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Orange Blooded [3571]
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Question about B12 defenses...
Nov 24, 2018, 12:13 AM
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Are the defenses bad because of the offenses? Oklahoma is a recruiting matching and yes BV was a D-Co at that program but it I seem to remember their defenses being porous with him and Little Stoops running the show. One has to wonder if they feel like they have to recruit smaller faster defenders to try to keep up w the the pace of the offenses. I’m just spit balling here but I find it hard to believe that the the defenses as a whole are just that bad. Is it a result of the offenses? It’s a chicken and egg type scenario. Be interesting to see if Miles tries to take the air out of the ball at Kansas’s and limit the opponents offense.
Personally I’d like to see Riley’s offense go up against Saban. He shredded Georgia for 3 arts bit they had just enough D to stop Oklahoma a few times. It’s an interesting theory they have in that part of the country. I’m surprised a Texas or Oklahoma hasn’t invested more in trying to develop better defenses and slow down their offenses just a bit.
Curious what others think
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Question about B12 defenses...
Nov 24, 2018, 12:17 AM
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That may be the case. Last year Oklahoma put up 48 points and 531 yards on UGA.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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UGA defense gave up big yards to the only 2 good offenses
Nov 24, 2018, 12:23 AM
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They faced. Tua scorched their secondary in the 2nd half.
Way over rated defense.
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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They finished 11th on defense. They were fine.***
Nov 24, 2018, 8:35 AM
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CU Guru [1955]
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Re: Question about B12 defenses...
Nov 24, 2018, 2:25 AM
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What defense? The Big 12 just doesn't play any "D." Sure, you could say OK's D scored twice, but that was because Grier put it on the ground for OK. Any high school can pick up a gift & run it in.
W.Va should have just kept sending #12 long for 50+ yarders & TDs. OK had no answer for Grier-to-#12.
Would love to see Murray against a constant BV blitz every play. Play a REAL "D" & we'll see how many points OK DOESN'T score.
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Legend [16470]
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I will let you know when I see one***
Nov 24, 2018, 7:10 AM
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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As recently as 2009, the B12 had 3 top 10 defenses
Nov 24, 2018, 8:11 AM
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In 2009 the Big 12 had 3 defenses ranked in the top 10: Texas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma. Brent Venables was the defensive coordinator at Oklahoma and they had the #8 ranked defense. The defenses went to crap starting around 2011 when the league split up due to conference realignment and Baylor started to dominate the league with their run-and-gun style. Brent Venables left after the 2011 season (Oklahoma had the #55 defense that year). Since then, Oklahoma's defense (as well as others in the Big 12) have steadily gone to crap (accelerating the last 3 years).
Oklahoma's defense ranks:
2012: #65
2013: #20
2014: #52
2015: #39
2016: #82
2017: #67
2018: #108
The demise of Texas, coupled with the departure of Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, and Texas A&M, along with the addition of TCU and WVU (realignment), changed the Big 12 into the product we see today.
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CU Guru [1578]
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Re: As recently as 2009, the B12 had 3 top 10 defenses
Nov 24, 2018, 8:46 AM
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It also doesn't help Big 12 defenses that they have been playing against top NFL qb prospects since 2010. I wonder how many of the qbs from the Big 12 are on NFL rosters compared to other leagues. Guess I need to do some research.
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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No. I mean the offenses are really good and make the
Nov 24, 2018, 8:25 AM
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defenses look even worse, but we have metrics now like S&P+ that adjust for opponents to give a better defensive rating and the Big XII defenses still suck, even in that.
TCU 27th
Iowa St 32nd
Texas 56th
K State 61st
WVU 65th
Oklahoma 77th
OK State 78th
Texas Tech 86th
Baylor 94th
Kansas 103rd
Other teams in the playoff hunt:
Clemson 1st
Michigan 2nd
Notre Dame 3rd
Alabama 6th
Georgia 18th
Ohio State 38th
Look at this way, everyone is talking about how bad the Ohio State defense is this year and it would be right up there with the best defenses in the Big XII.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaadef
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Question about B12 defenses...
Nov 24, 2018, 8:48 AM
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When I watch their games, and the D is not getting to the QB, I think of CLEMSON pounding their RB's and QB into submission with constant pressure. IMO - the B12 defenses are lame, and seem to just go thru the motions instead of attacking the O. Nah - I would rate their defenses as WEAK, and their offenses aren't all that great either if they are pressured.
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All-In [40332]
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offense wins games
Nov 24, 2018, 8:48 AM
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Defense wins championships.
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Varsity [223]
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Re: offense wins games
Nov 24, 2018, 9:00 AM
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The expression I'm familiar with is: "Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships."
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110%er [5209]
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Big12 and "Defense" are mutually exclusive.***
Nov 24, 2018, 9:48 AM
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1st Rounder [643]
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Re: Question about B12 defenses...
Nov 24, 2018, 10:11 AM
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In 2015 just from my quick mental math (of questionable reliability) it looks like Oklahoma averaged over 47 against big 12 competition, then scored only 17 against Clemson in playoffs.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: Question about B12 defenses...
Nov 24, 2018, 10:11 AM
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IMHO, the Big-12 and Pac-12 have the same problem: small high schools.
From California to Texas to just about everywhere in the West, the problem there is pretty much the same: the vast bulk of the high schools they draw from are under 1,000 students. In California that's just because that's how they do things, in the bigger mountain and western plains and Southwestern states, it's just because the gulf in terrain is so immense that population density is low.
Obviously this changes as you hit the metro areas in, say, Texas, and you do start seeing some monster urban high schools again, but again, the vast bulk of your high schools are going to be very, very small.
Why does this matter? Because schools fill the "skill" positions - QB, RB, WR - first. They're the glory positions, the positions with the ball in their hands, and at best what you tend to see is those elite athletes sometimes playing both ways. But it means from California to across the Midwest, you see a massive number of skill-position players...and a truly massive shortage of defenders.
Which is why the Pac-12 and especially the Big-12 tend to have gobs of quality skill guys...and be absolutely dreadful on defense. The highest-ranked D in the Pac-12 is Utah, at #14 overall...and again, if you look closer, there's an absolutely huge Samoan outreach going on there; the bulk of the Utes' defenders are Pacific Islanders. Washington (#16 overall) and Cal (#18) have a good percentage of Samoan guys as well...after those three schools, there is not a single member of the Pac-12 or Big-12 with a Top-50 defense.
Fresno State (#15 overall) does have a pretty good D...but they're also loaded with partial qualifiers who the rest of the Pac-12 can't accept...Fresno fills the same role on the West Coast that Louisville once served and Memphis is now assuming, which is Partial Qualifier U.
I think it comes down to the talent pool, plain and simple.
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CU Guru [1577]
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Appreciate good threads, TU for you
Nov 24, 2018, 10:36 AM
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It's always nice to see a good football theory thread.
I don't know enough about the details of defensive schemes but could that be a part of it? Watching big12 games almost looks like a 7 on 7 game where tackling at or near the line of scrimage is non existent.
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