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Topic: B sample, unfortunately, ...
Replies: 26   Last Post: Dec 24, 2018 7:20 PM by: 31 Savage
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Replies: 26  

B sample, unfortunately, ...

[3]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:01 PM
    Reply

... is from the same sample collection as A. So if A is a fail B is also likely a fail. Unless something unethical happened with sample A. That’s why there is redundancy built into the testing procedure.

I don’t mean to be a Debbie Downer but I believe that’s the outlook. If someone wants to correct my understanding, I’d gladly welcome it and would be very excited.

I’d hate to see big Dex go out this way. What a shame - such a great kid.


Who said he is leaving , Debbie?

[2]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:09 PM
    Reply

You just never know

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Re: Who said he is leaving , Debbie?

[1]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:10 PM
    Reply

If these players suspensions stand then they are suspended for an entire year. Dexter isn't sitting out an entire year


A 1 yr suspension would mean he and Zach are through***


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:11 PM
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Re: Who said he is leaving , Debbie?


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 5:02 PM
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That’s true. But I think it is safe to say that he is gone. Which is good for him. Had an amazing 3 years and going to make a boat load.


Re: Who said he is leaving , Debbie?


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 5:22 PM
    Reply

He's gone.... he's not sitting around another year. Good thing we have some quality depth.


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:20 PM
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From what I just finished reading about the drug, it is a capsule that you have to buy, and even though it's not like the usual steroids that people take for building muscle, OSTARINE (MK-2866) still promotes muscle building/growth, and it's less expensive than the other steroids, it's $149 bucks a cycle. So it wasn't something that just happen to be in a food or drink unless it's put in....

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Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:25 PM
    Reply

Ostarine has been out since 2008 or so. It's a SARM and not a true test based steroid. Most are research chemicals. It's very weak it what it does. Not sure why they would take this as results are not very good with it.


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:26 PM
    Reply

And supposedly it's not even available, or legal, to be used in other products, i,e, hair products, etc. The actual compound is patented and not available, if that makes sense.

So why would a reputable company put it in their hair products?

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Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:31 PM
    Reply

Exactly. Just sketchy supplement or research chemical companies are selling it and a bill was proposed this year to put them in the same banned substance list as traditional steroids due to people abusing them so much. A lot of them have been abandoned by research companies because of some side affects associated with them (google "cardarine"). Not safe and not many human trials have been done on them.


Sounds like something that doesn't happen by ACCIDENT***


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:32 PM
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Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...

[1]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:36 PM
    Reply

If you read on the website of the anti doping agency that monitors Olympics, you will see that many manufacturers put it in supplements and either do not declare it, or call it by another name. There is an extensive list on there of supplements that illegally have it present in them.


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...

[5]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:43 PM
    Reply

Guys, read up on it, please. This stuff is all over the place. Most energy drinks, alcoholic mixers, hair products, workout supplements, come from overseas manufacturers that also produce Ostarine.

Ostarine is made in many of the same facilities the ingredients for energy drinks, hair products, etc are made in. These places do not have the same contamination or quality control standards as we do over here. As such, contamination happens frequently. Almost all energy drinks have trace amounts of Ostarine.


Considering the integrity of our program, and the experience Lawrence as had going to the playoff 3 years in a row. and his track record of not having these issues, I think it is significantly more likely that he ingested a substance which was unknowingly contaminated. He knew a drug test was coming, and he's clearly not stupid.


Its absolutely idiotic to be saying "well, he should have known better" or "gee golly, its the rules!" when we know how problematic contamination is with this stuff.

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Actually, that's very much what can happen.


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 6:31 PM
    Reply

Supplements can be spiked with this drug (by accident, or on purpose even).

There was a triathlete who failed a test as her Salt tablet had trace amounts of Ostarine, even though the supplement was made in a WADA approved facility.

Even then, here sentence was reduced to the minimum 6 months. Yes, she was found 0% at fault, yet still had to sit out of competition for 6 months by the governing body.


https://www.triathlete.com/2017/02/lifestyle/ostarine-101-drug-behind-recent-positive-tests_299037

2019 white level member

Re: Actually, that's very much what can happen.

[1]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 6:53 PM
    Reply

She sat out 6 months because it took that long to prove her innocence. They gave her time served....


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 7:20 PM
    Reply

Just doesnt fit the character of these guys, something can't be right.


You're missing the point of Sample B

[1]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:31 PM
    Reply

It's not that it may be different than Sample A. The point of Sample B is to run the test again to confirm the same results. It's there because the test itself can often give false positives.

It's similar to taking a breathalyzer test more than once. You can get a reading on some devices even if you've never had a drink before in your life. Then, with a properly calibrated device, you'll show 0.000.

Basically, think of it as Test B. There are enough failures in the testing process to warrant a second look. That's why it exists.

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Re: You're missing the point of Sample B


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 4:37 PM
    Reply

The point of the B sample is to validate the test. The issue is that the article states “trace” amounts of the supplement meaning what was measured from the A sample is not enough to even quantify the amount. There are several possibilities that can trigger a trace amount such as equipment being contaminated, faulty reading, etc... that is why the B sample will be important to erase doubt and confirm there are trace amounts or vindicate them as bad reading.

The test doesn’t take but a few hours to complete so we should know something soon assuming the NCAA uses a reputable lab.


Re: You're missing the point of Sample B


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 5:15 PM
    Reply

There was a case of salt tablets possibly having the ingredient.

https://www.triathlete.com/2017/02/lifestyle/ostarine-101-drug-behind-recent-positive-tests_299037


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...

[6]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 5:19 PM
    Reply


... is from the same sample collection as A. So if A is a fail B is also likely a fail. Unless something unethical happened with sample A. That’s why there is redundancy built into the testing procedure.

I don’t mean to be a Debbie Downer but I believe that’s the outlook. If someone wants to correct my understanding, I’d gladly welcome it and would be very excited.

I’d hate to see big Dex go out this way. What a shame - such a great kid.



Even as an opposing fan, these positive tests seem fishy. Three players testing positive for same thing. If they're clean I hope it shows in the B sample*

*At the risk of Dexter having three sacks Saturday


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...

[2]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 5:22 PM
    Reply

What I hate about this situation is no matter what happens haters are gonna make us a dirty program. If the sample B comes back positive, even if it’s a “trace”, they’re gonna be like, “See? They’re cheaters.” If it comes back negative, “Well, I knew it. They’re sweeping under the rug. Too much money to lose.”

Anyway, I hope the result comes back negative and Big Dex and the crew get so mad about it to vent it out on the field.


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...

[1]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 5:25 PM
    Reply

Teams often come together and perform very well after major problems like this. That's my hope anyway.


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 6:48 PM
    Reply

This team has come together during 2 emotional events already this year and they will do it again if they have to. Do you think
Ferrell, Bryant, Watkins and the rest of the D Line are not going to play out of their minds for their brother?


Re: B sample, unfortunately, ...

[3]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 6:22 PM
    Reply

Yes, A and B come from same sample but B sample will be subjected to GS/MC testing which is much more accurate. If that test is positive the suspension will stand.
If it's true there was only a "sliver" found in A sample I'm willing to bet the B sample will come back negative.


I look at laboratory data every day....

[2]
Posted: Dec 24, 2018 6:28 PM
    Reply

There are so many factors in play that have nothing to do with a conspiracy.

It was only a trace amount detected which increases the uncertainty of the sample data.

There can be simple lab errors. They happen. Sometimes substances are introduced to samples at the lab by mistake.

Sometimes an original sample (sample A) and the associated duplicate sample (sample B) can be orders of magnitude different.

Sometime the levels are so low that the instrument is not good at detecting them.

Sometimes the instrument is contaminated from a sample previously analyzed.

I could go on and on...

I am hopeful Sample B will be a non-detect.

2019 white level member

I would like to know if sample B will be analyzed at a different lab.


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 6:29 PM
    Reply

?

2019 white level member

Re: I look at laboratory data every day....


Posted: Dec 24, 2018 6:32 PM
    Reply

Really good points. Obviously there is the immediate concern with ND and big dex. But if it is a one year suspension, that really stinks for Braden Galloway too. I thought he’d be a Star next season.


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