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Topic: A counterpoint on the "expecting on time is racist" backlash
Replies: 32   Last Post: Apr 21, 2017 2:51 PM by: GWPTiger®
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A counterpoint on the "expecting on time is racist" backlash

[12]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:10 AM
 

I keep reading outrage on this site about the Clemson diversity program, and in particular the idea that "expecting people to be on time is racist". I'm here to offer a counter-argument to the outrage.

To get this out of the way, I am VERY conservative, politically. And this isn't about the overall program - just the one example that people keep pointing to.

Anyway, if you actually read the scenario that is creating the lightning rod of outrage, it describes a situation where you are setting up a meeting with visiting professors and students from a foreign country. They show up 10 minutes late, and you are asked if you should:

1) Politely ask the late party to apologize
2) Explain "in our country 9:00 means 9:00"
3) As the meeting organizer, he should recognize cultural differences that may impact the meeting and adjust accordingly.

It never says "expecting people to be on time is racist". Never says it. It DOES say that some cultures are not as adherent to time as we are. This is true. It is comical to me to act like that is an offensive concept. If you are an adult working in the international business community, you are expected to understand this. When I started working for an international company in the 1990s, I was given a copy of "Kiss, Bow or Shake Hands" and when I went overseas I was expected to have read through the cultural issues of that country.

And please stop acting like everyone in America is on time for everything. Professors are late to class. Managers are late to meetings. It happens all the time. And yep...it's inconsiderate. But we're not Germans. We're not that strict on time.

The question didn't imply that a professor should accept people being late to his or her class. It said "for one meeting of visiting professors being ten minutes late, do you call them out on it or move on with the understanding that that's just how they do and you're not there to teach them about America or 'fix' their culture."

Again, I have no interest in any of this training or Clemson having a "Chief Diversity Officer" at all. I am just annoyed that this one example is getting so much publicity. It's probably the correct answer.

null


Irony is using the label "Chief" as a position for diversity***

[6]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:20 AM
 



2019 student level member

Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: Irony is using the label "Chief" as a position for diversity***

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:32 PM
 

True....it should be "Arbitor" or "Umpire" ;)


Are they required to have a Master's degree?***

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:53 PM
 



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Photobucket is holding my sig pic hostage. Screw them.


Here's what I have a problem with regarding your

[10]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:21 AM
 

counterpoint. You acknowledge that as a business person traveling overseas, Americans need to be familiar with business culture and nuances of that country and adhere to them. Yet, when these people come to America, WE should still be sensitive and adhere to their culture? Nope, no way. When I travel to Germany for meetings, I make sure and abide by their business culture, but when they come to the US for meetings, they should abide by ours.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I bet your ### is on time in Germany!***

[2]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:24 AM
 



2019 white level member

Yep, not early, not late, but exactly on time***


Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:25 AM
 



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Here's what I have a problem with regarding your

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:25 AM
 

What's the chances you're always making meetings with foreign students. And if you do all the time, maybe you would have more insight.

This is the right answer for the question.

2019 student level member


To be fair

[3]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:27 AM
 

I don't even know what you're asking right now.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Ed Zachary. I lived in a foreign country for two years and

[3]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:25 AM
 

I didn't expect the locals to change their culture and customs to fit me.

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.


So, basically what you're saying is when the coots come to

[7]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:28 AM
 

Clemson, they should abide by our rules while getting curb-stomped. And when we go to their house, we abide by their rules while curb-stomping them.

Amirite?

null


Absolutely and fair point. But here's the thing...when you

[3]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:30 AM
 

went to Germany, you thought you were abiding by all of their cultural norms. As a show of respect. But guess what? You probably weren't. You probably missed some. There are things not documented in books and there are things that you probably forgot out of habit. And they probably let it slip. Because they're adults too, and they know that you're not German.

Unquestionably a group of visiting professors and students should understand the cultural norms of America if they come to visit. But if they are ten minutes late (TEN MINUTES) to a meeting, and they come from a culture where it's just not as big of a deal, and you are managing one meeting, would you REALLY think the appropriate thing to do would be to chastise them? Or tell them to apologize? I certainly wouldn't. I'd make the time as productive as possible.

If they were a student of mine from a culture that didn't value promptness and showed up late to my class, I'd certainly correct them. If they were my employee, absolutely. A new long-term supplier...yep, probably. One meeting? Ten minutes? I wouldn't even mention it.

Of course, the question is asked in a vacuum. Are the other parties really upset or frustrated? Did they have a very short window with a hard stop? Are they meeting as a big favor to you or these guests? The question doesn't delve into this, and all of it could change your approach.

And again, let's all stop acting like Americans are so prompt. People are late to things all the time in this country. Americans are late all the time. And yes, it is always a show of a lack of consideration. But let's not pretend like we are so devoted to time just so we can feign outrage at this one question.

null


Re: Absolutely and fair point. But here's the thing...when you

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:40 AM
 

I'd mention it at some point. It is rude and disrespectful. It says your time is not as important as mine. I'm not about to let that pass.

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I agree with most of that

[4]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:41 AM
 

Where I disagree is that the backlash is in relation to Americans' devotion to being on time. It's my understanding that the backlash lies within being told by a chief diversity director that Americans should be ok with foreign professors or students being late because it's culturally sensitive.

Now, on the flip side, you're right about people being on time in America as it is unfortunately becoming more of a habit. I can imagine that lots of American students show up to class late. So perhaps on a college campus Americans are not setting a good example for our foreign visitors. I can see that as being a problem as well. If American students and professors are being reprimanded for their tardiness then it is fair to offer a similar reprimand to foreign students and professors. If it is being overlooked when Americans are late, then the same should be overlooked for foreigners as well.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Absolutely and fair point. But here's the thing...when you

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:44 AM
 

I have experienced the continual lateness in the work place. One can spin it how ever they want to but in my experience, it was simply an excuse for not being on time. These parties were on time for social events but not workplace events. Why should they get paid the same as a punctual person when they work less hours at the end of the week ? I have the same feeling about smokers. I'm a non-smoker. At one time, smokers were allowed to go outside and smoke whenever they had the urge but us non-smokers stayed inside and worked. My Dad would never hire a painter that smoked and pay him by the hour. He would get paid for smoking breaks.

2019 purple level member


I could work for ^^^ THIS ^^^ person!

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 11:06 AM
 

You've nailed it concerning yes/no, true/false, and black/white multiple 'choice' question/answers, such as this.

To the OP's point, it is truly sad as there are those that turn this into an opportunity to snipe and make accusations, snarky comments, etc. Unfortunately, many today have perfected that annoying tendency and behavior, and it seems in some cases, take pride in creating controversy and division. As for them, I refuse to engage in their toxic behavior.

The question - and topic - however, are actually a legitimate, and very good case study for discussion, learning, and growing as a person, regardless of race, country of origin, etc. But only if you are willing to communicate WITH each other, sharing thoughts, ideas, experiences - and opinions - in an educated, rational and reasonable attempt to learn, grow and improve! As you point out, there are so many variables to the situation, that the issue has to be addressed in an open discussion forum and/or seminar type setting. Not on a multiple choice questionaire!

Then, if they STILL won't show up on time, we still have more MOABs that are reaching the end of their shelf life. Perhaps they need a little more persuading?

AIM HIGH!!!

(and)

GO TIGERS!!!!!

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wwLBBd


^^^I'm on board with the MOABs idea***

[2]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 12:04 PM
 



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: ^^^I'm on board with the MOABs idea- I always think

[2]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 12:09 PM
 

Massive Ordinance A$$es Blownoff

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Basically***

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 12:12 PM
 



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


When in Rome...***

[3]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 10:50 AM
 



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Go on...***

[3]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 11:08 AM
 



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Go to... the Colosseum?

[2]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 2:15 PM
 

Eat lasagna?


And then?***

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 2:51 PM
 



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Who is buying, who is selling. My guess if a customer...

[2]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:10 PM
 

On a multi million contract is 45 minutes late .... they are not told told to go take a hike.

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Well yeah, that's a valid point...

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:26 PM
 

I'd also thank them for showing up at all and offer to wash their car for them.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


You offered me more than that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:29 PM
 

much more

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.


Re: Here's what I have a problem with regarding your

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:10 PM
 

It's these lazy millenials

2019 white level member


Your company expected you to adhere to the customs of

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 11:16 AM
 

other countries but Americans shouldn't expect the same from visiting foreign business people? Is that what you are trying to say?

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Re: A counterpoint on the "expecting on time is racist" backlash

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 11:56 AM
 

That is a stupid example and kind of pointless.

No one is going to get upset about someone being 10 minutes late to a one time meeting.

There are hundreds of reasonable reasons they could have been late for one meeting.

Use an example where the lateness actually matters because it's recurring and it affects other people.

Is it okay to complain to/about a grad student that is always 15 minutes late to teach a lab that has to end on time?

Reasonable people would say yes and it has nothing to do with cultural insensitivity.

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It's much a do about nothing...

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:02 PM
 

The people who came out with article claim they have slideshow, yet didn't include said slideshow in the article. That most likely means the actual slideshow contradicts what they're trying to say what it says. Just a far right website looking for clicks and spreading falsehoods to try to bolster their point of view.

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Re: A counterpoint on the "expecting on time is racist" backlash

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 1:28 PM
 

I think the core to the "backlash" is the insane idea that America is somehow superior to other countries or cultures. That simply is not born out by facts or history. Like the old justification for monarchy, some believe that America was chosen by God.

I'm continually amazed at the desire to inject "we're better than they" into any available situation.

I was raised in the South, we act differently and have cultural differences from people who were raised in northern New Jersey. It's not about being 'better' than someone...it's just about being different and can we be kind and forgiving to those we feel are different?

Further, kindness and forgiveness are the hallmarks of Southern hospitality.

Move along, nothing to see here.


Just another example of political correctness at all cost.

[1]
Posted: Apr 21, 2017 2:16 PM
 

You might not see a problem but most people do, liberals don't.

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Go back and the watch the Tucker Carlson show.


Posted: Apr 21, 2017 2:48 PM
 

The interviewee at Clemson did say "racist."


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