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Hall of Famer [21614]
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At a certain point all this white guilt has got to be put to
Aug 18, 2017, 11:44 AM
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bed.
I can't help I was born white. I can't help people before I was born did bad things to other people based on skin color. I am an individual and I do not deserve blame or guilt for the actions of others. I treat people based on their actions, not based on attributes they were born with. If someone accuses me of having "white privilege" then I am being judged for my skin color. I don't say ANYTHING remotely that prejudiced to anyone else and I genuinely want everyone to be treated equally and fairly.
We are seeing (thankfully rare) racially motivated violence against random white people throughout the country. As much as it troubles me that Muslims are experiencing random acts of xenophobic hatred it troubles me when I hear about white kids being attacked because the color of their skin. You can easily find a couple dozen examples of this on Youtube right now, if you have not seen these amateur videos already.
For perspective, you can not find even half of the same amount of examples showing black people being attacked because of their race. (not in the last quarter century) It's because society is impacting individuals behavior. Kids are being raised with this irrational political correctness and it is causing them to see evil where there is just a person. (similar to Trump's culpability in the increase in violent attacks on random American Muslims)
This is happening because racism has no definition any more. It used to be about treating someone worse because of their skin color. Now, it is malleable and used for political advantage. Confederates are being conflated with Nazi's, Republicans are being conflated with White nationalists, Trump supporters are being conflated with hate-mongers. Whiteness is being conflated with intangible privilege and white people are being told explicitly that the color of their skin literally prevents them from having a legitimate social perspective.
When this type of thing becomes normalized and trained victimization is coupled with ignorance, then whatever face represents the cause of all that "racism" becomes a target. Once this type of thing settles in, then we could end up in a similar situation to South Africa.
This is really happening in the world right now...
(Sad I have to say this, but this article was not written by a white person.)
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476
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All-In [28802]
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The answer isn't white identitarianism, though
Aug 18, 2017, 11:46 AM
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That's the temptation these alt-right folks have succumbed to. A better answer is 'e pluribus unum,' a recognition of the equal dignity of everybody.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I agree totally. Either we want race to matter or we don't
Apr 25, 2024, 5:57 PM
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I have a feeling that the VAST majority of white people no longer want race to matter at all.
I have a feeling that the average Trump supporter would gladly trade in all of their "privilege" if people shut up about race forever.
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All-In [49046]
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It's easy to say you don't want race to matter when
Aug 18, 2017, 11:52 AM
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the only "discrimination" your race has suffered as been of recent vintage. If you were part of a race that suffered discrimination on a much more horrible and larger scale for a couple hundred years, you'd probably be a lot less inclined to have race suddenly be something we stop talking about forever.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Someone born in 1980 didn't suffer in 1960.
Aug 18, 2017, 11:55 AM
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They don't own any suffering beyond their own experience. Just like my Jewish portion doesn't deserve to claim any victimhood from the Holocaust, and my Native American pieces don't get any points for the trail of tears and the rest of me doesn't deserve any victimhood points for all the other groups that crapped on my groups at some point.
My suffering came during my life. If people can grab victimhood from the past, then literally everyone is a super-victim
Either we want race to matter, or we don't.
You can't have it both ways.
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All-In [28802]
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What about generational wealth?
Aug 18, 2017, 12:10 PM
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I'm with you most of the way, but I think you do have to recognize that black families are still being hurt by the position some of their more recent ancestors were put in when they were kept out of jobs and good neighborhoods. Stuff like that takes time to correct.
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All-In [49046]
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What Cam said...
Aug 18, 2017, 12:34 PM
[ in reply to Someone born in 1980 didn't suffer in 1960. ] |
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It's like handicapping a relay race where every lap is run by the succeeding generation. The first few generations of blacks were just chained to the start finish line. At some point, the were unchained, but still had to wear leg irons and carry weights while they ran. Then they lost the weights, then the irons ultimately, but even if you could argue that they now are running the same race with the same handicaps, they are still several laps behind because of the past.
Affirmative action is like handing the guys who have been running free for a few hundred years some ###### running shoes and having them suddenly start notice and start bitching about whether the race is fair or not.
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Lot o points [155922]
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Couple things.....
Aug 18, 2017, 12:57 PM
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1) You're coming up with an analogy that demonstrates black people at a disadvantage, and you choose a footrace?
2) The next line at the end of your 2nd paragraph would be "the victim mentality that identity politics encourages is like turning down the free shoes and demanding a first place medal because they shouldn't have to run in the first place"
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All-In [28802]
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The problem is that people are taking that...
Aug 18, 2017, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to What Cam said... ] |
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and turning it into a reason to justify anything done in the name of progressive equality, and also using it to infringe on the rights of people they see as being members of groups they see as historical oppressors. That kind of thing has all the hallmarks of a radical hysteria, complete with elite scapegoats that have to confess their sins in order to "allies."
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All-In [29036]
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Certainly
Aug 18, 2017, 1:08 PM
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It is not the only cause of our current situation, and addressing it (even if we were to be able to determine the most just way of doing so) would not be some form of panacea.
This is, as you well know, an incredibly complex problem. I just don't see how some folks are able to deny the existence of this one factor.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The problem I have is the unreasonable elevation of
Aug 18, 2017, 5:03 PM
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race over all other factors. Identity politics has unrealistically inflated the importance of race against all other factors.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Race is not the only factor. Claiming that race alone proves
Aug 18, 2017, 5:02 PM
[ in reply to What Cam said... ] |
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that I have an advantage. That is insultingly dismissive of the rest of my individuality. And that is prejudice.
A poor, fat retarded white kid is screwed more than a poor, intelligent, athletic black kid.
People act like race is the most important way to get ahead in life. That's a joke.
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All-In [28802]
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Well, the left wing identitarians would just say...
Aug 18, 2017, 11:54 AM
[ in reply to I agree totally. Either we want race to matter or we don't ] |
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that you only want that because now minorities are using their race to gain power. What they don't seem to get is that by presenting politics as a racial zero sum game where the group with the best claim to victimhood wins, they're encouraging the people they present as their enemy to play the same game. If you keep telling white people how oppressive and privileged they, how they just can't understand your experience, etc., eventually some of them are just going to agree with you.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I'm saying everyone needs to get over it.
Aug 18, 2017, 12:00 PM
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Racial oppression isn't the only kind of societal setback. Gender, height, weight, attractiveness, family connections, personality, intelligence, all these things can seem "unfair."
Winners and losers will either win or lose. Our political climate is encouraging people to be losers so they can get social points for it.
My God look at Sierra Leone or Syria. THOSE people have systemic problems that they can blame on others.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Are short people given disproportionately harsh prison
Aug 18, 2017, 2:41 PM
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sentences?
Sure there are other factors to consider, but you're minimizing here and I'm not really sure why.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Not until they get inside.
Aug 18, 2017, 3:29 PM
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Then its MUCH worse.
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Lot o points [155922]
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All-TigerNet [11199]
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Racial indentity politics is running amok right now and it
Aug 18, 2017, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to The answer isn't white identitarianism, though ] |
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ain't a good thing. While it might be hard for folks to identify as "just American", instead of black or white, it should be a component in the collective thinking. If you're proud of your state, be a proud South Carolinian, you don't have to create an opponent to validate your South Carolina-ness. Springfielders don't have to hate Shelbyvillians to be proud of their city, etc...
It's OK to celebrate your group's culture without condemning a different group. It's cool to appreciate other groups cultures, it doesn't make you any less of who you are. I'm not a flag waving patriot, by any means, but I am glad to be an American, and I certainly don't think it requires me to look down on Mexicans or Canadians.
As I'm a Tiger, however, I might make some snide jokes at a Gamecock's expense. 
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All-In [31896]
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All-In [47796]
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Hillbilly Elegy
Aug 18, 2017, 11:57 AM
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should be required reading for anyone living in the Northeast states or on the west coast.
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All-In [48078]
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I don't believe many white people have white guilt.
Aug 18, 2017, 12:09 PM
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I think that is kind of kind of a contrived term for others to rag on other people who see the issue differently.
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All-In [29036]
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My take
Aug 18, 2017, 12:25 PM
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I don't have a shred of anything resembling white guilt. I am not guilty because of what other people did.
I do, however, understand that by being born white into a white family in this country I, through no merit or fault of my own, started a few steps ahead of some other folks. I don't have to feel guilty about it feel/see/believe that's it's real. I don't know the answer, but surely the question should be asked as to how to level the playing field when you take into account the generational benefits I had that may have been (most probably were) gained through racial inequalities in years/decades/generations past.
We'll never have true equality, as far too many factors play into it. However I don't see how my reaction to inequality that I may benefit from being pointed out to me should be for me to deny it, rather than trying to, as justly as possible, to address it, understand it, and attempt to rectify it.
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Lot o points [155922]
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Sorry Thom, gotta call BS on one line:
Aug 18, 2017, 12:30 PM
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"I do, however, understand that by being born white into a white family in this country I, through no merit or fault of my own, started a few steps ahead of some other folks."
Now maybe you started a few steps ahead by coming from a more highly educated family, or a family with wealth, or a two parent household, but that's not a function of you being white.
There are plenty of black families who have those things and those advantages, and plenty of white families that don't.
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All-In [29036]
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Come on now
Aug 18, 2017, 12:34 PM
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"Now maybe you started a few steps ahead by coming from a more highly educated family, or a family with wealth, or a two parent household, but that's not a function of you being white."
You don't see how those attributes you listed (wealth, education, family stability) are, at least in part, functions of opportunities allowed my ancestors based, again at least in part, on their race?
Again, I don't feel an ounce of guilt for it, because it's not of my own doing, but I can't see how people would be blind enough not to recognize it.
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Lot o points [155922]
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No, it's a false assumption.
Aug 18, 2017, 12:37 PM
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Let's say your parents attained those attributes via their whiteness.
For whiteness, in current times, in and of itself to be an inherent, across-the-board privilege, wouldn't all white (or even most white people) need to share in those attributes? They don't.
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All-In [49046]
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It's not an across the board presumption...
Aug 18, 2017, 12:40 PM
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but its a sound statistical one.
Being born black means you are more likely to be born into generational poverty.
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Lot o points [155922]
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So how about we say that being born into wealth
Aug 18, 2017, 12:41 PM
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is the privilege, and not "being white".
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All-In [49046]
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Because being born white makes you about 2.5 times less
Aug 18, 2017, 12:44 PM
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likely to be born into poverty?
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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does this idea of privilege based on statistical probability
Aug 18, 2017, 1:17 PM
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Of being born into poverty extend to Asians or any other group who are less likely to be poor than black people?
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All-In [49046]
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But more likely to be poor than whites...
Aug 18, 2017, 1:20 PM
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I haven't thought that much about it, but looking quickly at it since you asked there seems to be a general correlation between poverty rates and the length of oppression by white europeans. There is a descending line of:
Native Americans>Blacks>HIspanics>Asians>Whites
But there are other interesting things particular to asians. Asians have higher median incomes and higher college grad rates than whites but are still more likely to be born into poverty than whites.
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All-In [28802]
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May have more to do with recency of immigration
Aug 18, 2017, 1:22 PM
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Same thing goes for latinos.
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All-In [49046]
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Yeah, I just wanted to type
Aug 18, 2017, 1:23 PM
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white European oppression
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Lot o points [155922]
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Or it could imply that they have a cultural advantage.
Aug 18, 2017, 1:25 PM
[ in reply to May have more to do with recency of immigration ] |
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Let's be real clear lest someone get offended.....cultural, not genetic.
A culture that prioritizes family, education, and work and entrepreneurship as a means to prosperity will overcome historical oppression a lot faster than one that doesn't or does it to a lesser degree.
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All-In [49046]
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Your a white european oppressor...
Aug 18, 2017, 1:29 PM
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of course you would say that.
Just kidding, I agree.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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So that would seem to be indicative of some sort of
Aug 18, 2017, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to But more likely to be poor than whites... ] |
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privilege then, if they're able to escape the poverty they were #### into more readily than people of other races.
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Hall of Famer [24777]
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I see Spellcheck corrected that for you... ;~)***
Aug 18, 2017, 1:51 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Nope, those Asians do some heinous things on film
Aug 18, 2017, 2:08 PM
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Then they get out and go live their lives. Chicks like Mia Khalifa and Sasha Grey get slut shamed for life.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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The Jews have been oppressed for a millenia
Aug 18, 2017, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to But more likely to be poor than whites... ] |
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not just in America, but all over the earth.
Somehow, even while losing 6 million or so of their race in WW2, they seem to be doing OK.
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Legend [15749]
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Heres the issue. The unbelievable arrogance to think that
Aug 18, 2017, 4:22 PM
[ in reply to does this idea of privilege based on statistical probability ] |
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you can achieve a society if absolute equality of "starting point" is shocking.
You will twist yourselves in mental knots trying to account for it all. And it won't serve anyone.
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All-In [29036]
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No, I don't think it is
Aug 18, 2017, 12:44 PM
[ in reply to No, it's a false assumption. ] |
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It seems to me you are arguing that since the success of folks in my family's past is not ENTIRELY based on racial factors, that those factors played NO part.
An incredibly stupid and simple example:
3 people interview for 2 jobs. 2 have black hair, 1 is blonde. The boss says "I refuse to hire blonde people," and so the black haired folks get the jobs. One of them is an idiot and gets fired early. The other one succeeds at his job. The fact that the two now unemployed folks (the blonde and the fired black haired guy) both don't have jobs doesn't mean they had equal opportunities for success.
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All-In [49046]
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What does Chris Rock say?
Aug 18, 2017, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Come on now ] |
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Shaquille O'Neal is rich! The guy who signs his paychecks? He's wealthy!
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All-In [48078]
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I liked that one. I like this one too.
Aug 18, 2017, 12:45 PM
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It isn't that relevant, but I like it.
"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." J. Paul Getty
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All-In [34108]
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Obed, are you suggesting that blacks no longer
Aug 18, 2017, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to Sorry Thom, gotta call BS on one line: ] |
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suffer any disadvantage from racism in this country?
Leaving wealth aside, you think it's just as easy to be black as to be white, as a day to day thing in life?
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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this seems to be the perspective of many in the white
Aug 18, 2017, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to My take ] |
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Middle class, but I'm not sure how you tell the poor white kid in say, Cowpens SC that he has some sort of advantage due to generational benefits gained through racial inequality when he's living in the run down trailer his grandparents did and his dad works 60 hrs a week trying in vain to put food on his table.
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Lot o points [155922]
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That's my point, yet Thom's basic statement
Aug 18, 2017, 12:39 PM
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would indicate that kid has some inherent privilege. Not a chance.
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All-In [49046]
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Thom's basic statement isn't based on an anecdotal kid from
Aug 18, 2017, 12:43 PM
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Cowpens.
It's based on the fact that in the US 9% of whites live below the poverty line while 24% of blacks do.
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Lot o points [155922]
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So I'll assume your stats are correct and do some
Aug 18, 2017, 12:49 PM
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basic math.
303 million whites in the US.....that's 27 million whites +/- below the poverty line.
37 million blacks in the US.....that's 8.8 million blacks +/- below the poverty line.
How in the world is someone "a few steps ahead" just because they're white, at least taking Thom's initial post literally?
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All-In [29036]
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OK, let me clarify
Aug 18, 2017, 12:55 PM
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I was born into a situation where I had a few steps head start because of the hard work and dedication of my ancestors as they succeeded when they were given opportunities that they were granted, at least in part, based on the prevailing racial biases of the day.
Other families granted those same opportunities may not have succeeded, through any number of reasons, among them simple dumb bad luck.
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Lot o points [155922]
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Ok, I'll concede that.
Aug 18, 2017, 1:07 PM
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Not trying to be pedantic, but you and I are both guys that profess to believing that words matter, and your original post seemed dangerously over-simplistic.
I started typing a lot more on the topic but it's more than I can debate right now, so I'll save it for another time.
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All-In [29036]
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Words do matter, and I appreciate you parsing them.
Aug 18, 2017, 1:12 PM
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I, by no means, wanted to imply this was a non-complex problem/situation. I tried to put plenty of "at-least-in-part" style caveats in place in order to point to it being a much bigger picture than my post was able to convey.
Intelligent, well meaning people can disagree. Perhaps we simply do.
Or perhaps neither of us is as smart or well meaning as we think 
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Lot o points [155922]
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I'm smart enough to know that it's probably the latter. ;-)***
Aug 18, 2017, 1:13 PM
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All-In [49046]
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Legend [17915]
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Question on that...
Aug 18, 2017, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Thom's basic statement isn't based on an anecdotal kid from ] |
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Since I really do respect your opinion - but -do you think that condition exists today because of slavery from 150 years ago? Or, say, even from the injustices that occurred 40, 50, 60, or 70 years ago?
And, is one counting all of the benefits these "poor" people receive in the overall calculation of their wealth - or just that they apply for welfare? Because there are people making more on welfare than there are who work...so, are they choosing the life they have deliberately?
There is more to really consider than just what is spoken about - IMHO.
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All-In [49046]
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The poverty level is generally based on total income from
Aug 18, 2017, 1:08 PM
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any source, and includes govt benefits of any kind.
I think that condition exists today from a combination of factors. Effectively, if none of your ancestors were able to make any significant wealth for themselves, mostly through no fault of their own, and this condition didn't really change until maybe 30-40 years ago it creates a pretty solid disadvantage when you are talking about how someone is doing now.
I've always thought the most concrete example of privilege that I got as a kid was the fact that I didn't generally have to suffer the full consequences of my stupid decisions. I got kicked out of school, but not arrested. I got pulled over for open container, but not arrested. I have not once ever been pulled over by a cop and asked for anything other then my license and registration.
My friend got pulled over last week and was asked "Is this your car?" First question out of the cop's mouth was to question whether she even belonged in the car she was driving. Second question was about her window tint. My tint is darker than hers and I've never been asked about it in 3 times of getting pulled since I've had the car.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: The poverty level is generally based on total income from
Aug 18, 2017, 1:26 PM
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"My friend got pulled over last week and was asked "Is this your car?" First question out of the cop's mouth was to question whether she even belonged in the car she was driving."
I've had that happen but only once. (And its been 30 years ago)
Personally, i believe that it happens more than people think. Some people are just quicker to report it than others.
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Legend [17915]
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I only know of one kid expelled from school
Aug 18, 2017, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to The poverty level is generally based on total income from ] |
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he was white and was "mooning" cars behind the bus that I was driving when a high school senior. I had no clue what he was doing because I was driving up a mountain road and others helped him "hide" his actions from me. But I did not hesitate to identify him when the pieces came together and I was standing before a school board member (along with school leadership folk). Not for a second.
And when I did something wrong I got instruction from the board of education...just like the black kids in my class. Never saw any of them expelled for anything. Not even the crowd that gang jumped me, my sister and some other white kids when we were leaving school one day. Grammar school at that. Good thing a deputy was driving by when it happened! And yes, we were jumped because we were white.
I don't play racism with people. I like you or I don't. It will not have anything to do with the color of your skin - or even your sexual persuasion. But I am really getting tired of racial flaring that is happening - on both sides. I think it is just people who have nothing better to do than to hate other people...white or black.
One thing is for sure, if a nation can't look forward for staring at what happened yesterday it will certainly wreck again.
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All-In [49046]
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I was expelled for bringing a butterfly knife to school
Aug 18, 2017, 1:36 PM
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they chose not to prosecute it criminally.
Now, an SRO arrests your ### for that.
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Lot o points [155922]
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Man, Columbia was rough.
Aug 18, 2017, 1:38 PM
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In Greenville elementary schools, early 80's, the teachers had drawers full of of nunchuks, throwing stars, and butterfly knives. They kept taking them, we kept bringing them. Don't recall anyone getting kilt either.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Man, Columbia was rough.
Aug 18, 2017, 1:43 PM
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I remember brass knuckles as well. But can't recall anyone actually using them at school. I think it was more for show than anything.
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All-In [49046]
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I only cut one kid
Aug 18, 2017, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to Man, Columbia was rough. ] |
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and he was infringing on my nap mat, so I felt it was justified.
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Legend [17915]
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Well, back in the 70's we drove trucks with guns
Aug 18, 2017, 3:13 PM
[ in reply to Man, Columbia was rough. ] |
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in the back window. Nobody got kilt over that either!
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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I used to take a shotgun to high school almost every
Aug 18, 2017, 3:30 PM
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day, at least in the fall.
Nobody ever died.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: I was expelled for bringing a butterfly knife to school
Aug 18, 2017, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to I was expelled for bringing a butterfly knife to school ] |
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LOL
There was a 6 year old kid in my baby boys class who was expelled last year for having a plastic knife. Plastic as in one you can pick up from Hardees.
I was called while at work about a child having a knife. I drove the 70 miles home only to find out it was a freaking plastic knife that wont cut a biscuit. (Some of this mess is just ridiculous)
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Legend [17915]
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My wife got a call once - i was deployed at the time
Aug 18, 2017, 3:16 PM
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Because our son took a plastic water pistol to school. She had to go pick him up and she was warned that weapons are not allowed at school . Next time they were going to call the police. That was in Jacksonville - 1987ish
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All-In [28802]
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Politically speaking, how wise is it...
Aug 18, 2017, 1:03 PM
[ in reply to Thom's basic statement isn't based on an anecdotal kid from ] |
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to portray all of that difference as being due to historical (or current) discrimination? That seems to be the most politically correct thing to do, but I think it encourages fatalism through making people into victims who believe they don't have real agency. Now, it may be true that some people are at a disadvantage due to factors they can't control, but those people also have an equal opportunity to get an education and a good job just like everybody else now. It seems like too many people take the fact of generational poverty and interpret it as excepting them from the same things that everybody else does to get ahead.
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All-In [49046]
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Well, having parents who have given up on getting
Aug 18, 2017, 1:14 PM
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anywhere doesn't help either, but some of that is related to the parents and grandparents growing up when discrimination was still more of a thing that it is now.
We really do need to find a way to manage generational poverty, and to acknowledged manage the race based aspects of it to try and break that cycle that families fall into. But refusing to admit that there is an advantage is just as toxic to the process as refusing to admit there are other factors that affect the degree or maybe even the existence of that advantage in individual situations.
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Legend [15749]
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I disagree with your last sentence.
Aug 18, 2017, 1:25 PM
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In my opinion the "victim culture" is the most damaging thing for people lower on the economic scale.
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All-In [49046]
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I don't know if it's the most damaging or not
Aug 18, 2017, 1:33 PM
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but its still born of the fact that there was an actual victim reality not that long ago.
I think there has to be a multi-pronged approach to ending generational poverty. It's going to take some work on the part of the affected communities and the people around them that are able to help.
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Legend [15749]
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"but its still born of the fact that there was an actual victim reality not that long ago."
Aug 18, 2017, 2:28 PM
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Not relevant. I'm not talking about winning an arguement. I'm talking about what's best for a person in life. And being told that "you're supposed to fail because bad people stacked the deck against you in life" is the worst disservice I can think of that is currently done to a segment of society.
Makes one feel better about not trying, though. Also gets Democrats votes.
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All-In [49046]
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And conversely...
Aug 18, 2017, 2:38 PM
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saying "#### em they just have to work harder and they will be fine" makes one feel better about not helping. Also gets Trump votes.
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Legend [15749]
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Touché on the Trump thing.
Aug 18, 2017, 2:47 PM
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I didn't say they'd be fine or not. I have no idea how an individual will do in life. But yes, I'm saying that the message of "you are where you are but you can make your position better through hard work, persistence and sound decision making if you so choose" will more often than not be the better message to someone who is poor.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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unfortunately, life is not fair.
Aug 18, 2017, 3:32 PM
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Not matter how much we try to legislate that it is.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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All-In [28802]
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That's the aspect of it that makes the most sense
Aug 18, 2017, 1:06 PM
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But it seems like a lot of the people using that term want it to mean literally anything good that happens to a white or male person, while anything negative that happens to a woman or minority is just due to white/male oppression. It's an easy way of deflecting any personal responsibility, but it's also hard to dismiss because there's an inkling of truth there.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Claiming that I have advantages because of my skin color
Aug 18, 2017, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to My take ] |
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is an insulting disregard of all the other parts of my life that may more than compensate for that.
It's dismissive of the rest of my individuality. And THAT is the true definition of prejudice.
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Legend [15749]
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Just taking your first sentence...that's the great thing
Aug 18, 2017, 12:38 PM
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about this concept as a tool to get your way. No, it doesn't have to end. It is a limitless pool of moral outrage. Once you accept the premise that your race makes you guilty of a crime that did not exist in your lifetime, because a very few members of the race you belong to were the majority of the perpetrators of the crime in our section of the world, they basically can get whatever they want from you.
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All-In [48078]
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Has anyone in here ever known or met anyone who..
Aug 18, 2017, 12:46 PM
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actually has white guilt?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Yes***
Aug 18, 2017, 5:04 PM
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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South Africa is completely different than America
Aug 18, 2017, 12:52 PM
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Land was stolen from the people of South Africa.
This would be like Native Americans fighting white people to get their land back.
War happens, life sucks sometimes.
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All-In [28802]
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More like colonized
Aug 18, 2017, 1:10 PM
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In South Africa, the Zulus had their own nation and fought the British and lost. As you said, it's the kind of thing that's happened throughout history, and it sucks, but it's not abnormal. I don't think imperialism is a good thing, but I think it's more important to judge how historical empires governed the areas they colonized than it is to judge the imperialism at this point. Besides, I doubt all the land the Zulu controlled at the time the British fought them was theirs throughout all history, the same as the indians the US fought had been fighting amongst themselves for control of land for a long time.
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Interesting
Aug 18, 2017, 2:35 PM
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But still, the distinction between Africans being forced over to America as slaves with being colonized by the Brits is a very important factor on how people would behave towards Europeans.
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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I don't feel white guilt, pride or shame in my ancestors
Aug 18, 2017, 12:53 PM
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who fought to enslave other human beings. I am not my brother's keeper and I do not share those views.
Therefore, when people rightly point out the racist Southern heritage and past I do not feel the need to defend them or to create a false equivalence.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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You still holding on to that fantasy piece of writing that
Aug 18, 2017, 1:56 PM
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you presented here that said that places that had slaves are more racist than other places that didn't?
Have you ever been to Atlanta?
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Legend [15492]
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Re: At a certain point all this white guilt has got to be put to
Aug 18, 2017, 6:42 PM
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Your synopsis. Black people do it, so white people doing it isn't so bad.
I disagree. Instead of condemning both, you use one to diminish the impact of the other.
Not buying it.
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