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110%er [9056]
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Basketball Recruiting is the problem........
Mar 22, 2017, 2:23 PM
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There a cover on the home page of TigerNet this afternoon about a recruit named Clyde Trapp. No disrespect intended or meant, but a 3-star recruit like him is what's wrong with our basketball program. What I'm addressing is that we're recruiting 3-star players - look at the other schools he's gotten offers from - almost all are low to mid-level programs. There's no way our basketball program's ever going to make real progress and be successful if we're recruiting 3-star players. No coach in the country's going to be a real winner like that.
Just like Dabo did in football, we've got to consistently recruit better players to begin with.
I know everybody knows this. This is obvious. But the question is what will it take for our basketball program to make the real kinds of improvements like our football program made?
I'll be 62 in September and have been hearing this same question about our basketball recruiting ever since the 1960s.
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Orange Blooded [2081]
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Re: Basketball Recruiting is the problem........
Mar 22, 2017, 2:48 PM
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Our AD evidently does not take basketball seriously. Maybe we should all do the same.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Remember TJ Green. 2* in the NFL now***
Mar 22, 2017, 2:56 PM
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Walk-On [128]
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Our Elite football coaches can also develop players
Mar 22, 2017, 3:05 PM
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BB cannot
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All-TigerNet [13238]
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1 example
Mar 22, 2017, 11:36 PM
[ in reply to Remember TJ Green. 2* in the NFL now*** ] |
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yes there are some, but. The amount of top talent our FBall team gets is a world away from Basketball, relative to ACC & national powers.
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110%er [6153]
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All-In [44039]
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He would be the highest rated recruit we have ever signed
Mar 22, 2017, 3:12 PM
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BY FAR.
It is no easy task, and Brownell's recruiting skills should not be judged on whether he gets Zion or not. With that said, I sure hope he does.
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: He would be the highest rated recruit we have ever signed
Mar 22, 2017, 4:46 PM
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No way no chance no how. It is not going to happen ever.
He is Duke-bound and will wear the blue in 2018.
Why would you ever turn down the chance to play for the greatest college coach of all time and play for the team that has put the most players in the NBA over the past 20 years.
Of course So Carolina is convinced they will get him after the sWeet 16 run. Also incorrect.
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All-In [44039]
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Maybe you're right, but I'm glad we are trying.
Mar 22, 2017, 5:09 PM
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I'm glad our coaching staff doesn't see things the way you do. If we don't try, we'll never know.
Also, I'm glad Dabo and his staff didn't have such a defeatist attitude when recruiting Spiller, Boyd, Watkins, etc. Those guys could have easily gone to a much better football program with a significantly better history of success, but they believed in the coaching staff and wanted to be a part of something special. They are a huge part of our program's turnaround and current success. It is obviously a different situation for basketball, but kudos to Brownell and company for trying.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Why would a kid like CJ Spiller come to Clemson after
Mar 22, 2017, 9:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: He would be the highest rated recruit we have ever signed ] |
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... after a losing season when he had offers from every school in the nation?
If Zion Williamson is really all that and a bag of chips then he doesn't need Duke or Coach K to make his mark.
Everybody says he could go right to the NBA out of high school if it was still allowed.
If CJ Spiller can be convinced to come to Clemson, then Zion Williamson can too.
It will say a lot about where Clemson's program is and where its headed if we can't get a serious look from an in-state kid whose Dad played for Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: Basketball Recruiting is the problem........
Mar 22, 2017, 3:01 PM
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Significantly increase the recruiting budget.
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All-In [44039]
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^^THIS!
Mar 22, 2017, 3:11 PM
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Brownell needs a much higher recruiting budget, which can go toward better assistant coaches and more support staff. Our football recruiting picked up when Dabo was able to get the assistants and other staff he needed. Clemson has to work that much harder than peer institutions because we don't have the bball history to fall back on.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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Re: Basketball Recruiting is the problem........
Mar 22, 2017, 6:14 PM
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Interesting read. Wouldn't have thought the recruiting budget would be that large.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Walk-On [128]
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All goes back to his boring system/style of play
Mar 22, 2017, 3:04 PM
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Like trying to recruit an Elite QB/WR to a run 1st pro style offense. Elites kids want to play in fast paced, high scoring offenses. No one likes? a low scoring defensive battle, recruits or fans.
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All-In [44039]
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You obviously didn't watch ANY of our games this year.***
Mar 22, 2017, 3:09 PM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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All-In [44039]
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Recruiting answers are happening:
Mar 22, 2017, 3:09 PM
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The facility upgrade was sorely needed. Brownell has been recruiting with one hand tied behind his back until now. Facility upgrades typically take a few years to reveal their full effect, however this incoming 2017 class will be Brownell's best to date. Three 4-star players and one 3-star is great. Remember that these guys agreed to come to Clemson without even seeing the finished product - all they saw were drawings. I expect that we will see continued success on the recruiting trail.
Although Clyde Trapp is "only" a 3-star, he had offers from Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Georgia, VCU, etc. While those are not Duke and UNC type programs, they are solid offers. It's not like he's a mid-major prospect. And keep in mind that he is our only 3-star recruit this class. The others are 4-stars, and their offer lists reflect it. They chose us over schools like UConn, Georgetown, Miami, FSU, etc.
The other aspect which is not discussed much, but is important, are recruiting relationships. Brownell and his staff are building good relationships with high schools and AAU coaches. My hope is that Brownell will replace 1-2 members of the current staff with guys who are stronger recruiters. A coach is only as good as his assistants when it comes to recruiting, and he has not had the support he needs on that. Expect changes here (as required by Radakovich). As has been mentioned here by striperfan, Greg Buckner would be a great assistant given his NBA experience as a player and a coach, as well as his desire to return to Clemson.
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All-In [48078]
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I definitely think we will be much better in2 years.
Mar 22, 2017, 4:31 PM
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Recruiting does look better. Hopefully we have a stud PG coming in after this next class.
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All-In [44039]
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Mitchell is outstanding and will possibly go down as
Mar 22, 2017, 5:10 PM
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one of our best PGs ever, but we will certainly need to be grooming his replacement.
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All-In [48078]
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Exactly how I feel*****
Mar 22, 2017, 9:10 PM
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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That seems to be the common theme to Brownell's tenure.
Mar 22, 2017, 5:55 PM
[ in reply to I definitely think we will be much better in2 years. ] |
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Some day we will eventually be better. Some day never comes. That is why we are in this mess.
Recruiting would improve no matte who the coach is with our facilities upgrades and likely from our football team success as well. That recruiting upside will be limited by the current coaching staff. We know that.
It's scary to think that next year is a throw away year and that we're working for a point 2-3 years from now when, like this year, expectations are for a decent team.
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Legend [19668]
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Agree about his offer list
Mar 22, 2017, 10:49 PM
[ in reply to Recruiting answers are happening: ] |
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stars mean nothing, especially in basketball. Look at a kids offers. Trapp has a good offer list, and is the type athlete we've lacked on the wing.
Simms had an outstanding offer list. William had a good one including WV. Oliver committed so early schools stopped recruiting him.
We need a couple of these guys to be very solid contributors next season
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All-In [44039]
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We really do need to have at least one, and maybe two, be great as freshmen.
Mar 22, 2017, 11:04 PM
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The forwards will definitely have an opportunity due to our lack of depth. The guards will have a tougher job getting minutes, but I'm sure it will help A.J. Oliver that he graduated early and redshirted this year.
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Legend [19668]
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O don't know if any of them come in and are great
Mar 22, 2017, 11:18 PM
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but we need them to be solid contributors. If we have a/some transfers, could use a grad transfer in the low post as well, as I'm not sold on Robertin being anything more than a 5-10 minute a game guy.
Will be interesting how the roster shakes out here over the next couple of months, if there is some attrition. Attrition means opportunity for the new guys
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110%er [9949]
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Need 5-star recruit***
Mar 22, 2017, 5:29 PM
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110%er [5482]
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BB is afflicted with the Tommy Bowden syndrome - why try
Mar 22, 2017, 6:11 PM
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cause I know they won't come to Clemson.
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All-In [44039]
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But Brownell IS trying, which is why Zion is considering us.
Mar 22, 2017, 9:00 PM
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In fact, Brownell was the first one to offer Zion a scholarship.
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Commissioner [991]
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If you want to complain at least make it factual
Mar 22, 2017, 9:12 PM
[ in reply to BB is afflicted with the Tommy Bowden syndrome - why try ] |
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We had Brice Johnson right up until the end when UNC came calling. He went after Seventh Woods, plenty of others...most of them said thanks but no thanks. You want to complain about several things with CBB ok, but him not going after talent is just wrong and shows how much our fanbase actually pays attention to this program.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Rampant cheating via AAU is the problem
Mar 22, 2017, 6:32 PM
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And I don't see us ever playing that game.
So we will probably never be able to compete the cheaters. But a creative energetic recruiter should be able to get us mid to upper middle of the ACC.
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All-In [44039]
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I think the coach is a minor problem.
Mar 22, 2017, 9:04 PM
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The elephant in the room is Clemson's support for basketball. Brownell had to scratch and claw for the new facilities. He stated that we needed them when he was hired. Did the athletic department help him? Well, not really - Brownell himself had to work his tail off to develop a stronger donor base for basketball. Finally, in year 7, he had his new facilities which merely caught us up to most of the other teams in the ACC.
Now that we have the new facilities, will we work hard to maintain them and perhaps even become trendsetters in facility upgrades? Or will we pat ourselves on the back for doing something nice for basketball, and let these facilities become outdated and fall behind yet again?
Does the coach have what he needs in terms of assistant coach salaries, support staff, etc.?
My guess is that the answer to these questions is no. Yet, somehow, we expect our coach - whoever he is - to make do and still have us be successful. Is it any wonder we have had so many coaches who failed to meet our expectations? The few who did quickly left for greener pastures.
It's sad, and it is so avoidable.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Basketball Recruiting is the problem........
Mar 22, 2017, 11:26 PM
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We have to be willing to go after some of the "one and done" players.
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Legend [19668]
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I have no doubt we pursue them
Mar 22, 2017, 11:29 PM
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as do most schools. But those guys are almost exclusively going to a handful of schools. Zion is someone we have an in with as his dad played here and he's local. Aren't many of those though
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All-TigerNet [13238]
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Amen!!
Mar 22, 2017, 11:44 PM
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We've hung on in games, against much better teams, with a huge gap discrepancy. We even start to get some of the talent that a UNC or DUKE (or heck, FSU) has, we'll win a lot more games.
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