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Topic: Any one out there that can't see or admit that the program
Replies: 54   Last Post: Sep 15, 2014 2:19 PM by: Sludgemuffin
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Any one out there that can't see or admit that the program

[9]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:24 AM
 

is better now in every measurable way than when Dabo took over six years ago is either dumb, dishonest, a coot, or ......,perhaps all three. Ok.. With Tommy Bowden being the lone exception.

Can please stop the Spurrier worship now? We have a game this week.

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it is better, but some are worried dabo might have plateaued

[3]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:28 AM
 

are you ok with being 2nd in the atlantic & south carolina?

if yes, then you might not agree or you believe dabo can take the program even higher.

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Re: it is better, but some are worried dabo might have plateaued

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:30 AM
 

Yes he can get is past the hump. Go check who the mans recruited. He is Clemson Football right now...

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good, i hope so, but there are concerns that people have

[3]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:35 AM
 

pointed out; they have a right to those.

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Says who?***


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:16 PM
 



Whatever you do, always give 100%.....unless it's donating blood


Re: Says who?***

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:24 PM
 

Says the guy who thinks the only way we have a good season is to go undefeated. Or to never get blow out. And to beat South Carolina. Dabo goes 10-2 and fans like " we got blown out by fsu and lost to usuck. We need to win every game. We need to be competitive in every game.

Convinced some of these posters are are still in hs and there uncles run the boards. 100% like uve never gotten a td

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putin

[3]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:34 PM
 

did not.

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But when he draws a line in the sand

[2]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:54 PM
 

you better not cross it. Maybe Dabo should draw a line on the gridiron?

Whatever you do, always give 100%.....unless it's donating blood


Plateaued? A plateau is 10 and 11 wins per season?

[5]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:00 AM
 

If that is the plateau then I'll take it. As would about 120 other FBS teams. The only exception might be Alabama, FSU and Oregon. But even all those teams 6 or 7 years ago if you told them they would have 4 out of 5 years of 10 and 11 win seasons that they would have taken that and run with it. You do realize that going undefeated is REALLY hard. Even with Florida being considered a traditional power they have never, yes NEVER, had an undefeated season. Any one who thinks that a plateau of 10 or 11 wins is a bad thing is a complete fool.


are you going to be ok?

[2]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:09 AM
 

1. win the first game[can schedule a win here]
2. win the division
3. win the acc
4. win the state title
5. win the bowl game

those are dabo's stated goals.

now, match those up with each of his years as hc. also, i don't see win 10+ games there, but in no way am i taking away from those wins. they're nice, just not part of his goals for the team.

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You understand what goals are?


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:25 AM
 

Goals are something you strive for but are hard to obtain. If the team strives to obtain those yearly goals that Dabo lays out then the result is 10+ wins. If those 5 goals are reached then the Tigers are in the playoff. Thus your argument about the goals just validates my point. Also, the "plateau", as you call it, of 10 wins is what every football team including Oklahoma, Alabama, Oregon, FSU, and every other D1 and D1-AA (I refuse to use the FBS & FCS nomenclature) want to reach and maintain. Every one goes into the season hoping to go undefeated, and the key word there is hoping. I thought going into the season that with a bowl game this Clemson team would go 10-3 with an outside chance at 11-2. I still believe that is the case. If anyone thought something different with having to open in Athens and then having to go to Tallahassee to play a very good FSU team then they seriously should call themselves Gamecock Will.


i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:51 AM
 

those they usually will cost you a job. those goals are important to a program of clemson's stature, we're not wake forest.
 photo dabo_zps4aecea36.jpg

that's a lot of "no" & a lot of bad records in there as well.

5 straight double digit losses to rival
worst loss ever in a bowl game
worst home loss
9 losses all by double digits with fsu in doak looming[yes, clemson should have a chance to win]

these things need to go away. yes or no? i understand lauding 10+ wins is all that's left so i don't blame you and i'm not bashing 10 wins, but if those 10 wins don't include beating your rival or winning the conference then that's a plateau, no matter how you cut it.

if you're ok with all of the above, that's fine, but others aren't. i understand how the embarrassing losses on the national stage, lack of wins vs scar & for the division will continue to erode confidence in dabo.

how often should clemson play for the conference title? 2 out of every 4 years? that doesn't seem to be the direction we're going in and it might have just gotten more difficult with UofL in division now.

how often should clemson beat their instate rival? every other year?

some people are including those questions as part of their process, looking at clemson's commitment to the program in resources and coming to 'where the program should or can be' vs where it is. nobody's throwing out those 10 wins, they're pointing out they don't include the brass ring.

if you conclude clemson should or can do better, then 'has dabo plateaued' is a reasonable question.

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Re: i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:56 AM
 

Florida state is also the #1 team in the nation. Mayyybeee a reason we haven't won the ACC. You cant be ma at that! We fire dabo and go back to going 8-4 every year with a win over SC. Your a fool, yes im calling u names

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sure, but 55-14 at home? is that ok? no, it's not and it

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:01 PM
 

seems to be a sympton of something bigger.

why do we have to go back to 8-4 because dabo isn't the coach?

there are other coaches that know something about the game and clemson has shown a pretty sincere commitment to the program by providing dabo one of the highest paid staffs in the land.

and for the record, i haven't asked for dabo's head. i posed a question or offered a reasoned explanation for some of the angst i've seen on the board. that's all.

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Re: sure, but 55-14 at home? is that ok? no, it's not and it


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:12 PM
 

Didnt say we would go back to 8-4. We COULD though..

Didnt your elders tell you If it aint broke, don't fix it

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my elders taught me to look to the future, see the bumps


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:32 PM
 

or pitfalls that might lay ahead & determine how best to avoid those by bringing all the resources to bear.

i'll mark you down for being "ok" with 5 straight double digit losses to scar, 55-14 beat downs in DV, 2nd place finishes in division with no[? few if any] conference titles going forward coupled with the likeliness of no playoff berth as well and/or record setting losses in the national spotlight[yes, there have been some good wins as well].

you don't want to acknowledge or discuss the pitfalls, i'm left to take your avoidance as approval or acceptance.

i for one think clemson's ceiling is higher than 2nd place in division and state. i hope dabo is the guy when clemson reaches higher. dabo has a ton going for him right now, clemson needs to capitalize or the shine will fade from his star; that continued luster is not guaranteed either and dulls when clemson doesn't show up in the 2nd half in athens.

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Re: my elders taught me to look to the future, see the bumps


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:40 PM
 

I'm ok with 5 straight losses if it means we only lose a game or 2 every year. I'm ok with not winning the division when the team who does win it is the #1 team in the nation. (Won a national title) They were good year before that with EJ Manuel and company. I'm not mad, FSU was GOOD. And as the guy above stated, it's Morris's offense when these blowouts started. Dabo doesn't call the offense, he recruits very well though and we cant afford to lose that.

I'll mark u down in the "rambler" column

2019 student level member


Re: my elders taught me to look to the future, see the bumps


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:48 PM
 

I'm sure your elders taught u that. Did they say it just like that?

My elders taught me to shoot for the moon....


Sounds like some philosophy u made up, good try tho

Also, was auburn not horrible 2 years ago , then look what they did last year .. U never know where a season may take u.

But I see your already counting us out the playoff.

2019 student level member


I respect your lower expectations. No reason you can't

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:57 PM
 

respect higher expectations.

I think it's reasonable to expect not to be crushed 55-14 at home by anyone, ever.

I think it's reasonable to want to beat your rival more than every six years.

But I also think it's reasonable for you to be happy with the current situation. I can respect it, but I don't share it. I want less humiliation.

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Re: I respect your lower expectations. No reason you can't

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:02 PM
 

Sounds like a begger being a chooser ...

I don't like getting wooped. But the reason we did wasnt dabo

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I feel like you are really selling Clemson's potential short

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:05 PM
 

I don't see us as beggars. I think Clemson is special enough to expect competitive games against elite teams.

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Re: I feel like you are really selling Clemson's potential short


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:08 PM
 

Clemson is special enough because of Dabo......?

Blowouts = more chads fault

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Re: I feel like you are really selling Clemson's potential short


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:12 PM
 

I'm not selling us short, just sayin These are carolina best teams they've ever had. And spurrier won them those games. Fsu was #1 in the nation. Do i want to get blown out, no. But when we do get blown out i don't want to see stuff about replacing dabo, especially when it's more chads fault. Don't be so quick to blame, and when u do, for heavens sake plz blame the right guy..

2019 student level member


no, i posed what it seemed you might be OK with, but i've


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:14 PM
 

counted clemson out of nothing. do you think the #7 & #10 teams are going to make the 4 team playoff? and that's after a bowl win, not before those games when the playoff will be determined. what were clemson's rankings before?

my expectations are not to lose 5 in a row to scar and not to get beaten 55-14 at home to fsu when we're #3 in the land and the visitor is #5. losses happen, that loss was near inexcusable and inexplicable.

if you're comfortable with your expectations, so be it. clemson is capable of winning a national championship which means they need to be a playoff team. i expect them to play like it and 45-21[in the nation's eyes] with 15 total yards & 1 first down in 2H doesn't meet that expectation. is it reasonable to expect clemson might get thumped once in a while? sure, it happens, but every loss of the last 9 has been by double digits.

if morris is "an" or "the" issue, that's fine, it falls on dabo to make sure his employee performs better. that's his role.

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CSO is exactly right


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:22 PM
 

Are we better off than we were under Tommy Bowden? Yes, that's clear. Have we arrived, as a program, where we want to be? Absolutely not. If we had we wouldn't see the blowout losses... even to a great program like FSU. And if we were, we would have managed at least a couple of wins over a good, but not great, coot program. In several of those games Dabo and staff have been OUTCOACHED. Period. They still have a lot of work to do. This season and the next two will tell us definitively whether Dabo can get us over that hump or not. I hope he can, because I like Dabo. I love to see a man with his heart and character be successful at the highest level.

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Re: i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:32 PM
 

There were none of these blowout losses until Morris became OC. For all the good his offense does, when it is not producing first downs it puts a terrible strain on the defense, especially late in the game.

I can post the stats if anyone cares, but take out the two FCS games Venables had last year and the one FCS game Steele had in 2011 and Steele got fired for defensive stats that are almost identical to Venables stats from last year.

It seems like the defense was so much better last year but statistically it was hardly any better than Steele's last year.......383 YPG / 394 YPG. Take out the OB debacle and Steele's numbers look even better. Steele's 2010 defense that was pre-Morris.......#18 in the country and 324 YPG. http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-yards-per-game?date=2014-01-06

The Morris offense seems to be when things changed regarding the blowout losses. His offense has ended the head scratching losses to inferior talent but when the talent is equal and the opposing defense makes the Morris offense struggle, things seem to go bad in a big way because the defense is just out there too much.


Re: i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:12 PM
 

"There were none of these blowout losses until Morris became OC."

That might be the dumbest thing said on this board for a while:

2010 - SC - 29-7
2009 - SC - 34-17
2008 - Bama - 34-10
2008 - FSU 41-27
2007 - VT - 41-23
2006 - VT - 24-7
2004 - TAMU - 27-6
2004 - FSU - 41-22
2004 - UVA - 30-10
2003 - UGA - 30-0
2003 - Maryland - 21-7
2003 - Wake - 45-17
2002 - FSU 48-31
2002 - NCSt - 38-6
2002 - Maryland - 30-12
2002 - TTech - 55-15
2001 - UNC - 38-3
2001 - FSU - 41-27
2000 - FSU - 54-7
2000 - VT - 41-20

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Re: i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:14 PM
 

2002 fsu game, we lost by 17, and u call that a blow out???

Wow

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Re: i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:16 PM
 

I'm sure he tries to get Morris to do his best ... Week in week out . Does it happen? Ehh

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Re: i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:19 PM
 

Yeah, ignore the other 20.

Morris ain't the problem with the Defense. There isn't a problem with the Defense.

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Re: i understand goals, i understand if you don't make most of


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 2:19 PM
 

> "There were none of these blowout losses until Morris
> became OC."
>
> That might be the dumbest thing said on this board
> for a while:
>
> 2010 - SC - 29-7
> 2009 - SC - 34-17
> 2008 - Bama - 34-10
> 2008 - FSU 41-27
> 2007 - VT - 41-23
> 2006 - VT - 24-7
> 2004 - TAMU - 27-6
> 2004 - FSU - 41-22
> 2004 - UVA - 30-10
> 2003 - UGA - 30-0
> 2003 - Maryland - 21-7
> 2003 - Wake - 45-17
> 2002 - FSU 48-31
> 2002 - NCSt - 38-6
> 2002 - Maryland - 30-12
> 2002 - TTech - 55-15
> 2001 - UNC - 38-3
> 2001 - FSU - 41-27
> 2000 - FSU - 54-7
> 2000 - VT - 41-20

Weird that you've included 14 and 17 point losses in this list of "blowouts".

My comment "none" was obviously too strong when talking about entire history. The point is that there have been several games recently where the team has just looked completely outmatched. Games like FSU last year, the OB in 2011 and the 2nd half of UGA two weeks ago. Excluding the Bama loss in '08 you have to go back 10 years to find similar results to the recent blowout games.


Yeah, yeah, yeah...but what has he done lately? LOL***


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:32 AM
 




When we can compete with any team in the nation,

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:34 AM
 

we will have arrived.


Well, I'd say we've arrived then***

[2]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:36 AM
 



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I wouldn't call 45-21 competitive.***

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:50 AM
 




Re: I wouldn't call 45-21 competitive.***

[2]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:59 AM
 

Your response, in a nut shell, is exactly what has many people on here very anxious, disappointed. We didn't just lose to Georgia, we got embarrassed. I believe most, not all, tiger fans could have taken something positive from a close game. That's what's going on here IMO.


Re: I wouldn't call 45-21 competitive.***

[7]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 9:59 AM
 

A final score is not always indicative of how a team competes, with the exception of Florida State last year, which was inflated by some terribly times turnovers. You play that same (UGA) game in Death Valley, and our offense probably makes a few more plays, and the defense makes a few extra stops. That score got out of hand in the last 10 minutes of the game with a few big plays. For 50 minutes we competed fairly well with one of the best teams. Now I am certainly not touting any moral victories because in the end we still lost which is all tht matters. I'm simply saying the score does not always tell the story on how competitive you are.


+1.***


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:00 AM
 



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You mean the team we beat last year in DV and

[4]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:57 AM
 

the team we stood toe-to-toe with for 3 quarters in Athens?

If you look at our wins over the last couple years, including LSU, Georgia, tOSU, etc...we can compete with anybody. That doesn't mean we won't lose some games though. Unfortunately in the opener I thought we looked like the better team in the first half but we were tied. Then we got manhandled in the 4th quarter.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Well, I'd say we've arrived then***

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:04 AM
 

We can compete with any team in the nation . And those things pointed out are hardly warranted or legit. Dabo got CJ spiller to come here, who was are team. This was the 1st big name athlete and it created a snowball effect with recruiting . We recruit the best players in the country these days.

2019 student level member


Re: There are very few reams that can compete with...

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:04 AM
 

Anyone in the nation. We will get there. And it will be sooner than later. The key is to improve every game and every year.


Re: There are very few reams that can compete with...


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:08 AM
 

Plz. The less u say the better a lot of i sound . We don't know your a fool if u don't open your mouth..

If my memory serves me correct, we competed with the auburn national champs when they had cam newton, did we not?

We are there...

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You just can't fix stupid...and you've got a bad case of it.***


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:10 AM
 



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


We are more prone to inexplicable humiliation.


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:17 AM
 

Dabo has set some awesome records... but also some horrific ones.

Needless to say, I still support him as our coach, but I think it's reasonable to be frustrated with all the blowouts. 5 double digit losses in a row to the coots and getting curb stomped at home last year are not two things I can just shrug off like it didn't happen. Also we collapsed in the 4th quarter against UGA on defense and in the 3rd on offense.

Hopefully that is all behind us, but nobody knows.

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Agree. The problem is the horrific losses. Worst loss ever,

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:28 AM
 

worst loss at home, etc. If we were truly a nationally competitive, feared opponent, these kinds of losses would not happen.

Here is the reality. Every Clemson fan, and that includes me, was and is worried every year about UGA, FSU, and the chickens. Right now each of us is figuratively praying, "Dear Lord, please don't let FSU blow us out again. Let us win this year" Why? Because we do not have the quiet confidence that we will defeat them. And that really gets to me. I don't like "hoping" we win. I want to know that we will win or know the other team hopes they never, ever have to have another win like they had over us.


Re: We are more prone to inexplicable humiliation.


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:00 AM
 

Good Point - the annihilation losses have increased over while Tom Bowden was coach.

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You're joking, right?

[3]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:13 AM
 

We were humiliated many times under Bowden. You folks need to stop getting so ### hung up on an FSU team who is boatloads more talented than us and losing 5 to the coots at their peak in 125 years and giving them a couple at that. No, I'm not saying it's okay to lose to the coots or one of the most talented teams in the country, but getting hung up on some large point differentials is just plain nonsense. The big picture is VERY IMPRESSIVE. 8th in the country in wins the last 3 years and two top ten finishes. How many times in the lives of anyone on this site has that happened? Some of you can't see the forest through the trees. This is as good as it's ever been at Clemson save for the national title. Please stop sounding like a bunch of sense-of-entitlement children.


Re: You're joking, right?

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:43 AM
 

No he's serious..

"Plateaued" lol

#deadsolidwrong

2019 student level member


Haven't lost to Duke, though

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:33 AM
 

People forget some of the awful, head-scratchers that we lost under Bowden. Come on, Duke?


Assuming you are being sarcastic, I agree that we are better

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 12:36 PM
 

off overall than we have been since the early 90's. I just think it's too soon to think we have re-arrived at where clemson was in the 80's. A hard-fought loss is one thing. But we absolutely fall apart too often.

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Re: We are more prone to inexplicable humiliation.


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:07 PM
 

I agree CSO


Re: We are more prone to inexplicable humiliation.


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:17 PM
 

I am behind Dabo.. but to say we are "there" when you let FSU come into our house and beat us by 6 touchdowns and loose to the coots by double digits 5 years in a row, well let's just say there are some things I'm concerned about. Also starting to have some concerns about Morris


Re: Any one out there that can't see or admit that the program

[1]
Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:18 AM
 

It's definitely better.

For those who think/expect everything to be perfect every second ... consider John Wooden. John took over at UCLA in 1948 or so and immediately the play at UCLA improved. His teams "plateaued" during the 1950s when the NCAA champions at San Francisco and California took the stage. Beginning in 1962 UCLA got the stage and kept it for about 20 years.

Nope - I'm not saying to wait 10 years to rise off the "plateau". I'm saying things are better ... I like the Clemson football scene now more than 7/8 years ago.

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Re: Any one out there that can't see or admit that the program


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:14 AM
 

Tommy knows better than anybody what the administration has given dabo and clemson. The money and facilities are lights out better than what he had.


Previous coaches are irrelevant. It is what we do now.***


Posted: Sep 15, 2014 11:53 AM
 




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