|
Replies: 23
| visibility 624
|
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
 |
All-TigerNet [11196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14048
Joined: 9/2/03
|
and he was held in contempt for a much less serious
May 8, 2019, 3:16 PM
|
|
matter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34582]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41409
Joined: 4/20/01
|
Bullsh*t***
May 8, 2019, 3:40 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
Again, I don’t recall the hearing with Holder, but how
May 8, 2019, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to and he was held in contempt for a much less serious ] |
|
Are documents pertaining to a government program that put guns in the hands of drug gangs that ended up killing US border security officers less important than Barr’s refusal to sit through another day of questions on his portrayal of a since-released document that states that Trump didn’t do what the investigation was created to investigate?
Or am I misremembering/misunderstanding the two situations?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34582]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41409
Joined: 4/20/01
|
no, no you are not***
May 8, 2019, 3:52 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14048
Joined: 9/2/03
|
One pertained to the ATF practice of "letting guns
May 8, 2019, 3:55 PM
[ in reply to Again, I don’t recall the hearing with Holder, but how ] |
|
walk" to Mexican cartel members so they could be traced (bad idea), one pertains to the obstruction of justice and dishonesty by the occupant of the office of the Presidency. While the death of the border agent was tragic and avoidable, it doesn't quite weigh as heavy on the national security scale.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
Again, one pertains to a program that actually happened,
May 8, 2019, 4:05 PM
|
|
resulting in the loss of American lives. The other relates to Barr’s portrayal of a document that states that there was no collusion (that being the national security issue, right?) , that has since been made completely available and even released to the public in redacted form.
Just my opinion but I’d say the seriousness is the exact opposite of what you said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14048
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Corruption in the highest office of government
May 8, 2019, 4:11 PM
|
|
is not important to you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
9oooooook***
May 8, 2019, 4:15 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14048
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Lemming.***
May 8, 2019, 4:59 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73752
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: Oh, are we playing that game? So a US border patrol officer’s life
May 9, 2019, 4:03 AM
|
|
Are we basically agreeing that the "guns don't kill people" argument is nonsense? Otherwise we can make a list of things that ALSO could have been used to kill those US border patrol officers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
Oh...well played, balm. :)***
May 9, 2019, 6:55 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38238
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
Uh, that was kind of the point.***
May 9, 2019, 8:50 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30155
Joined: 9/9/06
|
The report didn't look at collusion, it looked at conspiracy
May 8, 2019, 4:25 PM
[ in reply to Again, one pertains to a program that actually happened, ] |
|
"Collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law,” ... “For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.”
Now, when you look at what Trump campaign officials did like Manafort (giving polling information to russian political consultants connected to the Russian intelligence agency and was considered a "spy") then the idea of "collusion" becomes murkier.
I just wanted to clarify the "no collusion" part of your statement as I keep seeing it used incorrectly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
We tried to tell folks that for months the we resolved...
May 9, 2019, 9:02 AM
|
|
arguing semantics was a waste of time so we used the left's term. You saw it then but it was your side of the isle missing the point. Now you're in here lecturing us that we were right back then? I swear, I must agree. I've been right all along.
Mueller said he found no America conspired with Russia. He didn't investigate Hillary or Fusion GPS and Steele isn't American.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14048
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Another important factor is the interpretation of law.
May 8, 2019, 5:12 PM
[ in reply to Again, one pertains to a program that actually happened, ] |
|
If the House let's Barr get away with shilling for his boss, others can do it in the future and cite this case as precedence. Say AOC gets elected Pres in 8 yrs (won't happen, just an example) and she goes off an a wild bender of changing environmental laws and gets caught doing unethical and some illegal shid. Special investigation ensues, future AG decides to protect her at all cost at the expense of the American voter. Her admin, says "nanny nanny boo boo, Bill Barr did it...we can too."
Holder was held accountable for his coverup, and some democrats voted with the law instead of the party. Doesn't seem to be the case this time with GOP.
IMO, congressional oversight is a good thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40344]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23465
Joined: 7/13/12
|
i read somewhere today
May 8, 2019, 5:31 PM
|
|
that part of this is to block this from becoming an actual court case with the report involved so that it won't be obtainable outside of the confines it is now through the court process.
i don't know enough about law, but it sounded like if the report itself is brought into a courtroom as evidence or whatever category it would fall under, that it would then be open to be being brought into the public.
maybe the legals minds of the lounge can let me know if there is truth or just more internet drivel outside of the lounge
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
You have no legitimate right to say Trump obstructed justice
May 9, 2019, 8:55 AM
[ in reply to One pertained to the ATF practice of "letting guns ] |
|
Mueller investigated him for two years and couldn't say that. No one can say he did or that he didn't. Congress is can investigate all they want but until Trump is impeached and the vote shows he obstructed justice none can say for sure but Trump.
We all know he lies but if he says he didn't obstruct justice there's not chit you can do but vote for his opponent in 2020. Only he knows his heart and he's not talking to anyone under oath. He has executive rights and he has the 5th amendment working for him too. Best of luck determining a motive for doing something obstructive with no underlying crime in a court of law without his testimony.
If the dems believe they could prove he obstructed justice they would impeach him now instead of blowing smoke up your shorts about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
|
Re: Again, I don’t recall the hearing with Holder, but how
May 8, 2019, 7:41 PM
[ in reply to Again, I don’t recall the hearing with Holder, but how ] |
|
Are documents pertaining to a government program that put guns in the hands of drug gangs that ended up killing US border security officers less important than Barr’s refusal to sit through another day of questions on his portrayal of a since-released document that states that Trump didn’t do what the investigation was created to investigate?
Or am I misremembering/misunderstanding the two situations?
What you're misremembering is that the Mueller report didn't exhonerate Trump of the charge of Obstruction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2/1/99
|
This “failed to exonerate” phrasing amazes me. First,
May 8, 2019, 8:39 PM
|
|
how is that the criteria for anything? Is he guilty of obstruction? Welll, I can’t prove he DIDN’T obstruct.
Second, my comment was that the investigation found no evidence of what it was created to investigate, which was collusion, or to DE’s point, conspiracy. Some sort of work with the Russians to sway the election. Conclusion: It did not happen. The investigation was not opened to find out if there was going to be any obstruction during the investigation (although this is DC, so maybe it was). You know...the obstruction that Mueller did not say Trump was guilty of.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30155
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Investigation was also into Russia's attack on our elections
May 8, 2019, 10:15 PM
|
|
which the report confirmed (again).
-It also confirmed that the Trump campaign was open to the attack because the attack would benefit Trump's electoral chances.
-The investigation could not find direct coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia.
-Report confirmed over 100 contacts between Trump campaign and Russian government contacts.
-Mueller found 11 instances where Trump potentially obstructed.(https://www.businessinsider.com/barr-mueller-report-10-instances-obstruction-of-justice-press-conference-2019-4)
-Mueller says in the report that the Department of Justice guidelines forbid him from charging a sitting President of the United States so he leaves it to Congress. This is one of many instances where Barr and Mueller disagree. (I have a hard time seeing that as anything but saying that "I would charge this person with obstruction, except he's President and I can't so I leave it to the only authority who can remove him from office, Congress.)
Maybe there's another way of looking at what Mueller said with the obstruction bit which is why I'd like to hear his testimony on his report (that for some reason the President doesn't want us to hear).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
I wonder if they've asked Barr to arrest himself yet?
May 9, 2019, 8:45 AM
|
|
I bet he laid awake all night trying to decided what he's do if they followed congressional proceedings following a contempt charge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 23
| visibility 624
|
|
|
50
