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Editor [∞]
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FB Update: Tommy Bowden: "Clemson is here to stay"
May 12, 2017, 11:51 AM
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CU Medallion [55377]
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Re: FB Update: Tommy Bowden: "Clemson is here to stay"
May 12, 2017, 12:06 PM
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We're glad that you believed that Dabo was your choice to take Clemson to the end of the season after you departure. But Tommy we believe that Dabo has gotten to where he is right now bc Dabo believed in his self, and he put in the all the hard work day and night to prove that he was as good a choice for Clemson as anyone, and he is right. We Tiger fans can't name a coach we would rather have other than Dabo Swinney!!!
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Orange Blooded [2438]
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Re: FB Update: Tommy Bowden: "Clemson is here to stay"
May 12, 2017, 12:15 PM
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Agree with T Bowden the Tigers are here to stay. We've been there for 2-3 yrs already. Dabo is an elite coach; guess it took the Natty Championship to convince non-Tigers. Also seems Bowden's the one with the chip on his shoulder.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: FB Update: Tommy Bowden: "Clemson is here to stay"
May 12, 2017, 12:25 PM
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I agree with Bowden. I give him credit for getting some facilities upgrades when the Barker regime could not see past the academic rankings instead of athletic rankings. Tommy is spot on in his comments.
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Legend [18663]
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Tommy deserves to be in the Ring of Honor
May 12, 2017, 12:25 PM
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at WakeForest, Maryland and Boston College !
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Tommy deserves to be in the Ring of Honor
May 12, 2017, 12:31 PM
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I'm not saying that Bowden was a great coach on the field. Losses to inferior opponents like Wake Forest killed Bowden. His parity excuses were laughable. I did defend him when Barker allowed the AARC to hurt the football program. Give Bowden credit for the beginning of the new facilities.
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All-TigerNet [12538]
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Well said coach Bowden. And let's give a little credit
May 12, 2017, 12:27 PM
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to Bowden. He had us in much better shape than Tommy West or Hatfield.
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CU Medallion [64570]
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In some respects yes. In others, not so much.***
May 12, 2017, 12:46 PM
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All-In [28802]
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LOL. In what respects did he not?***
May 12, 2017, 2:09 PM
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Trainer [25]
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Re: LOL. In what respects did he not?***
May 12, 2017, 5:48 PM
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Hatfield's record at Clemson: 32-13-1 = 71% winning percentage
Bowden's record at Clemson: 72-45-0 = 61% winning percentage
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Head Coach [785]
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Re: LOL. In what respects did he not?***
May 12, 2017, 7:12 PM
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I believe Hatfield only had a better winning percentage than Bowden, cause he inherited a very good team already built by Danny Ford. Just saying!
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Bowden left us better off(accidental long in-depth response)
May 13, 2017, 12:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: LOL. In what respects did he not?*** ] |
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I initially was only planning on writing a couple sentences and it turned into quite a diatribe. Can you guys tell I miss football season? I can't belief I wrote something so long and in depth just to respond to who was better between Ken Hatfield and Tommy Bowden.
If you were to compare the overall success during the tenures of Hatfield versus Bowden, then Hatfield would have the edge because of his superior .707 winning percentage compared to Bowden's .615 winning percentage, his ACC title in 1991, and his 10 win season in 1990.
However, I would argue that the more important factor is the overall state of the program at the conclusion of each of their tenures. Based on this criterion, I would put Bowden decidedly ahead of Hatfield.
Hatfield's winning percentage was heavily skewed by the success he had in his first two seasons. He won 19 games in his first two years, but only won 13 games in his final two seasons before resigning in 1993. Although his .591 winning percentage in his final two years is still very similar to Bowden's overall .615 winning percentage, the overall talent level of the roster at the end of Hatfield's final year in 1993 was severely diminished from the overall skill level on the team at the beginning of 1990. By the time Bowden was hired to replace Tommy West at the end of the 1998 season, we were coming off of our worst season since 1975 with a record of 3-8.
Additionally, while the majority of the credit should certainly be given to Terry Don Phillips for making Dabo the interim head coach after Bowden's resignation instead of DC Vic Koenning (who had prior experience as a HC) and then promoting him instead of going after a more established name (Ralph Friedgen, Lane Kiffin, Jim Grobe, etc.), it was Bowden's recommendation of Dabo's promotion to interim head coach along with his initial decision to hire him as WR coach back in 2003 that was the first cause that set us on our current course.
As random as it may seem, that simple fact alone gives Bowden a unique and more priveleged status in the history of Clemson football. Also, it was Bowden promoting Dabo to recruiting coordinator that first led to the dramatic improvement in the overall talent level of the roster. Only someone with the unfettered and limitless optimism of Dabo would have gone after what at the time by all accounts appeared to be a complete long shot by recruiting a top rated 5 star RB out of Lake Butler, Florida back in 2006. It was this initial signing of CJ Spiller that opened up our recruiting pipeline in Florida to an elite level that has led to so many talented and irreplaceable players including Sammy Watkins, Mackensie Alexander, Jordan Leggett, Deon Cain, and literally dozens of others.
I highly doubt that any more than a few of you will find this reply and then take the time to read through it all the way to this point, but I must admit that it makes me feel good to talk Clemson football. Even after five months, I'm still riding high off the excitement of our incredible wins over Urban Meyer and Nick Saban on the way to the National Championship. This baseball season has been great so far (save the weekend sweep in Chapel Hill a couple weeks ago), but as much as I love our Tigers and want to support them, it's just not the same as football for me.
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Legend [16774]
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Re: Bowden left us better off(accidental long in-depth response)
May 13, 2017, 7:09 AM
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Good job. Can't disagree with any of your points. Tommy's downfall was to always keep an 'excuse' in his hip pocket. Dabo doesn't believe in excuses.
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All-Conference [402]
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Hatfield was in a no-win situation.
May 13, 2017, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to Bowden left us better off(accidental long in-depth response) ] |
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Plenty of people hated Hatfield because of how Danny Ford was fired, which he had nothing to do with. He also was expecting to bring his staff from Arkansas, but Frank Broyles hired OC Jack Crowe to replace Hatfield and much of the staff stayed with Crowe in Arkansas. Hatfield was the only big name hire from outside the program in Clemson history. (Clemson either hires up-and-coming coaches or internally. The big three, Howard, Ford, and Swinney, were all internal hires and already well-acquainted with Clemson's culture.) The 1990 team was a serious contender for a National Championship, so expectations were high. Finally, Clemson was also dealing with a loss of scholarships due to an NCAA investigation, which would impact his later teams.
Hatfield came in with high expectations and no support.
Hatfield started his tenure by losing to UVA, something that no Clemson football team had ever done. Yes, this was the best UVA team ever, the defending ACC Champion, and eventually reached #1, but this start didn't endear him to the fans. The only other loss was to National Champion Georgia Tech.
Clemson won the ACC in 1991. The 1992 team started hot, but finished cold, as injuries and lack of depth took its toll. The 1993 team finished a respectable 8-3. Still, this team set the pattern of beating the bad teams but being uncompetitive against the good ones and going to mediocre bowl games that would hold for the next 15 years.
Under Tommy West Clemson football hit rock bottom. West's teams were tough and fought hard, but he was in well over his head and couldn't coach a game to save his life.
Tommy Bowden brought back Clemson football. He solved a lot of off-the-field problems that had plagued Clemson since the Charlie Pell era. Unfortunately, once Rich Rod left and West's players graduated, the program lacked the coaching quality and toughness needed to take it to the next level. Bowden's teams could beat anybody and they could lose to anybody. After Rich Rod left, Bowden seemed to have trouble finding good people and holding the people he found accountable. But he found Dabo, and the rest is history.
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Legend [15870]
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Re: LOL. In what respects did he not?***
May 13, 2017, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: LOL. In what respects did he not?*** ] |
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Then why was Hatfield basically run out of town?? He was fairly successful I spite of some Clemson fans who made it clear he was never welcome at Clemson. It heard that his recruiting was sabotaged too!. Long term I don't believe KH would has stayed at Clemson, but he was IMO the right coach at that time.
As much as I loved DF and his accomplishments at Clemson, he had his faults as well. Sometimes he could be his own worst enemy.
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Trainer [25]
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Re: LOL. In what respects did he not?***
May 17, 2017, 6:50 PM
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Hatfield's two "crimes":
1)He ran a boring but effective ball-control, field-position offense.
2)He wasn't Danny Ford.
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All-Conference [409]
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Re: Well said coach Bowden. And let's give a little credit
May 12, 2017, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to Well said coach Bowden. And let's give a little credit ] |
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You are absolutely correct. I was there on Bowden's squad at the turning point of the program, right at the turn of the millennium. Now that "Best Is The Standard", it is easy to forget where we came from. Bowden was not perfect (and neither were we), but together we ascended from "average" to "good". It took Dabo, an outstanding staff, and some of the most talented athletes to ever wear the Paw to reach true greatness. Looking back, I am proud of all of our history, even the tough times, because it shows a slow and steady progression to where we are today.
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CU Medallion [64570]
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Still not sure why people keeps asking this guy his opinion
May 12, 2017, 12:40 PM
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Why would anyone care what he says or thinks. I know I don't.
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All-TigerNet [13237]
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He's an analyst, just like mack Brown or Lou Holtz
May 12, 2017, 1:17 PM
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and it was posted b/c it's Clemson news.
It wasn't posted b/c it's something our former coach said about us. You see stuff posted here from other anaylst right?
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CU Medallion [64570]
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Frankly...
May 12, 2017, 2:07 PM
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he's not much of an analyst.
I respect the opinions of Brown and Holtz more than Bowden.
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All-TigerNet [13237]
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That wasn't your question though.
May 12, 2017, 2:46 PM
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But I do agree with you.
I'll take another step and say Urban Meyer and Chris Spielman's coverage of our Auburn game, in 2011, is maybe the I've ever heard.
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Hall of Famer [22656]
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Re: Frankly...
May 12, 2017, 7:28 PM
[ in reply to Frankly... ] |
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I haven't had much respect for anything Holtz has said since he said he would have the coots in his preseason top ten every year as long as Spurrier was there.
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Orange Blooded [2702]
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That's harsh, bro***
May 12, 2017, 11:06 PM
[ in reply to Frankly... ] |
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All-In [28802]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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110%er [6219]
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Re: Yet we offer our opinions like anyone cares?
May 13, 2017, 1:33 AM
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Says who? You? Give me a break. Tommy Bowden is completely irrelevant. If his last name wasn't "Bowden" he may never have gotten the Clemson job and we sure as h*ll would never have heard from him again even if he had.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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How many interviews do you get asked for? THAT is irrelevant
May 13, 2017, 11:02 AM
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Feel free to hate on the guy all you want, but if people are asking him his opinion, and that makes you angry, it's not because he's irrelevant. It's because you wish he was irrelevant. And that's odd.
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110%er [6219]
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Re: How many interviews do you get asked for? THAT is irrelevant
May 13, 2017, 11:15 AM
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Do you think for even a second anyone would notice if Tommy stopped giving his opinion? Never coached again? The answer to that is an unequivocal NO, and that is the textbook definition of irrelevant.
I'm not angry at all. Tommy can opine on anything he likes. What I find strange are the legions of Tommy apologists who feel the need to give the guy credit every chance they get.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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No, it clearly bothers you. I'm glad he was fired but I let
May 13, 2017, 11:18 AM
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it go. It's odd to care if a former coach is being interviewed or not. If they stopped interviewing him, I wouldn't care either.
As a former Clemson coach for nearly a decade, he clearly has a valuable perspective of the Clemson program, whether or not he ended up needing to be replaced. Only some ulterior, emotional motive would cause a person to dispute that.
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110%er [6219]
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Re: No, it clearly bothers you. I'm glad he was fired but I let
May 13, 2017, 11:49 AM
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Hahahaha I can assure you, I've got enough more important things to bother me in this life.
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Legend [15870]
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Re: No, it clearly bothers you. I'm glad he was fired but I let
May 13, 2017, 11:53 AM
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Are you still in high school yet? Very immature post!
Without the TB era there would have most likely never been the Dabo era!!!
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Orange Blooded [2438]
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Re: No, it clearly bothers you. I'm glad he was fired but I let
May 13, 2017, 12:43 PM
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Disagree on the immature post. This media exists for fans to express opinions. Like it or not, Bowden is a lightning rod. He also was a good coach, but had flaws (who of us don't ). I agree the Bowden era led to the rise of Swinney--and thank goodness. As I said, it's not about TB, but Dabo. Nuff said. Go Tigers!
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All-TigerNet [10200]
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"clemson was always catching up especially
May 12, 2017, 12:42 PM
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When I was there" ok TB...how about coaching better and motivate your players. Smh
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: "clemson was always catching up especially
May 12, 2017, 11:03 PM
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I took that the exact same way. TB was & still is full of excuses.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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I don't have any ill-will toward Tommy and appreciate him supporting Dabo as his replacement
May 12, 2017, 12:56 PM
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But this sounds a little of excuses. Dabo worked with the same initial administration and AD as Bowden and used his people and other skills to sell them on facility improvements and assistant coaches salaries. Even when we were not so successful you never heard Dabo making excuses - just making plans.
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All-In [40925]
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Half the teams lose every Saturday***
May 12, 2017, 1:53 PM
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CU Guru [1092]
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Any coach that
May 12, 2017, 1:21 PM
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can go 7-2 against the "dirt peckers" and recommended "Dabo" as the next head coach to replace him has earned respect.
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Orange Blooded [2438]
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Re: Any coach that
May 12, 2017, 2:02 PM
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In those days, beating the ##### was mostly assured. TB didn't motivate players with a will to win with positive influence to believe in themselves and the team. Seemed more the brow beating type. The real point is not TB, but Dabo. They are not in the same class as coaches. If Bowden recommended Dabo as interim, then he gets my thanks for getting that right.
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All-TigerNet [10200]
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If he was 8-1, I would have given you a thumbs up but
May 12, 2017, 2:08 PM
[ in reply to Any coach that ] |
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will NEVER forget him taking Reggie M. out of the game!
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: If he was 8-1, I would have given you a thumbs up but
May 12, 2017, 2:45 PM
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You got that right..... Or the gift to his Dad in the sleeting rain with a no good F.Goal Try from too many yards out when we were running the ball down their throat ..... Oh well ... We got Dabo and a Natty and last time I looked most of the Bowdens are fishin !
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All-In [27180]
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Re: Well,
May 12, 2017, 2:17 PM
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bye.
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Orange Blooded [4440]
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Tommy always had excuses. ALSO I'll never forget not continuing to hand the ball to RM.***
May 12, 2017, 3:41 PM
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CU Guru [1947]
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Tommy Bowden can kiss my a$$***
May 12, 2017, 4:34 PM
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CU Guru [1476]
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Thank You Captain Obvious***
May 12, 2017, 9:01 PM
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Replies: 43
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