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Replies: 23
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Legend [15492]
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 3, 2019, 3:10 PM
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Got nothing for this as eventually the tariff costs will be passed on to consumers. Where we disagree is on whether confronting China is a good idea, I fall in to the camp of yes it is in fact.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 3, 2019, 3:36 PM
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I agree with you, just I don't think China is the way. At worst, raising the prices will make consumers buy less. The importers, destributors lose money on lost sales and having to pay the tariffs.
Yes, eventually the Chinese manufacturers will lose money, that is until they find other markets to export to. Of course the farmers are already suffering. The problem for them is that China merely imports from other sources. Their is no guarantee that they'll come back once they've established other sources.
Punishing American's to get at China doesn't make much sense to me whether it's Trump, Obama, Clinton, Bush...etc, etc.
People talk about the Smoot-Hawley Tarrif act that created so much damage during the depression, but instead they should look to the Fordney-McCumber Tariff of 1922.
"The Fordney–McCumber Tariff of 1922 was a law that raised American tariffs on many imported goods to protect factories and farms. The US Congress displayed a pro-business attitude in passing the tariff and in promoting foreign trade by providing huge loans to Europe. That, in turn, bought more US goods.[1] However, five years after the passage of the tariff, American trading partners had raised their own tariffs by a significant degree. France raised its tariffs on automobiles from 45% to 100%, Spain raised its tariffs on American goods by 40%, and Germany and Italy raised their tariffs on wheat.[2] According to the American Farm Bureau, farmers lost more than $300 million annually as a result of the tariff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordney%E2%80%93McCumber_Tariff
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 3, 2019, 3:40 PM
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Better now than later when they are much stronger, time to kneecap them is now. It is working too as they are hurting . If this appears to drag on and scores of companies shift production away from China they be up the creek without a paddle. Yes it is gonna hurt a bit here, nothing good ever comes without a bit of sacrifice.
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Legend [18018]
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Then why withdrawl from the TPP?***
Aug 3, 2019, 4:05 PM
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Then why withdrawl from the TPP?***
Aug 4, 2019, 12:29 PM
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TPP did not include China, it did include 2 members of Nafta that Trump had issues with on trade.
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Commissioner [941]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 3, 2019, 5:06 PM
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Not really a blatant lie. It's a mixed bag. In the short term, the importers, distributors and retailers will absorb the tariffs. When the tariffs are "passed along", consumers may pay it … but they just might opt to not buy any of China's junk, and move on. Wealthy folks will pay if they really, really want the Chinese junk … but the tariff's will effectively have no impact on them.
The tariffs that China places on our goods are almost irrelevant because, other than technology, US companies are not big on exporting. Never have been …
The problem is that, over the last three decades the trade imbalance and the Chinese government's "take" of the $$$ generated from the junk sold to us has effectively built their military while ours has declined … and this should scare all of us.
China will hold out, hoping that Trump will lose re-election and they'll keep robbing us blind … and we'll keep d**king around with them only to be rebuffed. The trump card that we're holding … and it will eventually be played … is to CEASE ALL TRADE WITH CHINA! It wouldn't take too many weeks for their economy to totally collapse, and they'll throw in the towel before it does. Mark it down!
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 3, 2019, 6:17 PM
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The idea that if prices just go up, people buy American is false. That will happen with a few items, but not everything.
China is has some inherent advantages over the US, such as geography, that can't be overcome. For instance, Apple can't just decide to make the iPhone in America. If it gets taxed, prices just go up. And considering a single iPhone factory can have hundreds of thousands of employees, they couldn't afford to move it if they wanted to. Plus, their suppliers are over there.
We're not going to tax ourselves to equity with China.
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Oculus Spirit [93645]
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Uck Faple and anyone else who abandons America...
Aug 3, 2019, 10:02 PM
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for cheap third world labor. They certainly can bring their manufacturing home.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Uck Faple and anyone else who abandons America...
Aug 4, 2019, 11:49 AM
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In which American city can they build a factory that has 300,000 employees?
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Oculus Spirit [93645]
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Why does it have to be a city.
Aug 4, 2019, 11:55 AM
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Do you think federal, state and local governments wouldn't jump through their ##### to have a company like Apple build here? Just how naive are you son. Who says they can't split the manufacturing facilities into sub groups.
You have no concept of business because your only business is talking out of turn.
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Heisman Winner [111489]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 3, 2019, 6:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans ] |
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I agree with a lot of what you said, but our military has not declined, that is just laughable. And no matter how powerful our military is, it is and will always be a stalemate with their nuclear weapons capabilities.
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Oculus Spirit [93645]
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I believe the Chinese have gotten a leg up on us in...
Aug 3, 2019, 10:07 PM
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space but I agree, nukes ain't happening.
As for our military in general, imo we have not progressed and developed as much as we could have due to Bush's war spending and Obama not seeming to care as much as our president should. Dems always stifle military spending. I'm not saying that's bad but we need to be first in everything to stay safe.
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Heisman Winner [111489]
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Re: I believe the Chinese have gotten a leg up on us in...
Aug 4, 2019, 11:15 AM
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nukes ain't happening.
I have to disagree, if there is a 1% chance of a nuclear exchange, it is risk the world can not take. And there are people in Pakistan just crazy enough to initiate the launch code towards india.
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Oculus Spirit [93645]
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I was referring to China, Russia and us.
Aug 4, 2019, 11:48 AM
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You're right in a sense but when two nations have nukes the fear of retaliator strikes are as real to them as to us, china and russia. We, china and russia want to control other lands not destroy them.
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Commissioner [941]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 4, 2019, 12:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans ] |
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You're a fool if you don't think the U.S. military has declined. You need to just take a few minutes to see how many ships are not currently sea-worthy, or planes not currently air-worthy … and we don't have enough mechanics to repair them or pilots to fly them. Jesus, man! In one instance an airplane mechanic had to cannibalize a part from a plane in an air museum! In another, a multi-billion dollar aircraft carrier "under construction" can't proceed with sea trials because most of the elevators don't work. Hydraulic systems were replaced with a more efficient system of magnets … except they can't figure out how to make them work. Also, the catapult launching system was replaced with a magnet system … and that doesn't work as well as the "old" and "outdated" steam system. The landing restraint system doesn't work either! And even if this is all resolved, China can take out this carrier with one hypersonic missile for which we have no defense. Our army is tired after farting around in the middle east for 17 years, and our equipment is old … and has been left in place as we try to wind down our involvement in that theater. Hell! At one point, we were actually running out of munitions. Bottom line: If you knew these and other facts, you wouldn't think the situation is laughable!
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Legend [15492]
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Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans
Aug 4, 2019, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: A blatant lie. An intentional deception of all Americans ] |
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I have to disagree Raven, according to the Alliance for American Manufacturing Walmart imports 80% of it's goods. Not sure they'll absorb the tariffs as they've already stated they will pass them along.
And as my grandma use to say "a lie is a lie is a lie". Trump says that "China is paying for the tariffs" by devaluing their currency. According to Neil Cavuto of Fox Business of all places, that is nonsense. He said just yesterday that "were taking in 10's of Billions" from China because of the tariffs. It is a lie. American Manufacturers, Importers, Distributors and Businesses are the one's writing the checks to U.S. Customs, not China.
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Oculus Spirit [93645]
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Walmart and Sam's haven't raised their prices a penny.
Aug 3, 2019, 7:00 PM
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The sky is not falling. The importers and China are bearing the blunt of the tariffs so they can keep the bank open. If China increases prices then others will take their place. Yes, China would rather make less than risk losing its biggest customer to other suppliers.
Now settle down, Chicken Little.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Walmart and Sam's haven't raised their prices a penny.
Aug 3, 2019, 7:54 PM
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The new tariffs don't go into effect until Sept. 1.
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Oculus Spirit [93645]
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We heard the same thing before the first tariffs...
Aug 3, 2019, 9:58 PM
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were levided and the price didn't increase. Imo, anyone who isn't worried about paying for universal health insurance for American and the millions of immigrant women with children crossing the border bringing the burden on taxpayers for handling their one parent family's welfare needs should worry about a little price increase on their Iphone. Even many dems in congress back Trump's plan to get a fair deal with China.
This is how it's going to go, Felix. Trump will get reelected and soon thereafter China will cave and meet our demands. Trump is a businessman and probably will cut them a bit of slack so they can 'save face.'
We knew going into this that it was a marathon and not a sprint. It's been long coming and we need to toughen up and rip the bandaid off once and for all. Get it over with and get on with being the world leader for generations to come.
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Legend [16766]
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It's threads like these that make me chuckle
Aug 4, 2019, 10:21 AM
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Apparently, a fair plenty of folks think politics and business are run similarly. Yeah...not so much. Politics have failed this nation immensely. Of course, we all put the politicians in place, so, the 'Pogo' is on us.
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Oculus Spirit [93645]
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I chuckle when anyone classifies Trump as a politician.***
Aug 4, 2019, 11:50 AM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: We heard the same thing before the first tariffs...
Aug 4, 2019, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to We heard the same thing before the first tariffs... ] |
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Taxing American's isn't the way to resolve trade with China. The first round of tariffs were on steel and aluminum. With stockpiles as they are, consumers aren't going to see a result of that for a while and then only in cars and soda cans.
The latest proposed tariff is on consumer goods. That will be felt fairly quickly, at least that is what Walmart is saying.
Interesting to me that you didn't address the fact that Trump is lying. Or is that as a result of "being cornered" as well? 
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110%er [6101]
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I was expecting a CNN link
Aug 4, 2019, 2:50 PM
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Disappointed
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