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All-In [42140]
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The "defund police" crowd isn't really thinking this through
Jun 25, 2020, 11:30 PM
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I mean, I get where they're coming from, but it's a bit of a silly premise. That cutting funding to police will suddenly magically fix the problems within law enforcement.
First, what are their complaints? That police are over-bearing, militarized, infiltrated with systemic racism, killing too many people, etc.?
Okay. So let's say you cut funding to try to stop these things.
Police departments have methods of generating revenue, morseo on a local level with tickets and property/auction confiscations through drug enforcement. These two methods are some of the very criticisms the "defund police" crowd cites. They claim these actions unfairly target minorities.
Well, if you take away funding, and the police have to make up for those losses, I think we know how that's happening. More emphasis will be placed on tickets, traffic stops, drug possession enforcement, etc. And if you think those things target minorities, well, there you go. It will lead to more encounters with police vs. minorities, and I assume, a higher risk for fatalities.
I know some folks may claim police don't get that money or there aren't quotas, but let's be real. That myth was already shattered with the Walter Scott shooting, and even if the money doesn't go directly to police, local government finds a way.
Rather than looking at slashing funding as a quick fix, let's look at solutions that involve better training, purging forces of bad officers, community outreach, demilitarization, and changes in philosophy.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: The "defund police" crowd isn't really thinking this through
Jun 25, 2020, 11:34 PM
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There’s more to it than defunding. There’s also a lot of legislation that’s being called for Reform of police depts. reform goes right along with defunding
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All-In [42140]
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And I definitely agree there...
Jun 25, 2020, 11:36 PM
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Clearly, we need nationwide reform. Slashing money IMO will have an adverse effect and only result in police departments taking underhanded tactics to get it back. Kind of like how school districts cooked the books to respond to the No Child Left Behind punitive measures.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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it seems the logical conclusion of defunding the police...
Jun 25, 2020, 11:45 PM
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would confirm your proposition
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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There is nothing silly about abolishing law enforcement.
Jun 25, 2020, 11:47 PM
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You can call it defunding or 'reimaging,' or whatever you want but if it's done it is going to lead to a state of anarchy. The House of Representin' is pushing this hard to appease the radicals tearing down statues and burning private property. If you haven't seen it then you haven't looked.
Less than 20% of Americans want to abolish, defund or reimagine the police. Most of that 20% have no clue what they are saying and won't like the results if they get what they are asking for.
Imo, anyone honestly discussing abolishing the police is simply trying to get the radicals to vote for their party. God forbid I call them the left or the right, I don't want to be part of the problem.
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All-In [42140]
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You're combing the wrong things.
Jun 25, 2020, 11:52 PM
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Defunding police doesn't mean abolishing. Those wishing to completely do away with police; well, they're being ridiculous.
Some propose cleaning house in some departments and starting fresh. Nothing wrong with that if the culture is entrenched with corruption and bad training.
Defunding means slashing budgets which are seen as overblown. And while I think you can agree as a supposed conservative that all government budgets should receive increased scrutiny for bloated numbers, across the board cuts as a knee-jerk reaction to current events is misguided.
And no, the House of Representatives isn't trying to abolish police, and you know they aren't.
Well, in case you actually do believe that, here:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/25/police-reform-plan-house-339691
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Can we just agree that words have meaning?
Jun 25, 2020, 11:57 PM
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I agree with you that many aren't saying abolish the police...however, you can't tell me some of those people carrying signs shouting "defund" don't mean abolish. These are the same ones who have chanted, "what do we want, dead cops, when do we want them, now" and the crap about pigs frying like bacon.
Why oh why can't we say "reform." That might actually draw some support from the people who are turned off by the "defunders" who want to kill the police.
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All-In [42140]
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Re: Can we just agree that words have meaning?
Jun 26, 2020, 12:11 AM
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I concur on choosing words carefully, and also believe some saying "defund" mean "dismantle," and they're clueless. And I think those who genuinely mean cutting funding simply aren't looking at the big picture.
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All-In [40927]
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Re: Can we just agree that words have meaning?
Jun 26, 2020, 8:03 AM
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de·fund
/d??f?nd/
prevent from continuing to receive funds.
"the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Can we just agree that words have meaning?
Jun 26, 2020, 8:54 AM
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wonder what an all volunteer police force would look like
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: Can we just agree that words have meaning?
Jun 26, 2020, 8:56 AM
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All-In [40927]
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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'What do we want, dead cops, when do we want it, now.
Jun 26, 2020, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to You're combing the wrong things. ] |
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Pigs in a blanket fry like bacon.' Remember how easy it was to think that BLM was just expressing their distaste for real and perceived police abuse? I didn't feel that when I read the reports of nearly a thousand police officers injured and saw the video of the ex chief laying in the street bleeding to death.
Again, the message in the street is 'Abolish.' The appeasement from politicians has changed from abolish to defund to reform and now returned toward more undefined term, reimagine.
It's the same rhetoric we heard about ICE. Some politicians backed abolishing ICE until the polls showed that a great majority of Americans appreciated the deportation MS13. Soon the language morphed from abolish to reimagine.
I don't care how Chicago handles its police department. The mayors across the nation can do what they want any time they want. The cities do not need legislation to change their police department. They want the federal government to do the heavy lifting to insulate them from the police unions which are the primary reasons police get away with skirting the law.
I don't see it that way. I think the people of the cities need to hold their local leaders responsible for issues in their districts.
I don't buy into either party's playing politics with reforming police. The cities' management has courted the police unions for votes and gave up the rights of the citizenry to remain in power. Those cities set the policies which created the situation and they should be the ones to fix it.
Americans Don’t Want to #Defund Police, Instead They Agree on Reform
https://www.cato.org/blog/americans-agree-policing-reform Americans Don’t Want to #Defund Police, Instead They Agree on Reform Connor Friedersdor writes in the Atlantic that police reform is popular, while rioting is not. He’s right. The Cato 2016 Criminal Justice National Survey found that Americans across racial and political backgrounds support a variety of policy changes that reformers say would help mend fences between police and the communities they serve.
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Legend [18019]
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Here's what "defund police" is trying to say
Jun 25, 2020, 11:57 PM
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https://fortune.com/2020/06/08/defund-the-police-what-does-it-mean-protests-george-floyd/
"Defunding the police is shorthand for a divest and invest model: divesting money from local and state police budgets and reinvesting it into communities, mental health services, and social service programs."
"Those who call for police defunding say they would rather have some duties handled by nonviolent specialists trained in social work, education, or drug counseling."
"Policing typically accounts for one-third to 60% of American cities’ annual budgets."
I would agree that "defund the police" is a horrible slogan and branding as it sounds much more radical than it should. But, I think the reforms they're asking for sound reasonable.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Here's what "defund police" is trying to say
Jun 26, 2020, 8:09 AM
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SO I can imagine the social workers drawing straws to go on domestic violence and mental crisis calls unarmed. That is gonna be some fun stuff I tell you.Nothing like showing up to a heated DV and trying to broker peace , crazy does not care either.
Pensions account for most city budgets and in fact is running close to 50%-60%.
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All-In [40927]
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Well maybe we could have some police with degrees in social
Jun 26, 2020, 8:12 AM
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work. Many have 4 year degrees in criminal justice and probably have a lot of social work training. Get a degree in social work and bump your pay 10 grand a year. Get a masters and bump it another 10.
Education and quality is the key
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Well maybe we could have some police with degrees in social
Jun 26, 2020, 8:17 AM
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Still the same issue of going on calls unarmed, that is what they really want. Good luck, glad it is not me.
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All-In [40344]
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There is a need for addiction and mental health issues
Jun 26, 2020, 8:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Here's what "defund police" is trying to say ] |
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To be addressed better.
I don’t think a social worker going on a CDV call is the answer and I don’t think that would be the practice.
People with addiction and mental issues leading to their crimes should be treated more as health patients than criminals.
My neighbors down the street would drink and get into a fight and call the cops almost weekly. Never arrested, just a waste of time for cops having to come and break them up and tell them to sober up. If they could be given treatment somehow, it would save police resources from sending 3 cruisers over and over and that money could be used to fund their treatment.
Think of it in terms of the people that everyone complains about that go to the ER for a stubbed toe. It’s a waste of resources.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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trying to create value for the sociology degree***
Jun 26, 2020, 9:24 AM
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Legend [18019]
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That's the "defund the police" argument, yep.
Jun 26, 2020, 3:36 PM
[ in reply to There is a need for addiction and mental health issues ] |
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"If they could be given treatment somehow, it would save police resources from sending 3 cruisers over and over and that money could be used to fund their treatment."
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110%er [6136]
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: The "defund police" crowd isn't really thinking this through
Jun 26, 2020, 12:03 AM
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This is how it goes, always.
The left latches onto a trendy cause. Something must be done, they proclaim. Social awareness happens. Rallies happen. Blue-haired girls and furry creatures of uncertain gender gather and shake their fists at The Man. A raftload of proposals - mostly completely impractical - get floated.
The right grumps, guffaws, and throws scorn from the cheap seats. Never going to happen, they proclaim. Everything's great, nothing needs changing, you Nancies are just stupid. Libtards. Snowflakes. Herp. Derp. Fill in the blanks with grunting noises from very dumb hostile people who are oddly unaware they are both very dumb and very hostile, just look to myriad posts below if you need help. (You really shouldn't, by this point!)
And then, inevitably, somebody comes along with a compromise. The blue-haired girls and androgynous furry creates shriek at the top of their lungs it isn't nearly enough and Think of the Children and All Future Generations to Come, while the herping and derping from the right proclaiming this is truly the Beginning of the End and a sign of the impending Apocalypse reaches a feverish crescendo.
Rinse. Repeat. We've been doing this since at least the Civil War and probably well before then.
Witness the wonders of American democracy in action. The only thing it's really got going for it is that it's about a thousand times better than any other system anybody's come up with yet. Things seem amplified because, well, Trump, but at the end of the day this extreme polarization isn't sustainable, and the mainstream of America seems to be rejecting it.
I think most of us just want quiet, at this point.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I fully embrace everything the left is doing right now
Jun 26, 2020, 7:23 AM
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100%. Take over cities, defund police, abolish police. I hope more cities get taken over as well. Dem Leaders please keep letting ALL of this happen. Please lead the charge
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Lot o points [155823]
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I’m just glad these lightweights weren’t around in the 80’s
Jun 26, 2020, 8:15 AM
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Pretty sure NWA never would have gotten off the ground if their first hit was “Defund tha Police”
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