A response to ignorant comments about me concerning Islam

I posted this as a comment on a thread a couple of weeks ago, and soon found myself as the butt of many jokes. However, the funny part of the joke is the fact that very few if none of the ones making comments have actually visited an Islamic Republic, and witnessed the treatment of Non-Muslims there. I might add that about 60% of all Muslim nations were once Christian lands that were conquered over a 100 year period during the 7th and 8th centuries.

So... Here goes.

1. Not all "Muslims" are terrorist. However, the "religion" itself is "terrorism". Therefore, if any Muslim should follow Islam to the exact letter then that would then be called "terrorism" by legal definition. Many Atheist and ignorant people would claim that the same could be said for Christianity, but consider the following. Christians follow the teachings of Christ, (or at least they are supposed to), and Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammad. In the Bible Christ never commanded Christians to kill anyone. In the Quran, Muhammad commanded it 109 times. Another difference between the to figureheads would be the Christ often spoke in parables whereas Muhammad spoke direct commands. So if Muhammad commanded for Muslims to kill non-believers ie Kafirs who practice "fitna" ie disbelief, then it would be assumed that a believer of Islam should take that as a literal command. Seeing as Muhammad killed people with his own hands while Christ died for others would indicate that Islam and Christianity are polar opposites in that respect.

2. Why Islam should be illegal? That is very simple to answer. Islam is more than a religion of establishment. It is a political system at it's core, and Islam forbids democracy, liberty, monarchs, hierarchy, and any other form of government outside of an Islamic Republic, governed by Sharia Law. This is the whole debacle that ISIS is threatening everyone over. They hate the Saudi Government because it is a hierarchy of a royal family. They do not like Syria for the same reason. When you look at Iraq and Iran they are Islamic Republics, but they have a democratic structure to them as well. So they view that as haraam. The very religion of Islam itself is a hostile threat towards our constitutional beliefs.

3. Consider this... Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet today. It is #2 in demographic to Christianity, but is quickly catching up. The reason for this is not because people are converting in mass droves to the religion, but simply because they are breeding at a rapid pace. Each man in Islam is allowed 5 wives. Each wife gives birth to as many as 9 children. You can confirm this in world history by noticing how they conquered 2/3 of the Christian lands over a 100 year period after the death of Muhammad. This was the very reason for the Crusades. Currently, there are roughly 20million Muslims in the U.S. Which would mean that within 6 or 7 years that number could multiply to a staggering 60 or 70million. If that happens, then it could mean that U.S Public policy could come under attack as well as Constitutional Rule of Law. Once they become the majority in America then we will end up like Britain, Germany, Spain, France, New Zealand, and Australia where there are people being lynched, and the governments there have no choice but to surrender to the demands of the Muslim communities due to fears of terrorism. At this rate, within 30-40 years, Islam will be the majority of the population in America. Something to be concerned about in my opinion.

4. How are non-Muslims treated in Islamic Republics governed by Sharia Law? The answer is simple, they are treated like second class citizens and subjugated to slavery, violence, and constant harassment by the local authorities. Unless America wants that to happen then I suggest that we become a bit more vocal in our expression of support for the U.S Constitution.

SIDE NOTE: In respects to Christian violence in historical events, most people are unaware that for many centuries the Christian people weren't allowed to own or even read a Bible. Well, those that could read in the first place. They were being convinced that the Bible commanded conquest and other events alike by Kings and religious leaders. Many people lost their lives trying to spread the Bible and declare the truth about the Bible in those times. Which was also one of the reasons for the Protestant Churches in the first place. Also, one of the biggest reasons for the pilgrimage of the Americas... It was for religious freedoms and the attempt to form a secular government that would respect Christianity to a large degree and allow the freedom of worship among it's citizens.

Message was edited by: ChestyPuller0311®

ChestyPuller0311®

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Re: Am I to understand

Aug 12, 2015, 1:30 AM [ in reply to Am I to understand ]

> That you're calling for Islam to be illegal in
> America? To go against one of the most important
> tenants our founding fathers put in the
> Constitution?
>
> How, Chesty, do you go about implementing such a
> ruling? How do you keep America from becoming just as
> terrible as those nations that persecute Christians
> for following their faith?
>
> You realize that making a religion illegal and
> punishing people who follow it has never, ever
> produced anything good. And in order to even attempt
> it, that nation basically becomes one that cannot
> claim freedom as one of its foundations.

Well, what if my religion says that I have to cut off the arms of all blue eyed babies? Why cannot I practice that religion in America.. Surely it would be unconstitutional to deny me my right to cut off the arms of all blue eyed babies now wouldn't it? Of course not, because to infringe on the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for another individual is in itself a violation against the US Constitution. When you examine Islam at it's core, it is a direct hostile threat to the U.S Constitution since it forbids any governance outside of Islam itself. Therefore the religion itself it Unconstitutional and should be deemed illegal.

Would you agree that the Bible directs the actions of Christians and the Qur'an directs the actions of Muslims?

The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations. Below is the illustration of that wonderful love that Muhammend #### BE UPON HIM shared with the Christians and Jews. This isn't even passages from the Hadiths or the Sunnah. The passages from Qur'an are directly from Muhammed himself. Now there is a challenge for you Dalton Kern. Please find a passage from the BIBLE where "JESUS" commanded violence of any sort.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

PS... ISLAM FORBIDS FREEDOM AND LIBERTY.. ONLY SUBMISSION TO ALLAH!!! The word, "Islam" means Submission when translated into English.

Message was edited by: ChestyPuller0311®

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Our country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any America because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race.

~Chesty Puller
Lt.General United States Marine Corps

Most of my atheist brethren consider Islam to be by far a

Re: A response to ignorant comments about me concerning Islam

Re: A response to ignorant comments about me concerning Islam

After we get rid of the Islams, maybe then we can get rid

Re: After we get rid of the Islams, maybe then we can get rid

That awkward moment where...

Re: That awkward moment where...

Chesty, if you were on my reading level

Same God, but not "his" God or whatever he's thinking.***

Re: Chesty, if you were on my reading level

I'm sure...

Re: After we get rid of the Islams, maybe then we can get rid

How are Jewish, Catholic and Baptist a threat?

Re: How are Jewish, Catholic and Baptist a threat?

Most of us are not trying to legislate morality either.

Re: Most of us are not trying to legislate morality either.

Well....

In addendum...

The founders weren't educated in church run colleges?***

Does that automatically mean...

Where are the historians?

All that mumbo jumbo you just wrote...

Re: Well....

Then that is why the Constiution must arise above it!

Well, if I were trying to legislate morality I'd introduce..

No offense, Chesty

a strange religion, that any intelligent person should avoid

Re: a strange religion, that any intelligent person should avoid

Try reading the thread before you respond. It works better.***

Re: Try reading the thread before you respond. It works better.***

It appears you can't see anything beyond your own opinion.***

Re: It appears you can't see anything beyond your own opinion.***

2 gets you 20 you know next to nothing about Islam.***

Am I to understand

That's narrow and therefor inaccurate.

Re: That's narrow and therefor inaccurate.

Who said outlawing a religion is the solution?

Re: Who said outlawing a religion is the solution?

Do you want Islam outlawed?

Re: Do you want Islam outlawed? NO,

Re: Who said outlawing a religion is the solution?

It's "narrow" and "inaccurate"...

Not particularly.

Muslims make up 0.8 percent of U.S. population.

Re: Muslims make up 0.8 percent of U.S. population.

How many new Muslims immigrate to the U.S. each year?***

How many are born in America every year?

I'd love to wager some serious money on that claim.

Re: Muslims make up 0.8 percent of U.S. population.

Re: Muslims make up 0.8 percent of U.S. population.

Re: Not particularly.

Again with the false dichotomy.

Re: Again with the false dichotomy.

Re: Again with the false dichotomy.

Re: Not particularly.

Re: Not particularly.

This is why people should study Nazi's.

Re: This is why people should study Nazi's.

Re: Am I to understand

Not that this is going to do ANY good... but

Mr. Puller, there is much truth in your post.

Re: Mr. Puller, there is much truth in your post.

Allow me to translate your BS...

Re: Allow me to translate your BS...

You are an extremely confused individual.

Re: You are an extremely confused individual.

Re: You are an extremely confused individual.

Re: You are an extremely confused individual.

Embarrass me, my foot.

By the by,

Re: By the by,

*Mic dropped.****

What does this mean, please?

Re: What does this mean, please?

Basically...

You know how you can tell that you're wrong....

Hey, screw you, man!

I appreciate that, flow, although

Re: You are an extremely confused individual.