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Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
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CU Guru [1315]
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Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:09 AM
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how many of you are looking forward to paying 20% higher taxes, big government, losing your guns, economic armageddon a la Biden, socialized medicine, no bail for criminals?
Will await the usual snarky, off subject, childish, unhinged, crass remarks that reflect badly on the posters. You know, the juvenile entertainment from the left that makes my day !
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Heisman Winner [137862]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:13 AM
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Hall of Famer [21558]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:15 AM
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1. Didn't realize we had so many in the lunge making more than $400K! That's awesome!
2. Your boy Trump has not done one thing for the national deficit. He spends!
3. Did Trump give you back the gun Obama took from ya?
4. Last time Biden was in office he and Obama brought us out of a Republican Recession.
5. Do you drive a car? Do you have car insurance that you are required to have? Same for health care accept you don't get a choice in whether or not you get sick. We can do better for all. And your boy Trump hasn't come up with a new health care plan in his 4 years.
6. Bail out for criminals? What backwoods part of SC do you live in? Aynor, Iva?
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110%er [8982]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:18 AM
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when the gubmint needs money, the middle is where it goes
you wood not talk about Ivanese like that face to face
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Hall of Famer [21558]
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While in college I worked at Star-Iva middle school...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:24 AM
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I know all about the place....its a different planet.
I'd gladly meet anyone there for a discussion.
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110%er [8982]
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Re: While in college I worked at Star-Iva middle school...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:30 AM
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take your passport lol
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All-In [31887]
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Doesn't even apply to making over $400k...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties, ] |
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Biden's plan is to roll back the change on the upper-most bracket.
That means moving that bracket from 37% back to 39.6%. That is a change in the bracket of 2.6 pts or 7%...of course the total change would be less than 7%..
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All-In [34104]
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Re: Doesn't even apply to making over $400k...
Oct 27, 2020, 11:07 AM
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And that top tax bracket applies only to the highest-income 1% of households.
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110%er [5669]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties, ] |
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1. Didn't realize we had so many in the lunge making more than $400K!
When you do your taxes under Biden pull up your last year under trump and compare. If you use turbo tax, it will be easy. Just save a new file for FY20 (or 21) and plug in the new numbers that you are taxed on under Biden. Probably don't need to change much to get a decent comparison. Then look at the bottom line. Then you will think, "I remember someone on TNEt told me this would happen."
2. Your boy Trump has not done one thing for the national deficit. He spends!
Who wants to spend more - democrats. If you don't know that, then you need to turn in your TNet userid today.
3. Did Trump give you back the gun Obama took from ya?
Dumb comment. Obama didn't have the votes and the left was not as extreme as they are today.
4. Last time Biden was in office he and Obama brought us out of a Republican Recession.
The only reason we came out of a recession and stayed out was Trump. There was no substance behind the Obama economy and don't count unemployment because the number of people who had quit looking for work was at a historical high.
5. Do you drive a car? Do you have car insurance that you are required to have? Same for health care accept you don't get a choice in whether or not you get sick. We can do better for all. And your boy Trump hasn't come up with a new health care plan in his 4 years.
Wow, sure are showing your lack of thinking here. We are REQUIRED to buy insurance to protect OTHERS from immediate, direct, and significant financial distress if I (as guilty party) total your vehicle. That's why gubment makes me buy liability insurance.
The plan is the plan that exists now w/o the mandate. I will give you this, Trump has not made that clear. The current/modified Obamacare won't be rolled back until there is a another plan, but I do not think there is an urgency to replace it. So, it will remain status quo in all likelihood under a second Trump term.
6. Bail out for criminals? What backwoods part of SC do you live in? Aynor, Iva?
??
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Hall of Famer [21558]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 12:06 PM
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1. Ain't gonna happen. I'm not one of the lucky few making $400k plus.
2. Which party oversaw a surplus last? I'll wait.
3. This is a scare tactic by the radical right. I own two guns and am a Dem.
4. We were brought out of the recession way before Trump. He benefited from Obama policies.
5. The financial distress is as equal on those of us who have health care due to those who don't because they still need care. ERs can't refuse service. We can do better. Everyone should have health care in the richest country in the history of the earth.
6. More scare tactics....what's funny is the blue states give more money to the red states. Constantly bailing them out.
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All-In [31887]
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Hole Up...the GOP in Congress oversaw the last...
Oct 27, 2020, 12:51 PM
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surplus. They drug Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. Later, Clinton being the good politician that he is, adopted the idea for his own.
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Hall of Famer [21558]
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All-In [31887]
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We are saying the same thing, it's just that Clinton....
Oct 27, 2020, 4:04 PM
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admin went kicking and screaming. Do you remember all of the ads that the DNC ran with starving kids in the streets because they lost their free lunches due to the mean 'ole republicans in Congress wanting to balance the budget?
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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All-In [31887]
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Yep***
Oct 27, 2020, 5:28 PM
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:17 AM
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You forgot dogs and cats sleeping together. This is the only true measurable foreboding end of the world.
You best get busy putting your survival gear in your little hole in the ground out back, and you better get in there by January 19. He and his army of angry wine moms are coming for your guns and bibles, lol.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 1:29 PM
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"It's true - this man has no ####."
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All-In [31887]
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Can you please explain how someone making under....
Oct 27, 2020, 10:19 AM
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$400k will see a 20% tax increase under Biden (heck for those making over $400k too)?
Given that Biden has come out against single-payer healthcare, please also explain how he's going to bring about socialized medicine.
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110%er [8982]
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Re: Can you please explain how someone making under....
Oct 27, 2020, 10:22 AM
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biden wont be running things
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All-In [31887]
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cop out....one can't claim Biden is going to do...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:23 AM
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all these things and then when presented with a request for an explanation...one says he won't be running things. That is simple horse sheet.
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110%er [8982]
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Re: cop out....one can't claim Biden is going to do...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:34 AM
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do you believe that biden, in his current state, could write a bill by himself, or even an executive order
its just science
https://youtu.be/pL75UAYk6cA
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All-In [31887]
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As compared to the other candidate...yes...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:35 AM
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and twice on Sunday.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Probably irrevalent because the Executive branch doesn't
Oct 27, 2020, 12:36 PM
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write bills.
Source: High school civics class and googled to double-check. 
But yea, I think Biden has some significant decline, but I'm no expert.
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110%er [8982]
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Re: Probably irrevalent because the Executive branch doesn't
Oct 27, 2020, 12:43 PM
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he thinks he is running for senate, give him a look
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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110%er [8982]
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Re: cop out....one can't claim Biden is going to do...
Oct 27, 2020, 2:23 PM
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He can copy/paste the crap outta bill or contract, Biden couldn’t find his way home without help
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CU Guru [1315]
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All-In [47750]
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By rolling back Trump tax cuts.
Oct 27, 2020, 10:28 AM
[ in reply to Can you please explain how someone making under.... ] |
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That will impact everyone paying taxes.
Now some of you snowflakes that don't pay federal income tax will not notice this, so I understand your question.
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All-In [31887]
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No, that is wrong....his proposal is...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:31 AM
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to roll back only the top rate for those making >$400k. That rate would move from 37% back to 39.6%.
So please explain again how all taxes are going up by 20%. I'll wait.
Sir, I believe in this case, you are likely the snowflake.
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Hall of Famer [21558]
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AND that's only 39.6% on every dollar made $400K and above.
Oct 27, 2020, 10:33 AM
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Not 39.6% for the entire $400K.
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All-In [31887]
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correct....meant to say rate on top bracket***
Oct 27, 2020, 10:34 AM
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All-In [34104]
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Most people don't understand this distinction.
Oct 27, 2020, 6:13 PM
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They think people making $400k would pay 39.6% in taxes.
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All-In [47750]
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All-In [31887]
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Got ya...so you're just making stuff up....please continue***
Oct 27, 2020, 11:58 AM
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All-TigerNet [12591]
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Re: Can you please explain how someone making under....
Oct 27, 2020, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Can you please explain how someone making under.... ] |
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Public option plan will be less expensive than private plans. Private plans will eventually fold. It will be an incremental change. Private plans will probably remain for things not covered in the public option unless that is perceived as being an unfair privilege. Single payer is coming.
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All-TigerNet [12591]
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Re: Can you please explain how someone making under....
Oct 27, 2020, 10:32 AM
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I trust the markets over more government bureaucracies. More competition should be promoted in medicine, not less.
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All-In [31887]
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110%er [6402]
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Re: Can you please explain how someone making under....
Oct 27, 2020, 11:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: Can you please explain how someone making under.... ] |
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Great. My doctor will be a government employee, and if I get diagnosed with cancer, I'll be lucky to be treated in 12 to 16 months. If I make it that long.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [31887]
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From $137,700 to $142,800....
Oct 27, 2020, 12:06 PM
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that adds $316.20 if you work for someone else.
How has the "$400k thing" been proven to be false? How do you prove a plan that is clearly written to be "false". You can not believe the plan or believe it, but you can't prove it to be false.
No matter how you slice it, the statement that everyone's taxes are going up by 20% based on Biden's plan is wrong, right? It's clearly made-up, right?
Biden's plan raises the cap gains rate and the dividend rate from 23.8% to 39.6% for those making over $1MM annually. I think that's wrong and I'm against it. But, it's not going to measurably impact the avg investor, and likely not anyone in here. Right?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: From $137,700 to $142,800....
Oct 27, 2020, 1:03 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: From $137,700 to $142,800....
Oct 27, 2020, 1:43 PM
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T3,
Based on our low inflation, how many centuries do you think it will take for the gap between $137K and $400K to close ?
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All-In [31887]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Yes, again, but how does that equate to everyone paying....
Oct 27, 2020, 2:01 PM
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All-In [31887]
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My post to the OP....was pointing out that Biden...
Oct 27, 2020, 2:37 PM
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isn't going to cause everyone's taxes to go up by 20%.
The payroll tax ceiling increase is going to cost the average person making more than $137,700 (moving to $142,800) about $345/yr. But that's not part of Biden's tax plan...that has already been announced for 2021 (assume you know that already). Biden's plan creates the "doughnut hole" between that limit and those making over $400k.
I can't find where you have yet brought up a point/example of his tax plan raising taxes on those making under $400k. I hope you didn't think the payroll tax ceiling increase was only happening under Biden's tax plan. It goes up just about every year based on inflation.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: My post to the OP....was pointing out that Biden...
Oct 27, 2020, 2:45 PM
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All-In [31887]
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Sorry, but you are ill-informed....
Oct 27, 2020, 4:01 PM
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The capital gains increase is only if you make above $1MM. So how does that apply to everyone?
Your argument is that changing the corporate tax back to what it was a few years ago is going to cause pricing to increase. Maybe if it was a mass increase there might be a point there, but I seriously doubt pricing models have changed since it was decreased a few years ago. I run a company and certainly benefited from the tax cuts in terms of being able to expand, but I don't see a direct correlation to pricing. There aren't many businesses that price things directly based on their costs. It's a lot more complicated than that and generally have more to do with the competitive market than costs. Regardless, it's not a tax increase on the general population. That is a real stretch.
You say the ceiling will be eliminated at some point. Well, if we follow the current formula for inflation adjustment and inflation stays around 3%, it would take around 60 yrs for the ceiling to be eliminated.
As for the 401k pre-tax deductions, Biden's plan is to give everyone the same tax benefit and the proposal is 26% tax credit on what is invested in 401k's up to the $19k limit. That means it would be a very slight $ amount increase in taxes to those with effective tax rates over 26%. I don't have time to do the math, but effective federal rate over 26% has to be around the $400k mark, maybe more depending on deductions.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Sorry, but you are ill-informed....
Oct 27, 2020, 4:19 PM
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All-In [31887]
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Why don't you just admit that you're wrong?....
Oct 27, 2020, 4:51 PM
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Or at least point out where I am wrong. I gave you a pretty good bit of detail.
The 401k proposed change will certainly not kill off company sponsored 401k's. That is utterly ridiculous. The change for almost everyone is going to be neutral to a slight positive in terms of taxable income benefit. There are very few employees of companies that have an effective federal income tax rate above 26%. You say you talk to these people every day....I am one of those people (meaning running a company and decide on company benefits). Please explain how having the employee benefit go from a pre-tax payroll check deduction to a end-of-year tax credit of 26% of funds invested would cause an employer to discontinue offering the plan? There is no real down-side to the employer with this change. The employer matching funds is still an expense item...nothing changes there. Give me some detail on why you believe what you wrote.
As far as the step-up basis change, this is a good analysis of the impact.
https://taxfoundation.org/analysis-economic-revenue-distributional-effects-repealing-step-basis/
According to this analysis, almost all of the impact is on the top 1%...by the latest tax states, that is income above $427k.
So...to summarize, I'm still waiting for you to illustrate how income taxes are going to increase for those making under $400k as a result of the plan Biden is proposing. Rough count is you're 0 for 4 currently.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Why don't you just admit that you're wrong?....
Oct 27, 2020, 5:02 PM
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All-In [31887]
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Wow...you went full snowflake...
Oct 27, 2020, 5:06 PM
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in the end, you always show your true colors.
All YOU did was state opinion. I gave you figures and numbers. You don't seem capable of explaining your position/opinions. Once you are challenged, you fold/attack personally. It's ok, it was expected...but I like to at least give you a chance to change your MO.
Also, am I an engineering know-it-all or a manufacturing meathead know it all? Maybe I'm an executive manager know-it-all. Or, maybe, I really just do know more than you!
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Wow...you went full snowflake...
Oct 27, 2020, 5:07 PM
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All-In [31887]
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LOL...ok buddy***
Oct 27, 2020, 5:19 PM
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All-In [42133]
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What a colossal baby you are.
Oct 27, 2020, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wow...you went full snowflake... ] |
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Please let everyone here know when you're ready to behave like a man and have a real discussion.
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All-In [31887]
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Ahh you edited to add something...well...
Oct 27, 2020, 5:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why don't you just admit that you're wrong?.... ] |
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You said the article stated “ On a conventional basis, the Biden tax plan by 2030 would lead to about 7.7 percent less after-tax income for the top 1 percent of taxpayers and about a 1.9 percent decline in after-tax income for all taxpayers on average.”
You do know how averages work, right? The top 1% have a tax burden of ~38%. If they have 7.7% less after-tax income, when you include that in everyone it comes out to about 1.9% over the total. That statistic doesn't directly lead to a conclusion that taxes are going to go up on those making less than $400k.
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All-In [42133]
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And there it is. This is what you do.
Oct 27, 2020, 5:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why don't you just admit that you're wrong?.... ] |
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He gave you stats and figures. You pitched a fit and spouted your opinion. Then he cited the figures again and asked you to refute his stats. As usual, you devolve into name calling and stamping your feet.
You are emotionally unstable. I think you might find more success going to wherever 13 year olds hang out in your town and having debates with them.
For once, attempt to act like a grown man. Try it.
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All-In [31887]
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"engineering/manufacturing meathead" LOL...
Oct 27, 2020, 5:30 PM
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who could make that up.
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All-In [31445]
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Re: "engineering/manufacturing meathead" LOL...
Oct 27, 2020, 5:37 PM
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A “wealth manager” who fancies himself an investment banker and economic guru
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: "engineering/manufacturing meathead" LOL...
Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM
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All-In [31887]
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Seriously...is that what he says he does for living? yikes***
Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM
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All-In [31445]
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Re: Seriously...is that what he says he does for living? yikes***
Oct 27, 2020, 5:45 PM
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It’s the reason he always brings up other people’s education and professions, it’s a serious inferiority complex.
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All-In [31445]
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All-In [42133]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Are you like one of those guys...
Oct 27, 2020, 5:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: "engineering/manufacturing meathead" LOL... ] |
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Who buys Adobe CS and watches a few YouTube tutorials on Photoshop and then claims he has a graphic design business?
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Oculus Spirit [81889]
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All-In [42133]
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Updated T3 Logic Land
Oct 27, 2020, 5:44 PM
[ in reply to "engineering/manufacturing meathead" LOL... ] |
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"Anyone who disagrees with me is a liberal Dem and anyone who doesn't work in the same field as me is worthless and I'm gonna insult their profession and gonna go on a thumbs down tirade (notice he did that to you... what a baby)!"
If there's a Vegas line on anti-psychotic meds he's on, I'm taking the over.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Updated T3 Logic Land
Oct 27, 2020, 5:52 PM
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All-In [42133]
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Re: Updated T3 Logic Land
Oct 27, 2020, 6:01 PM
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You don't know who is an expert on what, and you are incapable of having a civil discussion. Flow gave you stats and tried to talk the issue. You made it personal.
Here are some hard truths in life your daddy never taught you:
-Your profession isn't any more or less valuable compared to someone else's as long as you both work an honest living. Each job is important to our society. A man's job doesn't define his character or his self-worth.
-Just because someone disagrees with you on an issue, it's not a personal attack on you as a person or a challenge to your manhood.
-Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that person is your enemy or resides on the complete opposite end of any political spectrum. They just disagree with you on an issue.
-If you cannot have a normal discussion without devolving into name-calling and attacks on a person or their profession, you may need to consult a professional for help.
-It's fine if you walk away from a debate without changing the other person's mind. Not everyone will agree with you.
Let me know when you're ready to accept these truths and enter the adult world.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Updated T3 Logic Land
Oct 27, 2020, 6:09 PM
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All-In [42133]
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Re: Updated T3 Logic Land
Oct 27, 2020, 9:22 PM
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Once again, I didn't say that. Are you as dumb as a box of rocks like Flow? I literally just said that like one post ago.
You've done that repeatedly here. You constantly attack other people their professions. That's pathetic, and it shows you are not secure in your own career.
You seem to be the one that needs help as you continually stalk me and my posts and insert yourself into conversations you weren't a part of.
It's a message board. I'll respond to what I want, when I want, and how I want, and you'll like it.
Speaking of professions, what do you even do??? I picture you as a freelance internet blogger talking about first amendment rights.
I live off government welfare and make spare cash by giving handies down on King Street. Used to do it at the Market, but all those sweetgrass rose kids ran me off. Every now and then I pop into the public library to harass you on their free Internet and to read some Hardy Boys books.
In any case, I'm done going forward responding to your posts. I'm simply going to TD every time you respond to me. So long.
This is like the 37th time you've threatened to do this and you and I both know you aren't done responding to me.
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All-In [31887]
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Again, to be clear, do YOU believe everyone's taxes...
Oct 27, 2020, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: From $137,700 to $142,800.... ] |
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will go up by 20% if Biden's proposed tax plan in enacted?
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CU Guru [1315]
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Joined: 1/25/11
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Re: Can you please explain how someone making under....
Oct 27, 2020, 4:28 PM
[ in reply to Can you please explain how someone making under.... ] |
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AOC, Bernie, etc will bring Med For All, which will raise your taxes, on average, 20%. Bank on it. Do you have any idea of what some of these socialized medicine countries pay in taxes. Look it up. It will shock you. Taxes for the middle class will indeed go up. Bank on that too.
You lefties are so delusional and under-informed. Sad that you even vote.
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All-In [31887]
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Joined: 11/22/03
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So AOC and Bernie are going to do it? You said Biden....
Oct 27, 2020, 4:54 PM
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do yourself a favor and just admit you're completely FOS.
Do you really think I'm a lefty because I think you are clueless? I've got more conservative knowledge in my left testes than you've ever dreamed of.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: So AOC and Bernie are going to do it? You said Biden....
Oct 27, 2020, 4:58 PM
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All-In [31445]
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LMAO***
Oct 27, 2020, 5:00 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: LMAO***
Oct 27, 2020, 5:04 PM
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All-In [43653]
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This is rich. Like fantastic, even by your standards.
Oct 27, 2020, 10:31 AM
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Read your question. Then read your comment after the question. Notice any irony there?
how many of you are looking forward to paying 20% higher taxes, big government, losing your guns, economic armageddon a la Biden, socialized medicine, no bail for criminals?
Will await the usual snarky, off subject, childish, unhinged, crass remarks that reflect badly on the posters. You know, the juvenile entertainment from the left that makes my day !
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:32 AM
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 10:33 AM
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All-In [42133]
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Hard to tell if you're a troll bot or just...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:33 AM
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A man who is so scared and defeated over what's about to happen next week that you keep posting these same questions over and over.
First, you aren't changing anyone's vote on this board with this. Chances are good most people here have already voted.
Next, I wouldn't look forward to any of those things and I doubt anyone else here would. But here's what's not going to happen under Biden:
-Twenty percent higher taxes. At least, not to most of the people on here.
-Losing my guns. This is just a usual scare tactic by your end of the spectrum. And once again, it's a con job by gun manufacturers to scare you into thinking that. No one is coming for our guns.
-We already have big government. Too big of a government. Too powerful of an executive branch. But see, the GOP and Trump have supported that for this century. Trump is a big advocate of big government. Why do you support him?
-No bail for criminals. Let's get real. This is all a state thing, anyway.
Calm down. You'll be okay. All of you Trump folks kind of brought this on yourselves with the constant in our faces for the last four years and calling any of us who criticized him leftist Dems.
Most of America is about to teach y'all some humility.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Hard to tell if you're a troll bot or just...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:55 AM
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All-In [42133]
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Re: Hard to tell if you're a troll bot or just...
Oct 27, 2020, 11:01 AM
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He's likely not winning PA, AZ, or NC. Those rallies say nothing about voting turn out. Simple anecdotal evidence.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Hard to tell if you're a troll bot or just...
Oct 27, 2020, 11:13 AM
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All-In [42133]
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Re: Hard to tell if you're a troll bot or just...
Oct 27, 2020, 11:19 AM
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Even if the polls are as wrong as they were in 2016, Biden is still projected to win. Biden didn't lose any votes over that fossil fuel statement. People's minds are already made up this time.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/presidential-polls-trump-biden
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Hard to tell if you're a troll bot or just...
Oct 27, 2020, 11:27 AM
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All-In [44028]
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Based on what? The same polls that were wrong 4 years ago?***
Oct 27, 2020, 1:47 PM
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Judge,
Is it possible that pollsters learned from thieir mistakes in 2016 and adjusted their sampling to be more accurate in 2020 ??
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All-In [44028]
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Of course it's possible.
Oct 27, 2020, 2:43 PM
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But I don't think it is likely.
And even if they do try to do better, I believe there is a large segment of the polled population who isn't saying they will vote for Trump due to fear of being labeled racist, etc.
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All-In [42133]
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The polls weren't that off in 2016
Oct 27, 2020, 4:28 PM
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That's the big myth from the election. They were dead-on with popular vote, and they had slight miscalculations in those three key states because they didn't focus on one demographic enough (and they're not making that mistake this time).
2016 was also an anomaly: It's only the fifth time something like that has ever happened in U.S. history.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
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Orange Blooded [2203]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 4333
Joined: 9/10/18
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CU Medallion [55732]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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It's going to suck, but I blame DJT. He gave away the
Oct 27, 2020, 10:39 AM
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Presidency with his awful COVID response. At the end of the day, his response to COVID will cost us all dearly.
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All-In [31887]
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Joined: 11/22/03
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On this I agree***
Oct 27, 2020, 10:40 AM
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Hall of Famer [21558]
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All-In [42133]
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Or the idiots who say...
Oct 27, 2020, 10:54 AM
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"It's all going to go away after the election."
Anyone who says that should be forced to go apologize to the families of everyone who has died from it already or who will die after the election.
Because it's not ####### going away after the election, and anyone who believes that has climbed the height of the idiot ladder.
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Lot o points [155796]
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Joined: 5/6/13
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Can we not just blow right by "He cost us 200,000 American
Oct 27, 2020, 5:55 PM
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lives" as being just as idiotic as anything else being said? It's the talking point du jour, and it's so weak it's not funny.
If you believe that Trump cost 200k American lives, then you are of the opinion that somewhere out there, there's a candidate (presumably it would be Hillary, but I'm willing to give wide imaginative berth here), any candidate, who could have and would have prevented all American covid deaths. If you don't believe that, then you don't believe that Trump is responsible for all 200k.
So maybe the person who says that is reasonable and says "ok, well, he's just responsible for some of them". The next questions that I have yet to get a reasonable answer to are:
1) Hillary...Biden...Candidate X---exactly what do you believe they would have done differently to correct what you believe Trump did wrong.
1.5) Before we move on, let's be sure to run your answer to 1 through the good old reality filter....whatever you think they would have done, is it constitutionally allowed? Would the House, Senate, and state-level leaders have allowed it? Would governors like Cuomo just have gone ahead and sent old Covid patients to nursing homes anyway, negating your actions? Would it have been legally challenged? Would the SC have allowed it to stand? Ok, if you're sure of all those things, let's go to #2
2) If your answer to 1 were implemented by the mystery candidate, exactly how many lives do you think it would have saved? What are you basing this lives saved metric on?
If you can get through 1 and 2 with solid answers, I'm willing to accept someone saying "Trump directly caused X additional deaths by not implementing Y directives." If they can't, they're making the argument of a child, saying that "bad man responsible for all bad things", and they can generally be ignored on further conversations on the topic.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Joined: 9/10/18
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Re: It's going to suck, but I blame DJT. He gave away the
Oct 27, 2020, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to It's going to suck, but I blame DJT. He gave away the ] |
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I hate to tell you (its Trumps fault that China released this virus on the world crowd) that most likely everyone will have gotten the Wuhan virus unless there is a working vaccine no matter what we do.
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Hall of Famer [21558]
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Joined: 9/7/02
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Make sure you accept defeat this well next week.***
Oct 27, 2020, 10:50 AM
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CU Medallion [55732]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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True. But he still did not provide leadership.
Oct 27, 2020, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: It's going to suck, but I blame DJT. He gave away the ] |
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I agree. It is a virus and most of us will get it - just like the flu and the cold. But COVID is deadlier and we have no vaccine and no definite, proven treatments.
These are the times when a clearly articulated plan, with updates from the best science has to offer, and calm, steady leadership, not "It'll magically disappear by Easter" are most needed.
As much as I loved his first 3 years, on COVID, DJT has failed miserably.
I just pray his ineptitude doesn't cost me the business I have worked hard to build.
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All-In [31445]
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All-In [42133]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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I think this is obviously a major factor.
Oct 27, 2020, 10:52 AM
[ in reply to It's going to suck, but I blame DJT. He gave away the ] |
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But not the sole factor. He was already in bad shape before COVID.
His rabid supporters are also to blame. Many Americans are voting against them just as much as they are voting against him. We've had four years of rubbing MAGA, "owning the libs," "Trump Train," and "snowflakes" in our faces simply for criticizing him, and anyone who dared to criticize him was labeled a liberal Dem who hates America.
That #### got old fast.
When you are an ungracious winner and you are constantly and obnoxiously rubbing your team in people's faces, don't be surprised when they all want you to lose.
What should have happened is all of us discuss these matters in a civil fashion, Trump supporters realizing that most Americans have an eclectic view of the world and aren't just "liberal Dems" for pointing out flaws, and (this is the most important) Trump supporters actually holding him accountable to problems instead of blindly following his every word and move. Or dismissing his bad actions at every turn.
Yes, his loss next week falls on the shoulders of his own militant supporters as well. I haven't met anyone who is excited to be voting for Biden, but they sure as hell are excited to be voting against Trump.
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Oculus Spirit [79427]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 10/30/05
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The hilarious part to me, that seems lost on so many people
Oct 27, 2020, 11:26 AM
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Is what you're decrying is precisely why he won the first time. It gets old being told you're a racist for existing, or that you hate this and that for no particular reason other than you disagree politically. My entire adult life Democrats have been beating that drum about Republicans, but there's not enough self awareness on either side to realize what the inevitable push back will be when you don't let up.
So here we are, I fully expect riots next week.
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All-In [42133]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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I agree.
Oct 27, 2020, 11:43 AM
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The smugness that came out of the Dem camp in 2016 definitely helped Trump win. Many Americans did the same in 2016 as a #### you to them. I too though it ridiculous that anyone who opposed Obama was labeled racist (there were plenty who opposed him because he was racist, but not the majority... hell, I didn't like him as president and I know I'm not racist).
So yes, I think you're right, the same attitude was at play. This is the power of the moderate voter in America.
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All-In [42133]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Blech, the typos.
Oct 27, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Should read...
I too thought it ridiculous that anyone who opposed Obama was labeled racist (there were plenty who opposed him because they were racist, but not the majority... ####, I didn't like him as president and I know I'm not racist).
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Lot o points [155796]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 5/6/13
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In fairness, the first one was accurate too. :-)***
Oct 27, 2020, 6:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Joined: 1/4/17
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Re: The hilarious part to me, that seems lost on so many people
Oct 27, 2020, 1:57 PM
[ in reply to The hilarious part to me, that seems lost on so many people ] |
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Lakebum,
I hope you are wrong about the riots, but your main points has value. If we don't start speaking with each other rather than at each other, I don't know where this country ends up - no place good.
That being said, I DO believe that Trump has escalated and exacerbated these tendencies to demonize the other side.
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 7/13/02
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How about some adult entertainment.
Oct 27, 2020, 11:02 AM
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We have a $27,000,000,000,000 national debt. We had a $1,000,000,000,000 deficit before several trillion more were added for covid. We have no taxable solution for our spending, which has never decreased in my 44 years as an American. We are less stable as a society because grownups see the problem. Trump is not the answer to it. Neither is Biden for that matter.
We are getting exactly what we deserve. Bad leadership. Period.
No one will lose their guns, or their abortions, no matter who wins. They will lose their security though, their incomes, their businesses, either way. They've already lost their faith. Family? Most have lost those. The American "family" doesn't exist anymore. I know because I document it for a living. Ward and June and Beaver are the very small and shrinking exception to the overall rule. Local congregation just lost their church.
We used to have debates where two grownups argued policy. Now we have an immature child and a senile old man yelling at each other for inordinate control of a once reasonable and just nation.
While you're being entertained by the juvenile left, and the right is entertained by the juvenile Trump, Rome burns.
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Hall of Famer [24740]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 7/31/10
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Time to move to the farm...?***
Oct 27, 2020, 12:58 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Joined: 1/4/17
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Re: How about some adult entertainment.
Oct 27, 2020, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to How about some adult entertainment. ] |
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Tiggity,
I don't disagree in general. Do you see any way for us to move back away from this abyss ?
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All-In [44028]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Joined: 2/22/03
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Trump is winning, so your hypothetical post doesn't matter.***
Oct 27, 2020, 11:51 AM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Joined: 1/4/17
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Re: Trump is winning, so your hypothetical post doesn't matter.***
Oct 27, 2020, 2:00 PM
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Judge,
Which polls are you looking at ??
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All-In [44028]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Joined: 2/22/03
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I'm not saying he's winning in the polls.
Oct 27, 2020, 2:44 PM
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I'm saying that he is going to win on November 3.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 27, 2020, 1:27 PM
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Miura,
I don't know which is sadder:
1. That you are a troll who puts this bullyshitt out here just to aggravate other people
or
2. You live in such a dark little bubble that you actually believe in your own bullyshitt.
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All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
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Re: Besides Carlsbad, 19B, Felix and the usual extreme lefties,
Oct 28, 2020, 6:27 AM
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I don't make over 400k annually.
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