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A different question on immigration.
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A different question on immigration.


Jun 24, 2019, 2:05 PM

Let's answer a couple questions first to get those out of the way.

1.) Illegal immigration is illegal...period.

2.) America as a country has a right to deport illegal immigrants and control it's own borders.


So we don't get detracted, lets stipulate that those to points are not in dispute.


The question I have is why are so many people fleeing central America? Is there some way we can effect that?

I've done some research and I'm stunned by it. One of the worst countries people are fleeing is Honduras. Although it's murder rate has gone down, it's economy is in shambles with nearly 2/3rds of it's labor force unemployed or underemployed. It is politically unstable, corrupt and rocked by scandals(recently the Justice Dept. charged the President's brother with drug trafficking.

Much of the same is true for other central american countries. But where does that leave us? Well, since 2017 the U.S. Taxpayer has provided Honduras with $340,947,214.00 in 'aid'. This to a country with a population of 9.6 million.

Are we propping up corrupt politicians who pocket our aid and plunder their own countries?

Go to this site to see how much aid we give to Honduras and any other country you would like to know about. It's astonishing.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/HND


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decriminalizing drugs would pay dividends***


Jun 24, 2019, 2:28 PM



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Re: A different question on immigration.


Jun 24, 2019, 2:36 PM

http://theconversation.com/how-us-policy-in-honduras-set-the-stage-for-todays-migration-65935

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/07/crisis-of-honduras-democracy-has-roots-in-us-tacit-support-for-2009-coup

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actually a good well thought out post


Jun 24, 2019, 2:37 PM

I think I would agree. Kind of like giving Iran/NK 100+ billions dollars which never go to the people

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Re: A different question on immigration.


Jun 24, 2019, 2:39 PM

The question I have is why are so many people fleeing central America? Is there some way we can effect that?

Answer: Because they can get into the US, get a job, make 50 times more money than in their third-world home, and send money back to their family so they can live like kings, and/or not die from some treatable disease or starvation.

Those countries have always been poor. Even poorer in the past. The only difference is we started refusing to enforce our own immigration laws with a wink and a nod to their cheap labor. McMansions are not cheap to build without illegal labor. My own house included.

Illegals send tens of billions (maybe more) dollars to their home countries. EVERY SINGLE illegal I've investigated (including the three this AM) were sending money back home. If you can't seal the border, or deport, then I say cut off wire transfers and punish employers and the problem stops. THEN our water bills, electric bills, new houses, Big Mac's, and everything else gets expensive, causing inflation. ;)

Get it. Then inflation causes our Federal government to spend $100+ billion MORE to service our debt, for every single percentage point. 6% inflation and debt servicing becomes a bigger expense than Social Security, or Medicare, or whatever. It will be our biggest expense. Really at 4% inflation it becomes our biggest expense. We already spend $400+ billion to service it (minimum payment). We need cheap labor, and cheap imported goods. Really, it's the corner we're painted into for decades.


Message was edited by: Tiggity®


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The US has a long history of involvement in Central America


Jun 24, 2019, 2:55 PM

We have to take some responsibility for the mess it's become.

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we are the drunk rich trust fund kid that


Jun 25, 2019, 10:03 AM

ruins everything we touch, and ends up alienating the whole world because we dont understand the perspective from which they are looking at the same problem.

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Honduras was the original banana republic


Jun 24, 2019, 2:58 PM

"In political science, the term banana republic describes a politically unstable country with an economy dependent upon the exportation of a limited-resource product, such as bananas or minerals. In 1901, the American author O. Henry coined the term to describe Honduras and neighbouring countries under economic exploitation by U.S. corporations, such as the United Fruit Company."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

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Sorry, brother. I got distracted. I'll give you a hint.


Jun 24, 2019, 3:13 PM

Most of the aren't fleeing to Africa, India or China.

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Or Nicaragua, or Costa Rica, or Colombia, or


Jun 24, 2019, 4:56 PM

Venezuela, or Ecuador, or Guatemala, or El Salvador, or Mexico . . . because the U.S. is a better country than any of those in almost every way. Same applies to India, China, or anywhere on the continent of Africa.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Sorry, brother. I got distracted. I'll give you a hint.


Jun 24, 2019, 8:01 PM [ in reply to Sorry, brother. I got distracted. I'll give you a hint. ]

Last I looked my friend, it's a helluva lot harder to walk to China or Africa than it is to Texas. :)

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Re: Sorry, brother. I got distracted. I'll give you a hint.


Jun 25, 2019, 8:06 AM

You got distracted too, Felix. Remember those numbers related to what percentage of the world's wealth is owned by 1% of the people? My guess is that probably 50% of that other 99 would come if it were possible. We currently have 500 illegals from Africa residing here since Obama changed the asylum rule.

But, you're right. Thank God for the oceans.

https://nypost.com/2019/04/10/illegal-immigrants-from-over-100-countries-try-to-crack-into-us-every-year-dhs-data/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/illegal-immigrants-from-52-countries-crossed-u-s-mexico-border-this-year-top-official-says




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The only real solution is a long, ugly, haul; it will


Jun 24, 2019, 3:31 PM

require significant investment in these countries by US companies with sustained political support here and there. US govt doesn't do a lot of good just sending money and hoping it all works out, we've got to have some skin in the game and there has to be opportunity for these folks to stay at home an earn a paycheck.

The US is, by far, the biggest trade partner for all of these countries so it's not a stretch to invest in the manufacturing economies there. Say, Guatemala, exports a lot of apparel...instead of US companies buying t-shirts from China, create a manufacturing base (supply chain, too) there; where people can earn a decent wage and US can import a quality product at a reasonable price. How much does it take to ship a container of tshirts from China, how much from Honduras? There is money there, US corporations just need the political support and some incentive to do so.

Security is a difficult issue and, as conservativealex mentioned, decriminalization of drugs here would seriously wound the cartels there. But if you take the economic incentive out of the drug trade, other businesses start to look pretty good the local population.

There are a million bumps and potholes on this road, but it will be hard to stem the flow of migration without some serious investment by the US. And it can't be one-sided either, these countries will have to buy in to the idea and work with us...not an easy thing to do, especially with our current reputation on trade deals. That's one reason I say that US companies will have to take the lead on this and do what they say they are gonna do, plus any corporate action is going to be multiple times more efficient than any government action.

Like I said, long ugly road but it's the only real way to work toward an immigration solution.

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Re: A different question on immigration.


Jun 24, 2019, 4:24 PM

1. Who cares why they are fleeing their countries? Thats not our prob. We are not the problem. The world is chaos. The leaders are corrupt there no matter what we do.

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That's naive. Are you aware how many times the US has


Jun 25, 2019, 3:10 AM

invaded Honduras?

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Re: That's naive. Are you aware how many times the US has


Jun 25, 2019, 7:08 AM

And? That has nothing to do with today or the situation today. That's their prob. Your comment is naive.

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Ok, I didn't get distracted this time.


Jun 25, 2019, 12:52 PM

We control the people of the world by paying off their leaders and regime changes for countries which have leaders that can't be bought. That's exactly what China had been doing to us for 25 years.

We pay them to assist our agenda or get out of the way. Empires must expand to exist. When economic factors don't control foreign nations we resort to the way of the past by military action. One of the issues empires always had was over expanding to the point they could no longer maintain control over territories they conquered.

I believe that is the main reason the framers of our Constitution designed a government which changed leaders pretty regularly and therefor why our system sucks now since congress is filled with people who have spent so much of their lives in congress.

I apologize for all this barely relating to your concerns. Some of the subject we discuss are much too complicated for a forum like this. Our attention span is way to short. My bad.

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