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Replies: 20
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Standout [338]
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Brownell Thoughts
Feb 12, 2015, 4:25 PM
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I'm not as big of a Brownell hater as some people on here, but I can't call myself his biggest fan out there, either. While it's true that we're in a decent position in what is without a doubt the greatest college basketball conference in the country, we are still a noticeable step behind the teams ahead of us from a talent and consistency standpoint. We can always give some upper-tier teams a good run for their money when they come to Littlejohn, but for every one of those games we have an equally ugly game to counter it (74-50 loss to UNC, blowout loss at Pittsburgh last year come to mind). The past two season's home games against FSU have also been as ugly as they get.
It seems like if our defense falters whatsoever, we no longer give ourselves a chance to win the game.
I was pretty bored the other day and decided to look into this, and I discovered that when we allow a team to score more than what our defense gives up on average (roughly 60ppg), we are 4-7 on the season. Even worse, when teams can put up 65+ on our D, we are just 1-6.
There is always the argument that defense wins championships, but at some point you've gotta put some points on the board. It certainly seems like we have the guys that can put up 15+ points on any given night (Blossomgame, Grantham, Roper, Nnoko), but we can rarely get those guys going on the same night. You cannot tell me that we don't have the athletes to run a faster-paced, higher scoring offense.
I'm not calling for Brownell's head quite yet, but his track record of one tournament appearance (and that was without his own players) in what will be 5 years isn't exactly a great standard.
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Hall of Famer [21845]
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TL;DR***
Feb 12, 2015, 4:30 PM
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All-In [37023]
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DR;TL***
Feb 12, 2015, 4:40 PM
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CU Guru [1858]
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Re: Brownell (Long, but worth the read)
Feb 12, 2015, 4:35 PM
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Your comments are interesting and well articulated. I certainly can't argue with anything you've stated, however, I do believe he is a good man that has his team playing with a tremendous amount of effort and heart. Hopefully, with new facilities and some good recruiting in the next several years we can and will break into that top tier of the ACC.
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Varsity [215]
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What your stats prove is that teams that shoot ...
Feb 12, 2015, 5:01 PM
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the ball well, will usually beat us.
Good teams shoot the ball better, on average, than bad teams.
We usually lose to good teams. Exceptions would be when we have zero offense.
BB is the best coach we've have had in about 16 years and as soon as he gets a couple of shooters, he may prove to be better than Barnes.
1. We make free throws ( a very new concept at Clemson!)
2. We play great defense.
3. We handle the ball well enough to break the press.
4. We move the ball well enough to get open shots.
As soon as we get one or two more shooters who are dependable, we'll compete for the conference.
You must be young. You have no appreciation for how good this is or how good it will become.
Be patient and go to the games and support the team instead of bitching!
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Orange Blooded [2198]
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BB is not as good as OP
Feb 12, 2015, 5:02 PM
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... year 5 under OP and year 5 under BB... one ways trending up.. One is on the NIt bubble when he went to the Dance in his first season..
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: BB is not as good as OP
Feb 12, 2015, 5:07 PM
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This is ridiculous. What you said aren't even valid points for evaluating a coach.
But if you wanna go that route, year 5 under OP we started 17-0 and still couldn't get to the NCAA Tournament.
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Standout [338]
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Re: BB is not as good as OP
Feb 12, 2015, 5:22 PM
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1 tournament in 5 years, without his own handpicked players, isn't a valid evaluation of a coach? I know there are smarter people than me out there, but that seems like a decent reason for some frustration.
OP was before my time as a Clemson fan and student here but I still watched my fair share of games. When he was here, there was no doubt that Clemson was a more relevant team and that Littlejohn was a more intimidating place to play.
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Freshman [7]
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Re: BB is not as good as OP
Feb 12, 2015, 6:51 PM
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Clemson was more relevant and LJ was a more intimidating place to play.....but Purnell had a gimmicky system that wasn't going to do anything in the tournament(still has never won a tournament game), hist teams were always horrendous at the foul line, and he saw the writing on the wall when he left with his poor recruiting class of 2009(which Brownell was stuck with for his first few years). Purnell was good for Clemson, but Brownell is a better overall coach who can potentially do more at Clemson IMO.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: BB is not as good as OP
Feb 12, 2015, 10:29 PM
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I think OP record at Depaul speaks of his coaching genius, or lack of it.
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Orange Blooded [2680]
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Re: BB is not as good as OP
Feb 13, 2015, 5:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: BB is not as good as OP ] |
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> Clemson was more relevant and LJ was a more
> intimidating place to play.....but Purnell had a
> gimmicky system that wasn't going to do anything in
> the tournament(still has never won a tournament
> game), hist teams were always horrendous at the foul
> line, and he saw the writing on the wall when he left
> with his poor recruiting class of 2009(which Brownell
> was stuck with for his first few years). Purnell was
> good for Clemson, but Brownell is a better overall
> coach who can potentially do more at Clemson IMO.
_______________________________________________________________
clemsonfan3111, you should post more often than you do because
you are "spot on" in your evaluation of Purnell, IMO. Look what
he has done since leaving Clemson in the middle of the night. He was
not a very high character person, IMO.
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Varsity [215]
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OP's teams could press and beat bad teams. Good ...
Feb 12, 2015, 5:12 PM
[ in reply to BB is not as good as OP ] |
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teams know how to handle a press and they beat OP over and over...
He had teams in the NCAA, only to lose in game 1!
Don't get me wrong, OP was great for Clemson, but he had done all he could do and picked a very good time to move on.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: OP's teams could press and beat bad teams. Good ...
Feb 13, 2015, 8:07 AM
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We lost the games in the tournament because of missed free throws. That falls on him but doesn't have much to do with his coaching style.
It amazes me to hear people say they are satisfied with Brownell NOT making the tournament and bash OP for turning us a into a regular tournament but not winning a game.
The wins in the tournament would have came under Purnell.
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Standout [338]
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Re: What your stats prove is that teams that shoot ...
Feb 12, 2015, 5:20 PM
[ in reply to What your stats prove is that teams that shoot ... ] |
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From what I've seen, we've taken a step back with free throw shooting this season. I've been to my fair share of home games as a student. Against the press, we've struggled over the past few years to simply get the ball inbounds, and once that happens, I suppose we've done reasonably well against it.
I don't think we'll be competing for the conference anytime soon, whether that's a knock on Coach Brownell or it's praise for the ACC, with teams like Virginia and Louisville making it stronger than ever.
Young or not, it's hard to appreciate watching a team that only averages 62 a night and is often in dogfights with teams that we all think there should be no problem beating by 10+.
If you didn't read the last of my original post, I said I'm not calling for Brownell's job yet. I have been to a lot of games in my two years as a student and I'll continue to go and support our Tigers, but to say that it's not frustrating to watch our style of play sometimes would be a lie.
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Freshman [7]
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Re: What your stats prove is that teams that shoot ...
Feb 12, 2015, 6:54 PM
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I wouldn't mind seeing Brownell adjust his offensive playing style a bit. There's no reason we couldn't be a good team in transition with big athletic wings like Bgame and Grantham.
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All-In [27371]
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CU Guru [1213]
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Re: What your stats prove is that teams that shoot ...
Feb 12, 2015, 6:50 PM
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I think he's one of the best coaches we've had, but he's a lousy recruiter. We've got two or three ACC caliber players. He reminds me of Bill Foster back in the '70s. When Foster had talent recruited by Tates Locke, we were good. It was very clear that the man could coach. When he had to play his recruits, we struggled. I remember when we had a 6'5" center we hoped would grow. Brownell did well with OP's recruits his first year. I believe we can be very competitive when/if we get more ACC caliber recruits. I don't fault the effort put forth by Brownell's players. I also think he's a good Xs and Os coach. Time will tell. I'm not sure how long we should be patient.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: What your stats prove is that teams that shoot ...
Feb 13, 2015, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: What your stats prove is that teams that shoot ... ] |
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Hoping Avry Holmes and Hudson help out in that department, plus another year of development for the guys we have already playing. i could see Grantham and Blossongame both taking their games up a big notch next year.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Brownell Thoughts
Feb 12, 2015, 8:20 PM
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whatever the reasons may be - lack of recruiting abilities, lack of coaching skill, etc. - it's like watching paint dry IMO when I watch a BB-coached team. Yes - we make a few good plays and that's fun to watch, but the mistakes and lack of talent overshadow the good plays to the point that it boils down to coaching. I'm just thankful I don't get all wound up when we get another defeat piled onto the already too-large stack of defeats.
Gonna make the bubble??? How many times do we have to hear that before we look at the problem and determine how to resolve it?
News flash - there are probably several really great coaches out there that would love to coach in the ACC. They could set records at CLEMSON that might last for 100 years. If I were one of those coaches and CLEMSON offered me that chance, I'd jump at it.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Heck, he even admits it
Feb 12, 2015, 8:48 PM
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It is an uphill endeavor.
I like him, it may be the toughest job in the ACC. I like his attitude.
There are not many duel powers in NCAA sports .
I think he will do well.
Much depends on us , the fans and alumni.
I love ACC basketball , even to be in the mix is awesome.
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All-In [48078]
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I was a doubter, but...
Feb 13, 2015, 10:15 AM
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I see the improved recruiting with Grantham and Hudson. Legend looks good in film too. I think we will be in the tournament the year after next at the worst.
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