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All-In [46801]
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All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside
Aug 6, 2019, 10:21 AM
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How do we stop the epidemic of mass shootings in this country?
No other first world country has this amount of mass (4+) shootings. So obviously there is a way to at least decrease the hundreds and hundreds of mass shootings. The gunman in Ohio killed 9 people in 30 seconds.
So what's the answer?
No politics, no political mud slinging, what would actually work here in the US?
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All-In [40344]
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we’ve become desensitized
Aug 6, 2019, 10:34 AM
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I’m not at all blaming movies/tv and video games. I do think they have us in a mindset that this is cool. For example, it was discussed in this very lounge recently that watching cool hand Luke smoke a cigarette made them think it was cool. I think it’s awesome when someone takes a swig of whiskey and slams the glass down.
Those joungers don’t go buy a pack of smokes and I don’t slug a shot of whiskey. I think some people think it’s cool.
Same with a good ole fashioned shoot out. I get an ad on a candy crush style game on my phone for a first person sniper phone game app. I have no desire to download and play, but others do and may want a taste of what it’s actually like.
I didn’t even flinch when I heard about these over the weekend. I think a lot of people don’t flinch. I don’t think people actually understand the mass loss of life and the tragic ness unless they are directly effected.
Fill up the Internet with conspiracy theories and it just makes it worse.
Hell I had forgot about the mother Emanuel shooting until writing this. Now I remember how that united the community rather than divided. No body was playing the race card, everyone was sad of the tragedy and senseless loss of life.
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110%er [7026]
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I have never been one to blame movies/video games.
Aug 7, 2019, 12:07 PM
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However. The video games now aren't Duck Hunt. They are very real, and with the groups, you are actually communicating via headset with the people that you are shooting.
Granted it's entertainment for adults, and meant as such, but you've got preteens up all over the world spending obnoxious amounts of time daily in the virtual world of these things.
That falls on the parents for allowing it, the games are rated MA for a reason. That being said, a LOT of parents don't see it as a problem and just ignore it.
It seems impossible to me that after hundreds or thousands of hours playing these things on an undeveloped mind, that it doesn't at the very least desensitize them to these types of acts.
I'm no psychologist, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but it just seems like it's and issue. Not the only issue by any stretch, but an issue nonetheless.
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Oculus Spirit [80998]
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Become a totalitarian country and go house to house
Aug 6, 2019, 10:56 AM
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and seize all guns. Exterminate those who resist.
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Legend [19888]
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Re: Become a totalitarian country and go house to house
Aug 7, 2019, 12:59 PM
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round up and deport every single person who is in this country ILLEGALLY to show the citizens of the USA that our elected leaders respect the Constitutional “rule of law” and immediately fire any of them that have a problem with it.
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All-In [26968]
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The first thing that needs to be done is to realize
Aug 6, 2019, 11:20 AM
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That the list is extremely long of things we can do to help this issue. Some of them are the responsibility of our elected officials. Some of them are my responsibility.
Any time anyone talks about part of a potential solution, you get a lot of push back: "That's not going to solve the problem!" Well, no duh. Maybe it will move the needle a little bit. If we do 100 things that move the needle a little bit, then we've moved the needle a lot.
Here are some things that I think should be on the list. I believe ALL of them should be done. And many more things that I do not list. These are not listed in order of importance or priority.
Government responsibility:
Stricter gun laws in terms of possession of types of weapons/ammo/mods
Much more comprehensive background checks, consistent nationwide, for all gun purchases
Funding toward support for mental health issues
Business/private sector responsibility:
Advertisers or technical support/hosting for hate-filled websites remove support
Firearm business owners use discretion, over and above background check if necessary, in choosing customers
Personal responsibility:
Treat everyone with kindness
Drastically increase efforts to reach people with the Gospel of Jesus Christ
Parents drastically increase supervision of children and teens, restricting access to harmful music, games, and internet sites
Completely cease with talking about people with different opinions as "enemies"
Help a person who seems off, or at least say something to someone who can help
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All-In [26968]
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"Guns are the problem"
Aug 6, 2019, 11:35 AM
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"Video games are the problem"
"Mental health is the problem"
"People's hearts are the problem"
"Trump is the problem"
"Democrats are the problem"
"Racism is the problem"
These statements are wrong. None of them are THE PROBLEM. All of them are parts of the problem. And all must be addressed.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside
Aug 6, 2019, 11:40 AM
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I'm guessing that in a majority of mass shootings that take place, the victims know the shooter and have had a prior altercation with them. Obviously these don't go viral.
The ones where the shooters are trying to kill as many people as possible are the ones that make the news. I'd be interested in knowing how many mass shootings are crazies just shooting random people vs. people shooting someone they know.
More thorough background checks would help. A coworker was telling me that one of the recent mass shooters had a conviction that wasn't reported-not sure if this is true, just what I was told. If so, he shouldn't have been allowed to buy a gun.
Also, maybe more prisons and better enforcement of current laws.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside
Aug 6, 2019, 12:20 PM
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Looked up the mass shooting wiki for 2019 and counted 20 in Chicago alone. Maybe stop and frisk would help there.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Step one.
Aug 6, 2019, 3:55 PM
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Stop telling people that there is no heaven and helll. Stop preaching man crawled out of a mass of prehistorical muck and was created by a loving God.
Step two. Put the commandments back into the school system and allow the art teachers to explore Christian art, the English teachers to lead studies in classical Christian literature and teach evolution for what it is, a theory not settled science.
Step three. Bring the paddle back and start busting butts in when the kids first misbehave so that they learn their is a consequence for misbehavior.
Step four. Make parents responsible for their children by finding the absent fathers and locking them up when their children act out.
Step five. Get back, generally, to what made America the most powerful, influential and greatest nation in history.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Step one.
Aug 6, 2019, 4:28 PM
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Step five was because we won WW2. How we do that again?
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Step one.
Aug 6, 2019, 7:50 PM
[ in reply to Step one. ] |
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Stop telling people that there is no heaven and helll. Stop preaching man crawled out of a mass of prehistorical muck and was created by a loving God.
Step two. Put the commandments back into the school system and allow the art teachers to explore Christian art, the English teachers to lead studies in classical Christian literature and teach evolution for what it is, a theory not settled science.
Step three. Bring the paddle back and start busting butts in when the kids first misbehave so that they learn their is a consequence for misbehavior.
Step four. Make parents responsible for their children by finding the absent fathers and locking them up when their children act out.
Step five. Get back, generally, to what made America the most powerful, influential and greatest nation in history.
This country is for all Americans, not just religious ones. It's in the constitution.
I don't disagree with the paddle, I had my share.
Agree with make parents pay the price for child misbehavior
Not sure what 'generally' made America so great. Largely the abundance of natural resources, at least that's where the money came from. I love my country, but we just allowed women to vote and outlawed child labor this century. We stopped locking up gay people for being gay in the 60's and stopped jailing people who married outside of their race in the 60's as well. It depends on how you define 'great'I suppose. 
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110%er [7026]
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This century, and long before anywhere else in the world.
Aug 7, 2019, 12:12 PM
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So there's that.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside
Aug 6, 2019, 4:27 PM
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All guns outlawed except those for safety that can be kept on the body and hunting rifles/shotguns. It could be possible to acquire other guns with a very stringent license process.
Guns already owned are grandfathered, but the government would have a buyback program.
Universal registration and requirement to hold a license to own any firearm.
Universal background checks, including for person to person sales.
Liability for gun owners whose weapons are stolen to be used in crimes because they were not properly secured.
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Standout [345]
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Re: All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside
Aug 6, 2019, 4:43 PM
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First, a lot of people are making some leaps in logic that just won’t work. This is not meant as an attack on anyone but, for example, religion is not the answer to gun violence. Lack of religion has zero association with how violent or likely someone is to commit a crime. None. No correlation.
Single parent or divorced is certainly an issue as it can lead to a higher percentage chance of crime for children but there are no good answers here. Staying in a bad relationship can be just as damaging to a child or worse than getting a divorce.
Video games don’t make people shoot others any more than owning a gun is going to make you shoot something. Same with movies, music, books or anything else. That is just as bad as saying “Well, that person enjoyed hunting so of course they wanted to see what it was like to shoot people.” No, it has nothing to do with the act of committing mass murder. You could make an argument that it influences how, but not if they are actually going to do it. For example, the Columbine morons maybe don’t show up in trench coats if it wasn’t made popular by media. That doesn’t mean because they liked trench coats that they went on a shooting spree or if they didn't like them they weren't going to do it.
To me, there is only one thing in common across the board in every one of these mass shootings. Hate and anger. Someone hates something people are doing or the people themselves and the only solution is to kill folks to cause a change or punish them.
So, how do you treat/prevent the anger?
Having parents much more involved with their kids is certainly a good start and can’t hurt (assuming they aren’t bad parents) but is that something you can reasonable enforce or even demand?
Support for those that feel left behind or ostracized? Sure, it might help but it isn’t going to make a huge dent.
Better training and detection for counselors in high schools? Maybe a good place to start but teens are potentially so full of angsts and anger naturally. How do you truly distinguish between venting, natural hormone pissiness and genuine danger/warning signs?
Gun laws, again, might help in some situations and like the rest is better than nothing but not a final solution on its own.
Really, there are a ton of things we can do there is just no way to know how effective any of them would be without trying and not trying is what bothers so many of us.
Finally, as you pointed out, there are plenty of western cultures that have very low rates of these incidents compared to us. Perhaps more or better answers can be found in that difference. We rank as more stressed, less happy and less fulfilled than our western peers pretty consistently. Maybe we look to those places first and see what, if any ideas we may be able to pull that would potentially work here. Reducing the anger would go a long way to reducing the loss of life.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside
Aug 6, 2019, 4:52 PM
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We cant stop them, but we can slow them down. First thing to do is to get our president to stop holding hate rallies every couple of weeks. The next step would be to stop having imbeciles justifying his actions.
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All-In [40344]
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you know how I know you skimmed the thread title?
Aug 6, 2019, 5:43 PM
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I find it amazing that people who own guns can hear these hate rallies and manage not to kill, how do they do that?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: you know how I know you skimmed the thread title?
Aug 7, 2019, 1:26 PM
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Yep, but some are triggered by these rallies to hate. Some act out on that hate like El Paso.
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Rock Defender [53]
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The people in this country are just messed up
Aug 6, 2019, 5:44 PM
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We are not a civic-minded place.
The emphasis on individualism in this country does not really produce happy communities. Too many people compare themselves to others. Social media is terrible for mental health.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Oh, yeah. Nobody needs a weapon designed for mass destruction.
Aug 6, 2019, 5:45 PM
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I really don't care if it's a hobby.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside
Aug 6, 2019, 7:01 PM
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The most important thing would probably be to end all of the hate speech, hate rallies, hate tv, hate radio, hate tweets, on the right. That's the biggest problem this country faces when it comes to mass shootings. Thats why we had El Paso.
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110%er [7026]
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I'm guessing your extent of reading
Aug 7, 2019, 12:16 PM
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that dudes "manifesto" is limited to what you've seen on your favorite like minded news channel.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I'm guessing your extent of reading
Aug 7, 2019, 12:55 PM
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I just know what Trump says and tweets. Thats enough.
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110%er [7026]
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Got it.. Trump hate blinders. Nevermind then.
Aug 7, 2019, 1:08 PM
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Nothing to see here.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Got it.. Trump hate blinders. Nevermind then.
Aug 7, 2019, 1:17 PM
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No hate. Just recognizing a dirtbag who fueled the fire to get dozens of innocent people killed and injured. Yeah nothing to see here. You seem smart. What's it like to be you?
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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So the shootings in Dayton were justified because of...
Aug 7, 2019, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: All of the rhetoric and political posturing aside ] |
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the hate coming from Trump? Do you have any idea how eccentrically twisted your thought process has become from Trumphate? Dems began identity politics and anyone who isn't on board with identity politics is the problem?
I see no end to any of this.
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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compromise is the best way forward
Aug 7, 2019, 10:38 AM
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and for people who want solutions to problems, this is actually what needs to happen.
First act would be to make a single class of weapon untouchable, enshrined in special amendment in the constitution, by specifically and categorically making it unregulated by government. No background checks, no licenses, no registration, etc. You want it, you can get it no questions asked. This unregulated class would be limited to the bolt-action rifle. We can negotiate the specific definitions of what could be included in this class.
Then regulate the crap out of everything else including handguns. Change the name on the DMV to the Division of Motor Vehicles and Firearms. Mandatory gun training and testing for every other class of weapon. Also mandate that you will have have to provide evidence of insurance coverage to own it.
Just so you know who I stole this idea from:
http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2007/01/brin-classics-jefferson-rifle.html
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All-TigerNet [10149]
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I think in all of these cases mental health was an
Aug 7, 2019, 12:27 PM
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underlying issue. Most cases we find after the fact that the individual had lots of mental health related problems. I believe this needs to be addressed. Granted if intense bcacground checks prohibited one form buying a gun legally if they were set on killing they would buy on black market or set off explosives or drive their vehicle into a crowd.
We had similar guns 30 years ago but didn't have these massacres in the US. A lot has changed during that time. People in general just seem more hostile than years ago.
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All-TigerNet [10149]
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Re: I think in all of these cases mental health was an
Aug 7, 2019, 12:43 PM
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Perhaps change the policy on how we deal with these shooters. After an incident we all want to know what triggered them, and who they were. What if we stopped publicizing their names, their manifestos, their angers, and instead took them out of the public eye. Keep them isolated from the press, provide them treatment and let justice do its job.
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110%er [7026]
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Most have done this to a certain extent. At least with the
Aug 7, 2019, 1:12 PM
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names. But even though the media doesn't say the name, they say any and everything else they can find out.
In this case for instance cherry picking parts of the "manifesto" that agree with one side or the other's political leanings.
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