Replies: 70
| visibility 1
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30730
Joined: 8/11/15
|
You lawyers on the board, can someone explain to me
Dec 11, 2020, 8:34 AM
|
|
how Texas et al have standing in this case they are sending to the supreme court?
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: You lawyers on the board, can someone explain to me
Dec 11, 2020, 9:09 AM
|
|
They don't actually, but they are claiming that those mean people in PA, Mi, AZ. and GA. who voted for Biden disenfranchised their votes for Trump.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30730
Joined: 8/11/15
|
I hope they had a parachute for that leap
Dec 11, 2020, 9:10 AM
|
|
If that's true, then anybody who votes against my preferred candidate disenfranchises me.
Which is not the definition of disenfranchisement.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33611
Joined: 9/13/99
|
It doesn't.***
Dec 11, 2020, 9:13 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65818
Joined: 5/6/13
|
I understand the basis of their case, but it seems like they
Dec 11, 2020, 9:13 AM
|
|
are squandering the argument.
I'd love feedback from the lawyers in here, but it feels like there could be some precedent established in this weak case that could be used against them in a more solid case, such as making the same argument against states if the Interstate popular vote compact ever reaches critical mass.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30730
Joined: 8/11/15
|
Hey
Dec 11, 2020, 9:20 AM
|
|
what?
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65818
Joined: 5/6/13
|
I’ll draw some MS Paint pics and repost.***
Dec 11, 2020, 9:21 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30730
Joined: 8/11/15
|
No need. Just draw it in poop on a wall***
Dec 11, 2020, 9:21 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33611
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Re: I understand the basis of their case, but it seems like they
Dec 11, 2020, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to I understand the basis of their case, but it seems like they ] |
|
Not sure who you are saying is squandering something. The potential dangerous precedent is that if the States are allowed to file suit after every election, the Supreme Court will be in charge of every election.
The Supreme Court will never allow that to be the precedent. A similar rule applies to voters who are unhappy with the outcome of an election. They lack standing to sue.
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65818
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Sorry, I may not be clear, or am just missing the
Dec 11, 2020, 10:38 AM
|
|
legal mark....
I'm saying if the court were to make a broad judgement and rule that another state's voters cannot disenfranchise the voters of another state, would that not be a precedent?
And if, down the road, a more "serious" case arose, such as the Interstate popular vote compact becoming reality, and a non IPV state files suit on the same grounds (their voters being disenfranchised by those of another state), could the precedent from this case not be used against them in that case?
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
I don't understand how, in any scenario,
Dec 11, 2020, 12:15 PM
|
|
even this "interstate popular vote" thing (which I think is silly), voters in another state could say they've been disenfranchised.
If another state chooses to appoint their electors in a different way, that's their business. I can think it's wrong and not like it, but I'm not disenfranchised by it.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Seems like the ones disenfranchised would be
Dec 11, 2020, 12:16 PM
|
|
the ones within those states.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33611
Joined: 9/13/99
|
That's correct.***
Dec 11, 2020, 2:24 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
If the other states legally choose to appoint their electors
Dec 11, 2020, 12:29 PM
|
|
in a different way, then it's not illegitimate. It might be really stupid, and against what I believe in, and if I lived there, I might move, but it's not illegal.
See, you just said something that I don't think the Texas AG can say out loud, but I think it's true. What they don't want is Joe Biden being President, because they think that's bad for them and the country. It's not about whether other states followed the law or not. It's about not wanting a bad President. That's why they are only suing states that Biden won.
Obviously, Texas cannot argue in court that they are damaged by Biden being President, because it hasn't even happened yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: If the other states legally choose to appoint their electors
Dec 11, 2020, 12:47 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49037]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38810
Joined: 12/31/97
|
And how does the PA legislature's power
Dec 11, 2020, 12:48 PM
|
|
get delegated to the Texas AG?
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: And how does the PA legislature's power
Dec 11, 2020, 12:52 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30730
Joined: 8/11/15
|
So to get this straight. More people in PA voted for Biden
Dec 11, 2020, 12:54 PM
|
|
but because election officials "didn't follow their laws" A completely different state is saying to invalidate those millions of votes and make the state legislature (of a state they have nothing to do with) vote for who's president. Not the people. Their vote doesn't matter.
And you're ok with this.
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: So to get this straight. More people in PA voted for Biden
Dec 11, 2020, 12:56 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49037]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38810
Joined: 12/31/97
|
Legislatures delegate their authority all the time...
Dec 11, 2020, 12:58 PM
|
|
sometimes to the executive and sometimes to the administrative agencies charged with handling day to day crap.
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Legislatures delegate their authority all the time...
Dec 11, 2020, 1:01 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4745]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8641
Joined: 2/7/02
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: At least you are consistent. SCOTUS is NOT going
Dec 11, 2020, 1:46 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38237
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
This subthread is not about Texas lawsuit situation.
Dec 11, 2020, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: And how does the PA legislature's power ] |
|
At least I didn't think it was.
This subthread is about the scenario of a state deciding to choose its electors in a different way, like using national popular vote.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49037]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38810
Joined: 12/31/97
|
But if they wanted to exercise that power, why didn't they?
Dec 11, 2020, 12:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: And how does the PA legislature's power ] |
|
They had every opportunity to do so from the very moment the law was enacted. They chose not to.
if they chose not to, why does the Texas AG think he can make them?
This case is frivolous ########.
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: But if they wanted to exercise that power, why didn't they?
Dec 11, 2020, 12:57 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24763]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42486
Joined: 7/31/10
|
So when they lost, they now have "standing"...? Nice.***
Dec 11, 2020, 1:48 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Yep, that's what he said.
Dec 11, 2020, 1:59 PM
|
|
Texas AG can't say that out loud, but it's the reality. If PA had gone for the President, with the same "illegal" apparatus, they wouldn't have sued them.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24763]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42486
Joined: 7/31/10
|
Has DRad called Swoffie about the ND game yet...?***
Dec 11, 2020, 2:10 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5675]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12157
Joined: 9/28/08
|
Re: I don't understand how, in any scenario,
Dec 11, 2020, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't understand how, in any scenario, ] |
|
Right it is simple, and I see it the same way. The big question in my mind is is there proof the exec branches in those states broke the law? But, maybe since electors are used instead of popular votes, the argument is weaker.
Agree, though, the SC may not want to take the case just because they don't want to set the precedent of taking one like this...
Seems to me, there should be clarity at the level of their (SC) legal thinking on whether or not the case has merit. Just have to wait and see...
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4745]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8641
Joined: 2/7/02
|
The Texas case is going nowhere. My guess is we get
Dec 11, 2020, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't understand how, in any scenario, ] |
|
the word back from SCOTUS late this afternoon, or worst case Monday morning.
Trumps tweet tone today lends one to believe he knows it is dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
It's not just because it's two different states...
Dec 11, 2020, 2:11 PM
|
|
It'd be thrown out because Texas was not damaged, therefore has no standing. It's not a blanket statement about all cases between states.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49037]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38810
Joined: 12/31/97
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
May I ask a question then?
Dec 11, 2020, 2:23 PM
|
|
Does 'Motion for Leave to File a Bill of Complaint,' mean anything to a lawyer?
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Here:
Dec 11, 2020, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to If the SCOTUS doesn't hear the case they will... ] |
|
"The complaint, on its face, presents a “controvers[y] between two or more States” that this Court alone has authority to adjudicate. 28 U. S. C. §1251(a). The plaintiff States have alleged significant harms to their sovereign interests caused by another State. Whatever the merit of the plaintiff States’ claims, we should let this complaint proceed further rather than denying leave
without so much as a word of explanation.
Cite as: 577 U. S. ____ (2016) 5 THOMAS, J., dissenting
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33611
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Thomas's dissent is the opposite of what the law is.***
Dec 11, 2020, 2:33 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
So he's an activist judge?***
Dec 11, 2020, 2:35 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33611
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Sort of. Here's why.
Dec 11, 2020, 2:47 PM
|
|
In that dissent, Thomas (joined by Alito) reasons that the Supreme Court has no discretion about taking cases so long as it is between two States. At the same time, he acknowledges that it already the law of land that the Supreme Court has discretion.
So, to the effect he's trying to reverse an existing body of case law, that's somewhat activist. But wait! There's more. In that same dissent, Thomas admits that he has applied the law of the land in other dissents! Got that? He's admitting that, depending on how he felt about different cases, he wanted to either apply the discretionary rule or undo the discretionary rule.
For anyone who wants to read the dissent, it's linked below. Citation is Nebraska v. Colorado, 136 S. Ct. 1034 (2016).
I also recommend Thomas and Scalia's dissent in Wyoming v. Oklahoma, 502 U.S. 437 (1992), where they think that the discretionary rule should have been followed:We exercise this discretion even with respect to controversies between two or more States, which fall within our original and exclusive jurisdiction. Linked that one below as well.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/144orig_6479.pdf
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/502/437/
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33611
Joined: 9/13/99
|
That's the same link I just gave you.
Dec 11, 2020, 3:29 PM
|
|
Not sure what to do from here.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
I was just saying I'd read that previously to you posting it
Dec 11, 2020, 3:33 PM
|
|
I introduced the Nebraska v Col and Thomas descent and that's where I got it. I didn't get that from Q but don't tell spooneye®, he's kinda sensitive about Q for some reason.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33611
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Re: I was just saying I'd read that previously to you posting it
Dec 11, 2020, 3:45 PM
|
|
I am spooneye®. That's who you are talking with now.
OK, so to clarify: I read the case that you mentioned, and then I told you why it's judicial activism, and I linked you to another case to illustrate the point.
Did you understand my answer about why it's judicial activism?
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49037]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38810
Joined: 12/31/97
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
I read the entire sentence.
Dec 11, 2020, 2:58 PM
|
|
I bring your attention to this 'we should let this complaint proceed further,' as his opinion on whether or not it should be heard. 'Rather than,' as a conjunction which is properly respective of other conjunction such as 'opposed to, instead of,' and 'sooner than.'
"The complaint, on its face, presents a “controvers[y] between two or more States” that this Court alone has authority to adjudicate. 28 U. S. C. §1251(a). The plaintiff States have alleged significant harms to their sovereign interests caused by another State. Whatever the merit of the plaintiff States’ claims, we should let this complaint proceed further rather than denying leave without so much as a word of explanation."
I so want to say something nasty and dismiss you as easily as you dismiss me.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49037]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38810
Joined: 12/31/97
|
Go for it...
Dec 11, 2020, 3:14 PM
|
|
I don't really get my feelings hurt. It's part of the job.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Re: Go for it...
Dec 11, 2020, 3:37 PM
|
|
I also took the last phrase of his descent as a shot at the majority opinion. It sounded like something my grandmother would say. Wait, it sounds like something I would say now. Oh hell, I'm turning into my grandmother.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49037]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38810
Joined: 12/31/97
|
I don't think you can read too much into a dissent...
Dec 11, 2020, 3:44 PM
|
|
as Spooneye pointed out a Justice who suggests on one day that discretion is unfounded will suggest on another that it is imperative. Thus, it does not establish any precedent.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Re: I understand the basis of their case, but it seems like they
Dec 11, 2020, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to I understand the basis of their case, but it seems like they ] |
|
Nebraska v Colorado over pot law was rejected for review but the descent by Alito and Thomas was strong. Since, three of the majority are no longer on the court. That's just about hearing the case though. There's a ton written covering similarities though not many cases to cover. Every article has it's own life so you have to wade through the writer's opinion but those dozen or so I've read have quotes and links to actual cases.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: You lawyers on the board, can someone explain to me
Dec 11, 2020, 9:19 AM
|
|
I can't really comment from the lawyer perspective, but I am a borderline compulsive gambler. Is that okay? With those credentials with my basic logic, this doesn't help Trump get a 2nd term in any way. Trump is done. Why are people still even "debating" it. It's over.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
|
Why go to all of this trouble when this election was
Dec 11, 2020, 9:25 AM
|
|
actually a large sting operation to catch the Democrat and the Deep State fraud. Why has the trap not been sprung? Is SCOTUS part of the Deep State and this is part of the plan to expose them as well?
The only thing that is clear is that Trump will be President for life and the succession will follow though his male offspring.
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24763]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42486
Joined: 7/31/10
|
Ivanka's pixxed... Jared's calling Jerusalem...***
Dec 11, 2020, 1:52 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9784
Joined: 4/27/13
|
Re: You lawyers on the board, can someone explain to me
Dec 11, 2020, 9:27 AM
|
|
only the fake ballots need to be thrown out, and maybe the duplicate votes
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6709
Joined: 8/3/09
|
Re: You lawyers on the board, can someone explain to me
Dec 11, 2020, 9:29 AM
|
|
so nothing needs to be done and we can quit wasting money and the time of the court
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38237
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9784
Joined: 4/27/13
|
Re: And how do you know which ones are fake?***
Dec 11, 2020, 9:37 AM
|
|
start with the mail in ballots without dates or signatures if they havent been shredded
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38237
Joined: 11/30/98
|
And what exactly...
Dec 11, 2020, 9:39 AM
|
|
Makes a ballot automatically fake if it lacks a signature or date? How many of those ballots are there?
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9784
Joined: 4/27/13
|
Re: And what exactly...
Dec 11, 2020, 9:42 AM
|
|
votes should be verified, as if you are voting in person, otherwise there is no equal protection
barrett will explain it to you
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38237
Joined: 11/30/98
|
So how many...
Dec 11, 2020, 9:47 AM
|
|
Illegal mail-in ballots were there? Let me guess. Just enough to give Trump the win.
Doesn't look like Barrett is going to explain anything other than how stupid all these lawsuits are.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30730
Joined: 8/11/15
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [757]
TigerPulse: 72%
Posts: 1487
Joined: 5/23/12
|
^^ This^^***
Dec 11, 2020, 5:20 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30730
Joined: 8/11/15
|
Oh yeah? well then why is biden still winning?***
Dec 11, 2020, 11:45 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [81061]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56139
Joined: 9/13/04
|
something something "substantive due process"
Dec 11, 2020, 3:41 PM
|
|
something something "the election wasn't fair" something something Texas wants to make everyone have the same election laws as everyone else.
I just listened to Ben Shapiro explain it all, and he basically said its a BS lawsuit.
If somehow this were to work for Trump, we prob are looking at civil war and military lockdowns.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30155
Joined: 9/9/06
|
As the Montana Governor points out...
Dec 11, 2020, 5:10 PM
|
|
If Texas is able to actually win this case (it won't and likely won't even be heard by the Supreme Court) it won't give the election to Trump, it'll just mean chaos. It says something when that's preferable to one side over simply losing an election.
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: As the Montana Governor points out...
Dec 11, 2020, 5:23 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30155
Joined: 9/9/06
|
1. The Governor is pointing out the hypocrisy and illogic
Dec 11, 2020, 6:09 PM
|
|
used in the Texas case. The point is if Texas' AG really believed he or his state was harmed he would have also sued Montana. He's not saying Texas can't sue, just that it's clear that the reason behind the case is trying to overturn the election result because their guy lost.
If you don't think overturning an election where more than 160 million votes were cast and no evidence has been presented that there was widespread fraud or any reason to throw those votes out, then we live in two different realities and we'll have to agree to disagree. (Although, we at least live in the same reality where we both agree this case will not go anywhere)
|
|
|
|
Replies: 70
| visibility 1
|
|
|