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Topic: Fan support for basketball
Replies: 110   Last Post: Mar 21, 2019 11:12 AM by: cufan®
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Fan support for basketball

[23]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:15 PM
 

Clemson fans will support a good exciting product. In LJC's history:

In Rick Barnes' first year, average attendance was 7,297. His last 3 years the average attendance every year was over 9,300 and increased every year.

In OP's first year, average attendance was 7,681. His last 3 years the average attendance every year was above 8,400 and hit 9,465 his last year.

In CBB's first year his average attendance was 8,289. Since then he has never had a season where average attendance reached 7,900 or higher.

Think about this...while Brad Brownell has been Clemson's coach he has never had a single season where he averaged higher attendance than Larry Shyatt's worst average attendance (2000-2001 - 8,619).

Here's another one to consider...from the 1968-1969 season through the 2017-2018 season, Clemson's average attendance is 8,094 (including the first 3 seasons of that time period where average attendance was less than 5,300). Brad Brownell has gone above that average once, in his first season at Clemson.

Finally...since the 1971-1972 season (44 seasons), average attendance has dipped below 8,000 18 times. 6 of those times were with Brad Brownell as head coach (I'm not counting the season where all home games were played in Greenville).

You can talk about support from the athletic department or lack thereof, but without increasing attendance and getting people into LJC, and thus helping to increase revenues, the AD is going to have a difficult time allocating more and more resources.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


This is a great point that many do not understand..

[13]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:22 PM
 

both Barnes and OP had a groundswell of support that increased each year. Why? Because they continued to be successful each year.

Brownell has been anything but that. NCAAT first year, then 2 years with no postseason. NIT in his 4th year, then no postseason the next two years. NIT in 7th year, NCAAT in 8th year.. then back to NIT with a senior laden, preseason ranked team.

That is the problem, and to say otherwise is just delusional.

2019 orange level member


speaking of barnes isnt his squad a #2seed in the dance.


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:37 PM
 

he was better than op to me.


agreed... very good coach***


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:44 PM
 



2019 orange level member


Agreed...

[15]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:23 PM
 

People who say they aren’t supporting our NIT run are part of the problem.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Agreed...

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 10:13 PM
 

Honestly, why should I get excited about playing for 69th place? Likewise, I didn't get excited about the tangerine bowl, etc. etc.


We don’t have to be excited to support our teams!***

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 10:19 PM
 

null




2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


This is the definition of a fair weather fan***

[3]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 10:37 PM
 




Of course fans will show up when the team is winning.

[5]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:27 PM
 

That doesn’t make Clemson fans anything special when it comes to basketball.

However, this year, we were ranked in the top 20 preseason, and coming off of one of our best seasons ever, and we didn’t have strong or consistent fan support. That’s a problem.

You can argue all day that Brownell is boring, etc., but at the end of the day, the team needed (and deserved) our support this season and they didn’t get it consistently.

I can’t help but wonder if a little better fan support might’ve been the difference in 1-2 games, which would’ve been the difference in getting into the NCAAs or not.

2019 white level member

you have to be kidding... this team you are hyping all these

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:31 PM
 

accolades on also started 1-5 in ACC play...

This is cumulative effect. Period. Look at BB's tenure . NCAA then 2 years no postseason. NIT then 2 years no postseason.

Finally, NCAAT and returning everyone, and back to the NIT. That is a microcosm of his tenure, and it has nothing to do with fans. I would argue fans have been more than patient given that track record.

2019 orange level member


And also lost to Creighton, Nebraska and

[6]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:41 PM
 

Miss St pre-conference. Only win some would really recognize is at U of SuC.

Clemson fans have always shown up, at least in conference, for a winner. There simply is a Brownell fatigue factor. If people can't see that, they are willfully blind.


At Duke, At Cuse, UVA, breather, at FSU, at #21 NCSU***

[2]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:56 PM
 




no question it was a tough stretch.. absolutely


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:01 AM
 

but I still say the "tiredness" of fans is a cumulative effect over time. NCAAT, then 2 years no postseason. NIT, then two more years no postseason. Finally, NIT then NCAAT... and back to the NIT with what was likely his best team.

I have supported BB a lot... but at some point it's just time.

I think it would be really hard to recover from the cumulative effect the last 8-9 years have had... especially if next year is bad. Doesn't mean it's right... it's just reality.

2019 orange level member


How many games did you make it to this year?***

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:06 AM
 




well... I am quite a ways away***


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:13 AM
 



2019 orange level member


So you're not coming regardless of our record?***

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:16 AM
 




No, it falls on the coach and the product.

[3]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:44 PM
 

Low support the last 2 years is a reflection of the coach for the last 9 years. In business you have to listen to what your customers are telling you about your product

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I'm not a customer though, I'm a Tiger***

[2]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:57 PM
 




Question for you, Judge...


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 7:12 PM
 

What year did you graduate from Clemson? Who was coaching basketball when you were in school at Clemson?

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

only game I can think of that may have been changed by


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:49 PM
 

Better fan support was the Nebraska game


So... the responsibility of improving this program falls on the fans?

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:31 PM
 

Which group of people pays to be at games, and which group of people receives compensation?

I think the people who receive compensation need to be great, instead of waiting around for fans to be great first.

2019 white level member

Brownells brand of basketball is not only boring to watch, it's not even that successful

[3]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:27 PM
 

That's why people dont go. I dont know why some people cant understand that. ITS BORING.


^This. Successful coaches like....

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:31 PM
 

Dean Smith always play an exciting brand of basketball.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


What is so boring about it?

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:32 PM
 

Every play can’t be a dunk or three pointer.

Reading some of these comments here, you would think that we milk the shot clock down to 0 every play and only average 40 points per game.

2019 white level member

what is so boring about it is the lack of

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:45 PM
 

W's

2019 orange level member


You can’t be serious.

[2]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:39 PM
 

Lack of Ws? Brad has only had 1 losing season in his 9 years at Clemson.

In four of those nine, we have won at least 20 games.

Brad has the best ACC winning percentage in Clemson basketball history.

So if he hasn’t won enough for your liking, I am curious to know what you think about the rest of Clemson’s basketball history.

2019 white level member

funny you should ask about the rest of Clemson basketball


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:50 PM
 

history

Ellis - postseason play in 8 of 10 years

Barnes - postseason play in 4 of 4 years

OP - postseason play in 6 of 7 seasons

Brownell - postseason in 5 of 9.

2019 orange level member


Again, that is a very misleading stat.

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:53 PM
 

The NIT is much harder to get into now than it was for all of those previous coaches. A .500 overall record was all was needed in the past, which would’ve meant Brad would’ve been in the postseason 8 of his 9 years here (only 1 losing season).

2019 white level member

wow***


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:57 PM
 



2019 orange level member


Exactly the response I expected from you.***

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:03 AM
 



2019 white level member

I am just amazed at your defense of everything the last nine


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:25 AM
 

years

2019 orange level member


To be fair, Ellis and OP got teams into the NIT that

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:05 AM
 

wouldn't make it now....A .500 record used to get you in, Brad would have gotten in to 3 more NITs under that criteria, so 5 of 9 should be 8 of 9 under the old guidelines


I'm not sure this is a hill you want to die on... the lack


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:57 PM
 

of postseason clearly points to a lack of wins. He has feasted on the bottom half of the conference, which is evidenced in the lack of wins to get him into postseason.

Shyatt went to the postseason once in five years. Somehow Brad survived his first 6 years, when he only went twice.

If your argument is that he wins enough, that is just stupid. If he won enough, he would have a better than 55% in the postseason rate. That is by far the worst of the modern coaches, outside of Shyatt.

2019 orange level member


No, the discrepancy in postseason play

[3]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:07 AM
 

is largely due to the fact that the NIT is no longer an automatic for having a record at .500 or above.

If you apply the current standard for an NIT berth to prior coaches, they would have fewer postseason appearances as well.

Plus, it’s harder to compare eras because mid-majors weren’t given nearly the consideration for the NCAA Tournament in years past compared to recently.

But I realize you probably won’t even consider these points, because you seem to have your mind made up.

2019 white level member

I'm not bashing Brad or asking for him to be fired...

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:22 AM
 

Do I think it's time? Yes.

If you think we are fine, and all we need is more money influxed... then so be it. I haven't seen anything in 9 years that tells me more money will help the current situation. Maybe you have.

But I think you should tamper the defending the program. That's not a "bashing brad" statement. It's more of a "reality of where we are" statement.

2019 orange level member


Re: No, the discrepancy in postseason play


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 10:45 AM
 

Teams that were .500 did not regularly make the NIT. I could be wrong because my memory isn’t what it used to be, but I’m pretty sure I heard someone on espn say when UNC made the NIT with a .500 record in 2010 (I believe they were 16-16), that was the first time a team without a winning record got an at large bid into any postseason tournament. I’ve tried to verify this, but records aren’t with the teams in the NIT tourney using Wikipedia. Do you care to list all the teams that were .500 that got at large bids into the NIT?


Re: What is so boring about it?

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 7:19 PM
 

Besides being an average, milquetoast D-I coach, Brownell builds his team around defense. No one wants to watch low-scoring games with a coach who rarely gets his team fired up.

2019 white level member

Re: What is so boring about it?


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 10:14 PM
 

Defense is wonderful, but defense and offense is much better.


I wonder


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:20 AM
 

if UVA fans have these discussions on their message boards? They play the most boring brand of basketball possible but they always sellout every game


They also go 29-3***


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:39 AM
 




I'm confused.

[3]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:48 PM
 

Is this a fire Brownell poast or a keep Brownell poast?

2019 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Just providing data***

[3]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:24 PM
 



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Fan support for basketball

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 5:56 PM
 

Excellent research, but we don't have 9,300 seats any more.


That is irrelevant***

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:25 PM
 



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


little wonder fan support at Littlejohn is off....

[4]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 6:16 PM
 

all the freakin' basketball experts run their mouths on Tnet instead of going to the games and yelling for the Tigers.

But no one, and I mean NO ONE, will ever read Tigernet and think there's a great deal of basketball knowledge.

2019 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Re: little wonder fan support at Littlejohn is off....


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 7:27 PM
 

A MEN!! Too many pots and kettles around here


So it’s your contention that attendance sucks

[2]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:26 PM
 

because of tnet? That seems like a bit of a stretch.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Basketball fan support has always been a case of

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 7:03 PM
 

If you build it, they will come." Meaning, winning consistently will put fannies in the seats. The OP has pretty much proven that by the attendance statistics he showed. And, as recent history has shown, the opposite is certainly true as well. An underperforming team will not draw crowds consistently.

ps,
Newsflash, this is true MOST places, not just at Clemson.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: Fan support for basketball

[1]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 7:39 PM
 

I’m sadly in the “we need to move on from Brownell camp” now.

The Clemson basketball job is not easy for sure, but it should be easier to recruit now that ever before.

The facilities are far better. The Clemson brand has never been stronger both athletically and academically. Barnes and Purnell didn’t have the same advantages Brownell has. Yet they won at Clemson.

We need a DYNAMIC coach who can use the advantages of Clemson and paint a compelling picture of his vision to recruits. Also could use a sports psychologist to help the team achieve when it matters most to close out close games.

The fan support will be there, like it was before.


Sports psychologist?


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 7:43 PM
 



2019 purple level member

Re: Sports psychologist?


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:58 AM
 

Remember early on John Smoltz’s career he couldn’t throw a strike in a pressure situation? Then he got a sports psychologist and magically he became one of the most dominant pitchers of his time. The guy would wear a red shirt and sit behind home plate so Smoltz could see him.

Our basketball team needs something similar. Maybe they get too tight when the game is on the line and start to visualize the worst thing happening rather than winning just because they’ve been through the heartbreaker so many times.


Re: Sports psychologist?

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 10:03 AM
 

NO, losing is an ADDICTION. Just like those doctors in that TV ad, I do not believe in the disease concept. :)

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Real fans show up , period, we don't have many real fans***

[2]
Posted: Mar 19, 2019 11:47 PM
 




So it’s your contention that someone who is a real Clemson


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:09 AM
 

fan that lives in California should show up to every basketball game?

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


No, if you live 2500 miles away, I'll give you a pass...But


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:15 AM
 

I won't listen to a Californian tell me what will make the fans turn up, because they aren't coming regardless.


What about a family of real fans that live in places like

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 7:52 AM
 

Charlotte, Atlanta and Charleston? Do they get a pass for not going to games at 7pm or 9pm on a week night? What's the cutoff point where real fans get a pass for not showing up for games?

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


said family is clearly not

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 9:34 AM
 

real fans

2019 orange level member


Getting to Clemson is a 2 hour commitment for me too, you


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:22 PM
 

might be asking the wrong person


If fans will support a good

[3]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:08 AM
 

product then how come our average attendance wasn’t that high last year when we had a sweet 16 team?


because that's just a BS myth people hide behind***


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:10 AM
 




No, it's not a myth, it is literally right there in the


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:04 AM
 

average attendance numbers. People showed up for Barnes, they showed up for OP, heck they showed up for Shyatt. They do not show up for Brownell. They showed up his first year, but haven't shown up since then.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Why do you think that is?


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:06 AM
 

Is it really that we have a “boring team”.


No, we don't have a boring team


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:39 AM
 

In fact, me personally...I would argue that this season was anything but boring. And I want to emphasize that I am merely making assumptions based on the stats. I think the stats tell us that fans do not want to show up for the coach and his brand of basketball when you combine it with a lack of post season success.

I don't think you can say the team is boring. When you look at Brad's attendance numbers, in the 2011-2012 season he averaged 7,828. Last year he averaged 7,743...so there's not a big difference there. Historically, those attendance numbers are really low for games in LJC. The players have changed, we've had NBA-level talent come and go, we've had NIT tournament teams and an NCAA tournament team over that stretch, and we even had a renovation to the LJC, but the one constant has been Brad.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


dead on... I don't understand why it's so hard to understand

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 9:39 AM
 

that Barnes and OP tasted success and then sustained it... which brought fans. Brad has tasted success (some), but hasn't sustained it, and the numbers bear that out.

--lack of postseason play
- poor record vs. .500 ACC teams

People tend to forget that during OP's last four years, he won more games than anyone not named Duke or UNC. I was a student at Clemson under Barnes when we ascended to #2. Students were camping for tickets. Those guys maintained their success and support followed.

Those things will put people in the seats.

2019 orange level member


So asking fans to come and support

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:24 PM
 

our sweet 16 team, is too much to ask? Instead we’ll have to have been good for several years. Gotcha.


According to the experts here, winning isn’t enough

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:12 AM
 

to bring fans out if the team and/or coach are boring.

They will always have an excuse not to support basketball, including weather, game day/time, football, etc. Basically any excuse to avoid having to admit that we don’t support basketball well.

2019 white level member

how do you argue we are winning, when we can't get into


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:28 AM
 

the NCAAT more than twice in 9 years? I don't get that.

2019 orange level member


Because nobody was showing up last year either and we

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:30 AM
 

had a GREAT season


for Clemson Basketball***


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:31 AM
 




I understand that... i know what you are saying...


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:34 AM
 

but I think that is the cumulative effect of the first 7 years or so. It doesn't make it right, it's just reality. Barnes and OP brought fans out b/c they continually had success once they tasted it (NCAAT after NCAAT). That's a fact.

That's what BB hasn't been able to do, and I think that is a large reason for lack of support 9 years later.

2019 orange level member


I hear you, but that's a cop out...If it doesn't matter what


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:39 AM
 

he wins because he only went to the Dance once in his first 7 years, then what is the point? What you're saying is that he will never repent his first 7 years...So where does all this"If he was winning more" or "If our style of play was more exciting" ######### come in? According to you, the die is already cast no? Nothing else matters


I don't think the last 2 years change the first 7...


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:17 AM
 

last year was a huge step forward... but I don't see how this year could be seen as anything but a step backwards. I'm not saying he has to repent for the first 7.

If we went back to the NCAAT this year, he would be building something, much like Barnes and OP did. But this was a step backwards, considering what we were bringing back

2019 orange level member


People weren't showing up from November in THIS year,


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:43 AM
 

the season wasn't disappointing at that point...And truthfully, winning the 1-2 more close games that it would have taken wouldn't have put more fannies in the seats this year or next, because it didn't last year


We played one game at home in Nov-Dec

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:48 AM
 

against a power 5 team, Nebraska, a school not dissimilar to ours in hoops heritage. Other than 1-2 years, pre-conference attendance is normally low. Football, fall break, Thanksgiving break, school out much of Dec and playing lesser teams. That's unlikely to change unless Clemson finally becomes a consistent upper tier team


Ok so you’re saying fans

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:11 AM
 

shouldn’t have to come support the team if we have a consintently great basketball team for multiple years, but they can still call themselves “real” fans. I’m sorry I guess i just don’t have that mentality because i just don’t get that at all.


I don't think anyone is saying that at all

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 10:04 AM
 

There will always be a core base of fans that attend no matter who the coach is or how the team performs. Perhaps that is what you and CM Shack are referring to as "real fans."

But there are so many Clemson fans in places like Charlotte and Atlanta that probably have a tough time making the decision to drive 4-ish hours round trip for a Clemson basketball game, especially for weeknight games. For those fans, the opportunity to watch un-ranked Clemson beat un-ranked Pitt or GT in what will probably be a slow, low scoring game will probably be passed up. But if you have a highly ranked Clemson team that is fun and exciting to watch, no matter who the opponent is, Clemson has a much better chance of attracting those fans.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Again we had

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:57 PM
 

a high ranked Clemson team last year that in my opinion was fun to watch, but people still didn’t come to games.


But we weren't ranked until January


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:31 PM
 

Once Clemson became ranked people started coming. When we hit top 15 in February, 2 out of our last 3 home games were sold out.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


We were ranked at the beginning of this year


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:50 PM
 

and we didn’t sellout those games


where does this "real fan" nonsense come from?


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 10:08 AM
 

is there a checklist?

You guys need to stop arguing with emotions and look at facts. Attendance is down. Attendance was up under both Barnes and OP. Brad's winning % in "big games" is very poor. That results in lack of postseason. If success were sustained, as it was by other coaches, more people would come over time.

I like Brad. Always have. But, as Ben Shapiro says -- "Facts don't care about your feelings"

2019 orange level member


The real fan nonsense sprang from the style of play whining***

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:17 PM
 




Well according to the facts


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:01 PM
 

the skill-attendance ratio is unproportional, last year we had one of our best teams but had mediocre at best attendance. So the theory that winning gives good attendance is simply not valid according to the facts.


Just so I’m clear... you are choosing to disregard the


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:26 PM
 

attendance under Barnes and OP, when we were winning, correct?

2019 orange level member


We were winning last year and people didn’t

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:54 PM
 

come as much as they did when we had a worse team. Therefore the attendance was not proportional to the amount of wins we had. So fans won’t simply come due to wins.


My contention has always been that lack of attendance now


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:58 PM
 

is due to the cumulative effect of 9 years. BB has not been able to maintain any success. OP and Barnes both tasted success and maintained, and the attendance shows that. NCAAT in year 1, and not again until year 8 creates a cumulative effect that is hard to overcome.

Those are the facts

2019 orange level member


So the theory is no longer

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 2:24 PM
 

that if you put a good product on the court fans will come it is instead that the basketball team will have to be good for several years, with little to no fan support, to finally get fans to come.


You’re not that stupid... fan support wanes b/c


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 2:29 PM
 

after making the NCAAT for the 2nd time in 8 years, we are back to the NIT, with what is probably his best team.

I like BB- but it’s not even close when you compare his consistency to OP and Barnes.

2019 orange level member


Why did fan support wane at the

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 2:42 PM
 

beginning of the year?


I would love to hear why you seem convinced that this team


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 3:34 PM
 

is better than last year's team...We lost Donte and Gabe and replaced them with who that is better?


Re: You’re not that stupid... fan support wanes b/c

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2019 8:39 AM
 

Snowtown® said:

after making the NCAAT for the 2nd time in 8 years, we are back to the NIT, with what is probably his best team.

I like BB- but it’s not even close when you compare his consistency to OP and Barnes.


OP never made it out of the first round, due to the fact his teams were worn out by the time the NCAA came around.

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Re: According to the experts here, winning isn’t enough

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 10:00 AM
 

I'm no longer a season ticket buyer for basketball and this changed under Brownell. Like most people, I have limited time and funds to spend on entertainment. I found Brownell's brand of basketball hard to watch and less than entertaining for me so I stopped buying season tickets. I will say that the last two seasons have shown that Brownell has transformed his brand somewhat. I still go to games but not as many.
I think we over value this fan support when it comes to how the team responds. I know when I played that a minute after the game began I didn't know whether there were any fans present since I was focused on playing. Certainly, the school and coach want you to attend for one wants the money and the other's job depends on it.
Our JudgeHeller has some every detail facts regarding our program but facts will rarely change people's strongly held opinions as he is no doubt discovering. Sadly, many of our fans no longer support Brownell and want a new coach. It really doesn't matter who the new coach might be since it is the very fact that he is new that brings renewed hope again. It is this hope a new coach brings that Brownell no longer offers many in our fan base.


Because Brad’s style doesn’t generate excitement


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:13 AM
 

that’s the point. Try to keep up

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


So if we played an "exciting style", whatever the fooook


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:23 AM
 

that means, you would have made it tonight?


I would not have gone to last night's game regardless


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:06 AM
 

because I had other commitments. However, I went to a lot of basketball games this year, both home and away.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


so whining about the style of play was just an excuse, you

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 12:18 PM
 

already had other plans and weren't coming regardless


irregardless


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 3:02 PM
 

.

2019 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


nice deflection***


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 3:40 PM
 




Re: nice deflection***

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 3:43 PM
 



2019 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Re: Because Brad’s style doesn’t generate excitement


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:00 AM
 

GWPTiger® said:

that’s the point. Try to keep up



By your reasoning you did not attend football games when DF was the coach given his three yards and a cloud of dust offensive style


Football and basketball comparisons don't work


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 8:14 AM
 

Danny Ford won a national championship at Clemson. If Brad did that, it would change the entire conversation. Do you think Brad could ever win a national championship at Clemson?

If Brad was our football coach instead of our basketball coach, and had the same .573 winning percentage as he does in basketball, do you think he would be Clemson's football coach for 10 years?

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Exactly, and they shouldn't EVER attend a baseball game.


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 3:48 PM
 

Talk about boring.

2019 white level member

Tony Bennett's style is worse than Brad's


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 2:30 PM
 

I rarely hear anyone commenting on it because he wins games.

Winning is like 95% of getting people interested - style is relatively insignificant in comparison.


You do realize that seating capacity was reduced to 9000


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 1:22 AM
 

From 13500 in the past few years...….?


Yes, what's your point?***


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 7:55 AM
 



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


it's obvious***


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 9:22 AM
 



2019 orange level member


LJ never had a capacity of 13,500

[2]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 9:49 AM
 

that's the largest crowd ever, from 1980, and the Fire Marshall was Jake Bentley's granddaddy and said never again. Capacity was 10,000 prior to the latest remodel


There's no reason attendance should be lower for BB

[1]
Posted: Mar 20, 2019 2:28 PM
 

than Shyatt. That may just be a product of the shifting interests of society which a new coach would have to contend with as well.


This is an important point.


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 3:51 PM
 

People have so many more distractions these days, from social media, to Netflix, to tons of activities and things to do that weren't available in the past. Heck, simply being able to watch all of the games on TV in HD for free is a relatively new development.

I am not saying that this explains the attendance numbers, but I'm sure it has something to do with it.

2019 white level member

Re: Fan support for basketball


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 4:07 PM
 

All that “might” be true but it also ignore another fact - the habits of the viewing public have, over time, changed. People are often turning to TV and/or the web to watch the games - something not as prevalent in the past.

You need to look no further than T-net to see the complaints about students not showing up for football games. If fans aren’t going to show up for a football game on the weekend to see a National Champion caliber team then not showing up for a sport we have a poor history with is not surprising. It is certainly true that if Clemson won more more people would show up but that sure isn’t the only reason.


Oh also comparing numbers is also not necessarily appropriate given LittleJohn Coliseum has roughly 2,000 fewer seats than it did when thos other coaches were here.

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Yes, it's true Brad has a bit of a


Posted: Mar 21, 2019 8:13 AM
 

disadvantage today when it comes to average attendance over the season because of the LJC renovation. We can't get 11,000 people into the Clemson/Duke game anymore which can skew the numbers higher. But he could still top 8,000 in avg attendance. Also, he had 5 seasons as HC before the renovation, and attendance last year (avg 7,743) was higher than his last 2 years before capacity was lowered. Brad's last 2 seasons before LJC was closed for reno's he averaged 7,486 and 7,635. That's pretty awful.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Fan support for basketball - if you win they will come


Posted: Mar 21, 2019 11:12 AM
 

but we don't win big games in ACC

Brad is not a great recruiter and he doesn't have a great recruiter on his staff

We unfortunately play a number of teams that have an entire squad of All Americans

He gets paid a lot of money but the overall product has not changed imo

He does run a clean program and most of the teams have an overall winning records but that is not enough

I also don't understand why there is not more support from the students.

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