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110%er [5430]
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Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 10:24 AM
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Frank didn’t want blacks to play
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All-In [25869]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 11:03 AM
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U of SuC never had a black QB until not long ago.
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Walk-On [118]
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Yes we ought to.
Jun 11, 2020, 11:10 AM
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I was going to come on here and troll y'all--but seriously we need to change the names of pretty much everything in our society. Y'all do realize that when we score a touch down, we chant a white supremacist's name?
Frank Howard could have defied the rules. It was a free country then. There were college sports programs integrating. He refused to. The fact that a black player, Marion Reeves, didn't play until after Frank Howard left is absolutely damning. Frank Howard oversaw a program that refused to recruit Black players. He, from a position of power, supported a system of white supremacy. That is unacceptable, and he should not be honored with the name of a football field.
Message was edited by: tcihgiecragso®
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110%er [5430]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 11:18 AM
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So were Tillman and Calhoun
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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yes, but Frank never owned or killed anyone to my knowledge
Jun 11, 2020, 11:27 AM
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but if you know of something that he did that was as horrible as Tillman, please inform and provide proof
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110%er [5121]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Are we changing the name of the football field ] |
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Tillman and Calhoun were extraordinarily horrible people, even in their time. They weren’t just your regular farmer that had a couple slaves.
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Standout [329]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:22 PM
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Name will be changed if any are changed
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are we changing the name of the football field ] |
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Clemson was also an extraordinarily racist person. To the extent to which he literally said that slavery was at all times a "positive good" for enslaved people.
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Legend [19902]
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That was Calhoun***
Jun 11, 2020, 1:43 PM
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Walk-On [118]
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That was Clemson*****
Jun 11, 2020, 2:01 PM
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Per the Clemson University Biography of Thomas Green Clemson:
Thomas Clemson would later write of slavery, “My experience tells me that the Institution of slavery is at all times good for the Negro (no laborers in the world are so well off.) At times good for the master, but very bad for the state”
So yes, it was Calhoun. But it was also TG Clemson. He was just as much of a racist and disgusting person as Calhoun was.
https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/bios/thomas-g-clemson.html
Message was edited by: tcihgiecragso®
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are we changing the name of the football field ] |
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You could argue Calhoun was a product of his time, seeing as he was born in the 1700s and died a decade before the Civil War. Holding slaves is a terrible thing but it could be argued that his entire life was during legal & accepted slavery.
However while Tillman was born in a slave state, by the time he was 18 the Civil War was over and the slaves had been freed. The country was changing for the better and he not only resisted it, he both threatened and advocated for violence against blacks. You could argue that was a popular stance for Southern whites at the time, but that doesn't excuse it and he shouldn't be honored on campus because of it.
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:38 PM
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Trying to find minute differences between the racism of Tillman and the racism of Calhoun is horrifying. Calhoun benefited economically and socially from the system as it was. There were abolitionists active during Calhoun's time, both Black and white. Calhoun held people as slaves. He enslaved people. People lived their entire lives on Clemson's campus as enslaved people.
Fort Hill should be sold for firewood. Every thing that bears Calhoun's name should be destroyed. He can live on the history books; we won't forget him--he was a monster. We also cannot forgive him and gloss over his atrocities.
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110%er [5430]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:45 PM
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White slave owners were not as bad to slaves vs black slave owners
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 2:44 PM
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There were black slave owners, but there is no evidence that they were "worse" than white slave owners.
https://www.theroot.com/did-black-people-own-slaves-1790895436 Did Black People Own Slaves? Editor's note: For those who are wondering about the retro title of this black history series, please take a moment to learn about historian Joel A. Rogers, author of the 1934 book 100 Amazing Facts About the Negro With Complete Proof, to whom these "amazing facts" are an homage.
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Standout [329]
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Varsity [201]
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There were plenty of people then who knew it was wrong
Jun 11, 2020, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to Yes we ought to. ] |
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Mistreating people who are different from you has always been a choice.
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Orange Blooded [3503]
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Re: There were plenty of people then who knew it was wrong
Jun 11, 2020, 1:02 PM
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Yep. Good and evil have never been relative to the time or the circumstance. One may justify bad/evil, but it’s still evil.
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Trainer [42]
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Re: There were plenty of people then who knew it was wrong
Jun 11, 2020, 1:08 PM
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Do you people even know the history of segregation and integration in the south and the rest of the country concerning schools.
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Trainer [42]
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Trainer [42]
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Re: Yes we ought to.
Jun 11, 2020, 1:46 PM
[ in reply to Yes we ought to. ] |
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It was state law you ever hear of segregation? That was a dumb untrue statement.
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Orange Blooded [4711]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 11:40 AM
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BLM would say that you should end the football program all together since it was founded on racist principles by racist men. Of course they think the same thing about the Constitution and America so that should tell you something about their true agenda.
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Team Captain [471]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 12:50 PM
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BLM would say that you should end the football program all together since it was founded on racist principles by racist men. Of course they think the same thing about the Constitution and America so that should tell you something about their true agenda.
Please stop. That is truly an idiotic statement.
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110%er [5430]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:43 PM
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It’s spot in
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All-In [34486]
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If you agree with it, that's pretty much
Jun 11, 2020, 2:07 PM
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proof that it is, in fact, NOT spot on.
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Standout [329]
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:50 PM
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This is dumb. Black Lives Matter is an organization fighting for the end of systemic racism against Black people. That is not inherently Marxist.
Marx argued that our material conditions determine our actions, both as people and as a society. Marx would argue that racism is a result of material conditions--the purposeful separation and classification of the working class, the proletariat, in order to divide and conquer and in turn be able to control the means of material, economic production. For Marx, this "historical materialism" determines what happens.
Many Marxists and Critical Race Theorists have similarly aligned goals--the liberation of people from oppression--but Critical Race Theory states that society is ordered not on these material conditions, but rather that racial hierarchies developed over time as a means to gain power and order society. This has manifested as "white supremacy" and "white privilege"--whiteness being the norm, the goal. Racism, according to a Critical Race Theorist, is embedded in American and Western Society, and that in order to end oppression of all people and of all types (social, economic, gender/sexuality), racism must be destroyed.
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All-In [39020]
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Racism is embedded into society and it must be destroyed
Jun 11, 2020, 1:53 PM
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so they want to destroy society.
Seems you agree.
Now into the helicopter, red.
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Racism is embedded into society and it must be destroyed
Jun 11, 2020, 2:06 PM
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I simply explained the post's incorrect labeling of Black Lives Matter as "Marxist".
But yes, we need to reconstruct our society. And that is OK! That doesn't mean we are jumping in a helicopter! A society with more racial equity will be a society with less disparity between the rich and poor. Better health outcomes. Better education. Everyone will benefit if we destroy white supremacy.
You think society, with all the embedded racism and classism, is good as is? You think the levels of poverty we have as a society are acceptable? That people are dropping dead from Covid-19? I sure don't.
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110%er [5640]
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Re: Racism is embedded into society and it must be destroyed
Jun 11, 2020, 2:28 PM
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Racial equity...so HOW DO YOU GET THERE? An anti-solution is continuation of dependence on the government. The solution has to be focused on education and independence. Anything else, and YOU are the racist for supporting progressive liberal democrats who want to keep blacks down, out, poor and block-voting democrat.
You don't give people fish, you teach them to fish. Always has been and always will be true. You gotta have the guts to know this is true and not fall into the trap of your feel-good solutions that do nothing long term.
War on poverty has been going for ~60 years. That's SIXTY, SIX-ZERO years. It has not worked and is not going to work.
Education is the only answer and education cannot be given to someone. They have to first want to educate themselves.
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Racism is embedded into society and it must be destroyed
Jun 11, 2020, 2:42 PM
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The "War on Poverty" started by the Johnson administration was *working*. Nixon was open to the idea of a Universal Basic Income. Reagan dismantaled it in order to lower taxes on the rich. Progressive policies like the Green New Deal, canceling student debt, Universal Health Care, will make racial equity possible instead of a buzzword.
This stuff works--if the rich and greedy at the top get out of the way, or are forced out of the way. The neoliberal policies of Reagan, Bush 1 and 2, Clinton, Obama, Trump--they have failed us. It's not you versus me. It is the masses against the few, the rich, the powerful.
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110%er [5640]
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Re: Racism is embedded into society and it must be destroyed
Jun 11, 2020, 4:10 PM
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You are truly ignorant in so many ways I cannot begin to write them.
Maybe the bottom line is the only people following liberal universities (including sports) will be liberals themselves. College sports will die.
One thing that has connected me to Clemson has been the conservative nature of it as an organization. Dabo is obviously very conservative. If he was liberal, it would be a complete turnoff.
But, as a whole the university situation is a significant problem for the country, and the feds should cut funding any research involving non US Citizens. We are exporting people and technologies that will kill us.
If a racism destroyer comes to my house they will be met with overwhelming force - what should have been used against the rioters.
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Walk-On [118]
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Re: Racism is embedded into society and it must be destroyed
Jun 11, 2020, 4:26 PM
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All-In [39020]
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Standout [329]
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Orange Blooded [4784]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 11:42 AM
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Coach Howard had to comply with the ACC. After Maryland broke
the color barrier, it changed. You are wrong to slam a Clemson
Legend. I grew up a Clemson fan and Frank was still there after
my tour in the Military and after I married. I hated to see him
retire but it was the best thing.
Message was edited by: irmotig®
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 11:43 AM
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If someone pays the school enough.
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Trainer [42]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:02 PM
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Lets get one thing straight the state would not allow blacks in to school. I know for a fact all the southern coaches would have accepted black players.
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Legend [19902]
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Clemson admitted its first black student in 1963
Jun 11, 2020, 4:25 PM
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and Frank Howard retired at the end of the 1969 season.
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Trainer [42]
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Re: Are we changing the name of the football field
Jun 11, 2020, 1:19 PM
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Sorry you are 100% incorrect. I knew Howard and he would have played a black players in a minute. Quit spreading trash.
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Legend [19902]
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110%er [7169]
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#### off***
Jun 11, 2020, 8:07 PM
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