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CU Medallion [58314]
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Clemson basketball - don't fall for the BS that we
Mar 10, 2016, 10:25 AM
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can never be good in basketball.
We're a football school, basketball just doesn't matter.
SC is a talent poor state for high school basketball.
We've never been very good, so therefore, we never can be.
Good basketball players just won't come to Clemson.
Etc., etc..
These are all lame excuses, and are not legitimate reasons for accepting perpetual mediocrity, or worse, the gut-wrenching frustration of consistent failure.
And what's even worse perhaps, is the idea that years like this one were somehow a success, because even though we crashed and burned into a steaming pile of dung at the end of the season and finished mid-pack or below once again, it was a good year because we were picked to finish last. That is the most pathetic, loser-mentality rationalizing I've ever heard.
The fact is that our basketball program sucks out loud and in color, the trajectory of the program is flatter than a pancake, and that is unacceptable as Clemson can and should expect to do better.
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110%er [7168]
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You're absolutely right
Mar 10, 2016, 10:29 AM
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Clemson COULD be really good at basketball. All Clemson needs to do is build some first class facilities and pay a coach at least double what Brownell makes.
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Varsity [219]
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Re: Clemson basketball - don't fall for the BS that we
Mar 10, 2016, 10:37 AM
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I hate to admit it but you have a point! All the bleed orange and hoopla" no pun intended" honestly does not change
our programs very disappointing record. One excellent player isn't enough in the ACC... I frankly don't have an answer!
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CU Guru [1123]
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Point for "sucks out loud and in color"***
Mar 10, 2016, 10:41 AM
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Heisman Winner [111193]
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Re: Clemson basketball - don't fall for the BS that we
Mar 10, 2016, 10:46 AM
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my favorite is the "we are not a city School, therefore can never be successful in BBall argument"
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CU Medallion [58314]
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Yep. I understand that there are some kids who won't give us
Mar 10, 2016, 11:56 AM
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as much as a sniff because of that, but it is a non-factor for most. The fact is, Clemson has an extremely diverse student population, and already attracts athletes from all over the place from different backgrounds.
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MVP [522]
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And when we are ranked in the top 25...
Mar 10, 2016, 11:43 AM
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and a high seed in the NCAA tourny next year get back to me and we'll see what you think then.
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CU Medallion [58314]
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If that happens, that only buys him another year.
Mar 10, 2016, 12:01 PM
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Cracking the top 25 is not the end goal, mind you, and only doing it once every 5 years is not success by any stretch; in fact it is an outright failure. Now, if he got us in the dance next year, and the year after, and advanced beyond the first round, then we're talking, but one year of merely making the dance means very little at this stage. That's what I'm talking about - expectations are pathetically low.
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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Don't think anyone is arguing with you about that.
Mar 10, 2016, 12:06 PM
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Brownell's career hinges on next season, make the tourney and he gets another year. Doesn't make the tourney and he's out, it's finally the ultimatum year.
Expectations should be low, but the University has finally shown the initiative with this LittleJohn renovation, so they are raising.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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why should next year be the year?
Mar 10, 2016, 12:16 PM
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why not the year after next?
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Heisman Winner [133464]
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Re: Don't think anyone is arguing with you about that.
Mar 10, 2016, 1:27 PM
[ in reply to Don't think anyone is arguing with you about that. ] |
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agree....If JB comes back next year and with the new players, he should make the NCAA. If not then I think it is time to look in another direction.
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MVP [522]
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Legend [15730]
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Godamiety, we do not "suck". We are a middle-of-the-pack
Mar 10, 2016, 12:03 PM
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ACC team and we have been for 20 years if you exclude the Shyatt years.
We went 10-8 in a conference that has the highest concentration of elite programs in the country. That does not "suck".
Yesterday's game most certainly sucked. There's no excuse for it. I just wish people would stop acting like we're Boston College. We are mediocre in a great conference. This year we played in Greenville. The school has spent $65 million renovating an arena they just renovated about a decade ago. The school IS investing in basketball and the team is doing "okay". Of course we can do better and of course we want to do better. Every program does.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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what is the measure for a CBB program to determine if they
Mar 10, 2016, 12:08 PM
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"suck" or not?
NCAAT? Postseason? ACCT?
6 Years under Brad Brownell:
Postseason - 2 times (one NIT, one NCAAT)
NCAAT - 1 time (first year)
ACCT - 2 wins in 6 years
by all definitions... yes... we do
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Legend [15730]
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Maybe "record"?***
Mar 10, 2016, 12:15 PM
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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ok.. what has our "record" done for us the past
Mar 10, 2016, 12:17 PM
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6 seasons?
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Legend [15730]
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Not a thing. Not the point.
Mar 10, 2016, 2:08 PM
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The original poster didn't say "We've been absent from the NCAA tournament for the last five seasons." If he had, I would have said "Good point."
This ridiculous mindset where you're either awesome or you suck is so boring anymore, especially coming from fans who aren't playing the game.
We're an inconsistent, overall mediocre program. We'd like to be better.
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CU Medallion [58314]
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Middle of the pack every year absolutely sucks!
Mar 10, 2016, 12:31 PM
[ in reply to Godamiety, we do not "suck". We are a middle-of-the-pack ] |
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You are making my point - if we are gonna view mid-pack as success, then we need to curl up into the fetal position, bulldoze littlejohn and scrap the basketball program. Mid-pack should only be acceptable as an undesirable, very temporary state that inevitably happens every now and then as part of a natural cycle. Instead, we are actually trying to spin 5 straight years of mediocrity into success! That is a joke. I've got an idea - lets tell ourselves that anything but finishing last is good, that as long as we aren't dead last, that means there is somebody worse off than us. That way we could almost always be successful!
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CU Medallion [58314]
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CU Guru [1891]
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Would anybody on this Bored be happy if the football
Mar 10, 2016, 1:25 PM
[ in reply to Godamiety, we do not "suck". We are a middle-of-the-pack ] |
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team finished 5-3 in ACC play and closed out the season losing to an inferior team by blowing a 21 point 4th quarter lead? I don't think so. TB was almost run out of town for losing 45-17 to Wake Forest with a middle of the pack football team.
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110%er [5376]
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Michigan State, Ohio State & Oklahoma = SUCCESS
Mar 10, 2016, 12:10 PM
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in both sports & I'm sure there are plenty others that can say the same.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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to be fair... they don't allow their best player to
Mar 10, 2016, 12:13 PM
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elevate their game
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All-In [43979]
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I agree 100%. Enough with the loser mentality of some of our fans.
Mar 10, 2016, 1:28 PM
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We can be great at basketball. Find it, support it, and work toward being a football school AND a basketball school.
We are still overcoming Frank Howard's short-sightedness when it came to basketball. Pathetic.
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All-In [43979]
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That should say FUND it, not find it.***
Mar 10, 2016, 1:33 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79846]
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I agree and you should write the ad and let him know as well***
Mar 10, 2016, 1:32 PM
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Oculus Spirit [82946]
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But don't you think that since so few of our alumni and
Mar 10, 2016, 1:50 PM
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fan base care about basketball, it makes it much tougher than at football schools that have many more who actually care about basketball.
Examples of football schools that although basketball is secondary, the support is much higher than here:
Florida
LSU
Coot U
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
WVU
BTW, these are all much bigger schools.
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All-In [43979]
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I disagree with your statement that "so few" care.
Mar 10, 2016, 1:57 PM
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We have no problem getting at least 7,000 fans to watch the team play when they are good, and that number approaches 9,000-10,000 during conference games. There are plenty of our fans who care about basketball.
From an economic standpoint, spending money on basketball will make more money for the athletic department. That means that we can use some of that for football and some for basketball. Likewise, some of the additional money made by the football program can be used for football and some for basketball. These are the only two money making sports. They should be the priority.
Devoting money to the money losing sports like baseball, soccer, track, crew, golf, etc should only come once football and basketball have what they need. This is simple economics.
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Oculus Spirit [82946]
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Maybe, I guess I'm just jaded by so many posters on
Mar 10, 2016, 2:20 PM
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here who post they don't care and people I know who could care less about hoops.
Also, attendance is abysmal for many ACC games against unranked opponents not named UNC or Duke, and all OOC games that aren't against South Carolina.
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CU Medallion [58314]
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Oculus Spirit [82946]
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Auburn, Alabama, Ole Miss, FSU, and UT come to mind when I
Mar 10, 2016, 2:22 PM
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try to think of schools similar to ours in how they support the basketball program.
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CU Medallion [58314]
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Auburn hired Bruce pearl. Alabama hired Avery
Mar 10, 2016, 3:04 PM
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Johnson. UT hired Rick Barnes. FSU hired Leonard Hamilton. Those are all very high-profile coaches. Ole Miss has advanced past the first round of the NCAA tourney twice in the last 4 years. I know those are bigger, wealthier schools, but whether it has brought success or not, they have gone out and gotten some big-name coaches. They appear to be serious about basketball.
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Legend [16112]
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I don't think we have a shot at a big name coach...Brad was
Mar 10, 2016, 3:08 PM
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not by any means our first option
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All-In [43979]
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Coaches want two main things:
Mar 10, 2016, 3:13 PM
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-Support from the administration
-A chance to compete and be successful
Historically, Clemson has done little to none of the first one, which naturally leads to a small chance of the second one. Thus, the perception remains that Clemson is a football school not serious about basketball.
The Littlejohn renovations help significantly in reversing that perception. Earmarking more for a head coach's salary will help reverse it even more.
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Oculus Spirit [82946]
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Pretty sure all but Hamilton had been fired from their
Mar 10, 2016, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to Auburn hired Bruce pearl. Alabama hired Avery ] |
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previous positions though. I'd hope a school serious about basketball would aim higher.
Of the four, I think Hamilton was a great hire. Hamilton did great in Miami but don't remember why he left.
Barnes seems to be a shell of his former self now. I guess he's just getting old like you and I.
Pearl was a big time cheater.
Johnson got fired by the NJ Nets.
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CU Medallion [58314]
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Yes, they had all been fired, but still had been
Mar 10, 2016, 4:39 PM
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successful fairly recently and had name recognition, which was my point.
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the main reason we have struggled in basketball is because our competition usually has better basketball talent than we do. I think better basketball players would come to Clemson if they thought the could win big here. That requires a coach that good high school players believe can get them past mid-pack in the conference. That requires either a coach who, either has a history of success at a high level and name recognition, or through the force of his personality can sell that dream
And yes, we are getting old! 
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Hall of Famer [24507]
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