL where 9-7 teams make the playoffs every year. I think it's best as is!
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Last year, Bama WAS a "wildcard"... of course, minus a game.***
Aug 8, 2018, 6:18 PM
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Carlsbad's Post...? Link???***
Aug 8, 2018, 5:34 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I RAed it with all my scoks.
Aug 8, 2018, 8:03 PM
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I gave it a point first so no one would know so keep this just between the two of us.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: I RAed it with all my scoks.
Aug 8, 2018, 8:40 PM
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Btw- you’re no dummy. Just because you can’t spell doesn’t mean you don’t know your football.
It’s a tough issue because I would be the first one to argue if clemson had one slip this year because extraneous circumstances etc and be left out over an 9-3 conference winner. To me that’s not picking the 4 best teams.
Wasn’t too long ago I remember a bunch of peeps arguing that two acc teams should be in it.
Tough discussion- but a good strong debate. I thank everyone for keeping it just that and not cutting on each poster etc.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 8:04 PM
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Simple answer... 6 team playoff! The power five championship game winners are automatically in, then the sixth team is the next highest ranked. That makes more sense then having a four team playoff when there are 5 power 5 conferences. UCF had a real good argument last year. I’m not saying they would have won in the playoffs, but with the way they finished up their season they deserved a shot.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Carlsbad's post brought an interesting question to mind.
Aug 8, 2018, 2:55 PM
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Totally agree with this!
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