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Oculus Spirit [90819]
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Didn’t know the AP could declare new President-Elect..
Nov 9, 2020, 9:19 AM
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thought it was the Electoral College Commission.
Why is Biden not waiting to see how last votes are counted and the probable complete recounts in 2-3 states and the litigation process?
Gore waited 25+ days.
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All-In [46825]
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Math
Nov 9, 2020, 9:20 AM
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the people counting the votes probably didn't miscount thousands of votes. Maybe a handful. But not thousands.
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Oculus Spirit [97724]
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Trump loses every time on a recount and he knows that
Nov 9, 2020, 9:40 AM
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2000 was a 600 vote difference in one state, Florida.
This is tens of thousands of votes difference, in multiple states. Trump is seeking to have votes excluded, not suing for recounts. This is why Trump has already lost. The only state even possibly in play with a recount would be Georgia, and that's even a massive stretch.
But Trump is going to Trump.....and obstruct and stall at every possible point, because he's that personality type. I wouldn't be surprised to see him escorted from the White House eventually. He will outdo Gore and the 2000 dems by a long shot. It will be truly a ugly chapter in White House history, a grand finale of sorts. If he can't win, he will go down in a very ugly manner. That's the man conservatives supposedly wanted.
Dems and pubs BOTH would be wise, however, to pay VERY close attention to what he tapped into. It's real, and someone rational needs to step in and fix it. Obama won't, Biden won't. Trump won't. Main reason I have zero hope in this election. Maybe Biden can change, but the pressure on him is to go left, and he needs to go right, bigly. The mandate here wasn't to turn left. It was close because the White House was occupied by a person with the right rhetoric, and HORRIBLE execution of the office.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Trump loses every time on a recount and he knows that
Nov 9, 2020, 10:01 AM
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Tiggity,
Much of what you say is on the spot, but I would like to see us avoid predicting Trump trashing even more norms and institutions on his way out of office. If he does so, there will be plenty of time to condemn him for that, but I think predicting such invites more damage and sort of normalizes that sort of bad behavior.
As far as whether we should be moving right or left, you are onto something there as well, but not to the extent that I think you intend. Of all of the things I hope for as a result of this election, number one is some sort of return to considering empirical evidence and rational thinking. (I know that there are plenty of obstacles to that hope, but I think Trump was the biggest one)
I think that if we can stop demonizing each other and have a reasonable, fact-based discussion about some issues we might find plenty of common ground. I personally think, that some progressive ideas play well with the majority of Americans, if we can discuss them rationally. Do leftists need to come in towards the middle - yes. But so do conservatives.
As an example, the people of Florida voted for Trump, but they also voted for a living wage. Once we strip away the misconceptions and discuss the actual facts reasonably, we can make some progress together. I am hopeful that we can find the proper balance this way.
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All-In [31896]
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Because 2000 was 500 something votes in 1 state...
Nov 9, 2020, 9:28 AM
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so a recount in a county with +7 in one direction mattered. And they were manual punch ballots (remember hanging chad).
Most, if not all states, have some form of electronic counting and have done away with methods that could lead to interpretation of things like hanging-chads.
Also, the margins in these states are in the 10's of thousands.
There has been no evidence presented of anything remotely close to something that would change a state result.
For Trump to win, he would have to flip PA (~45k votes), GA (~11k votes), AZ (~16k votes) and NV (~35k votes). You ever seen a recount swing more than in the hundreds of votes?
In other words, it's over.
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All-In [34108]
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Joined: 9/13/99
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The idea of calling a state before the vote is certified
Nov 9, 2020, 9:30 AM
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is something that began FOREVER AGO and no one had a problem with it until now.
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Hall of Famer [22945]
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Why should he wait when results are known?
Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM
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How long did Agent Orange wait to declare in 2016?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Didn’t know the AP could declare new President-Elect..
Nov 9, 2020, 9:35 AM
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Because it's over. Trump was blown out. Even a recount won't change anything.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Didn’t know the AP could declare new President-Elect..
Nov 9, 2020, 9:47 AM
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Bill,
Neither Gore or Bush had 270 yet. Florida was in dispute (by everybody) and it was needed to get to 270.
The AP has declared a winner for decades. They take the responsibility seriously and are generally cautious in their decisions.
Obviously the ECC is the official word, but we have often not waited on them to move forward as a country.
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All-In [26968]
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AP nor any other media does officially
Nov 9, 2020, 10:34 AM
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decide anything. It's just traditional for them to make the projection/call, and people generally in the past have been OK with it, understanding that the official certification will happen later.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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the AP is going to be real embarrassed...
Nov 9, 2020, 10:46 AM
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when we find out how much Trump actually won by.
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110%er [5854]
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Re: Didn’t know the AP could declare new President-Elect..
Nov 9, 2020, 10:51 AM
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https://apnews.com/article/fb2e92a47f054019a2589ace78d20836 Trump claims astounding victory as America's 45th president WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump claimed his place Wednesday as America's 45th president, an astonishing victory for the celebrity businessman and political novice who capitalized on voters' economic anxieties, took advantage of racial tensions and overcame a string of sexual assault allegations on his way to the White House. His triumph over Hillary Clinton, not declared until well after midnight, will end eight years of Democratic dominance of the White House and threatens to undo major achievements of President Barack Obama. Trump has pledged to act quickly to repeal Obama's landmark health care law, revoke America's nuclear agreement with Iran and rewrite important trade deals with other countries, particularly Mexico and Canada. As he claimed victory, Trump urged Americans to "come together as one united people" after a deeply divisive campaign.
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All-In [34108]
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Re: Didn’t know the AP could declare new President-Elect..
Nov 9, 2020, 11:12 AM
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Yup. And the only person who claimed voter fraud in 2016 was Trump himself, who said illegal votes caused him to lose the popular vote.
Even in victory, he invents lies about why he should have won more.
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